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DL To Ground All Dedicated Freighters By Year End  
User currently offlinePHXtoDCAtoMSP From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 17526 times:

In today's earnings release:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Delta-...ts-March-prnews-14981133.html?.v=1

A lot of people are going to be saying "Told you so" (including me)

164 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 1, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 17409 times:

Should be no shock as ALPA was told the ANC pilot base and airman were getting displaced many months ago, and the type was not being transferred over to the single Delta certificate.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8492 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 17360 times:
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not really a surprise , the combination of ageing a/c with the maintenance cost that entails , the necessity for a flight engineer adding to crewing costs , and the downturn in freight volumes due to the economic situation ( plus , IIRC , the loss of a major contract ) meant that the writing was on the wall for the -200Fs . From the nostalgia point of view it is sad of course , but from a common sense viewpoint it was inevitable .


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8090 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 17154 times:
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Ita hard to compete when all the competition operates 744 of one type or another. 742's are musem pieces or Haj flight use airplanes.

User currently offlineRafflesKing From Singapore, joined Mar 2007, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 17125 times:

So will any US pax carriers have dedicated freighters?

User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4360 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 17111 times:



Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 3):
742's are musem pieces or Haj flight use airplanes.

That's a hard word, but you may be true. Maybe add major football charter in Spain.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 17069 times:



Quoting RafflesKing (Reply 4):
So will any US pax carriers have dedicated freighters?

I think that age has passed for the U.S. market.

BTW, anyone feel like sharing a breakdown of the tables shown in the press release? I understand some of it but not all. A basic overview of the numbers I guess.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7504 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 16923 times:

Delta cargo will likely lose a lot of contracts and lose a lot of business. You can't fly that much in a belly of an aircraft compared to that of a 747, I think a lot of you might be surprised that often times your computer parts that are made in china and such are often flown on NW? Oh and whatever happened to Delta saying there will be no jobs loss as a result of the merger... Several people are going to lose their jobs because of this.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offline727forever From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 793 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 16723 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 7):
Oh and whatever happened to Delta saying there will be no jobs loss as a result of the merger... Several people are going to lose their jobs because of this.

You can put that in the same place that you put Andersons comment of "We are not going to be merging with Northwest." When he came to DL.

I think DL would be wise to look at other airplanes to keep the Cargo operation going. Unfortunately time has shown their unwillingness to do this. Once the economy rebounds the air freight industry across the pacific will be going gangbusters once again and DL will not be ready to participate.

727forever



727forever
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 16711 times:

The youngest NWA freighter is past 20, and most are older. If they wouldn´t upgrade to 744BCFs in the next 24 months, Delta would not be competitive right from the start. So its either 744Fs or nothing. Delta opted for nothing, no business, no loss, no win. Shortterm probably a good decision, but how will they review it in 2012? To restart is always more expensive than to endure a period of lean business.

User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6412 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 16669 times:



Quoting RafflesKing (Reply 4):
So will any US pax carriers have dedicated freighters?

Alaska has a 734 freighter. Saw it in SEA the other day.



Next trip: MSY-SEA-GEG-SEA-LWS-BOI-PDX-SEA-LAS on AS
User currently offlineSmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 16651 times:

The article states;

To improve profitability in its cargo operation, Delta will ground its entire fleet of 14 B747-200 freighter aircraft effective Dec. 31, 2009 due to that fleet's age and inefficiency.

Could we possibly see dedicated freighters still operating simply not the 742s? The article as far as I read (which I must confess was a bit of a gloss over) simply states they are grounding the current fleet, and thus we are left to assume ending dedicated cargo ops, but doesn't explicitly say it's the end of dedicated cargo ops, could we see either a wetlease of aircraft or perhaps there are plans in the works to re-equip the cargo fleet? How much detail and how explicitly are they required to make these statements to Wall ST?

There must be a number of cargo aircraft coming onto the market cheaply at the moment seems like a good time to pick up a couple of cheap ones, although I must confess sourcing them and integrating them by December would be quiet the challenge.

Just thought I'd do some 'Optimistic' thinking out load...  

[Edited 2009-04-21 07:30:17]

[Edited 2009-04-21 07:32:40]

User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9964 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 16581 times:



Quoting Burnsie28 (Reply 7):
Oh and whatever happened to Delta saying there will be no jobs loss as a result of the merger... Several people are going to lose their jobs because of this.

Only "several", Burnsie??? I must say this does surprise me, especially as DL has been touting the freighter service to the customers AND there was to be new freighter service from ATL to Asia.

http://www.delta.com/business_progra...g/shipments/atlfreighter/index.jsp


Of course, all they've said is they were grounding the 747F fleet......no mention if the freighter service would actually be cancelled. Maybe they've got something else in mind for freighters, hmm?

"To improve profitability in its cargo operation, Delta will ground its entire fleet of 14 B747-200 freighter aircraft effective Dec. 31, 2009 due to that fleet's age and inefficiency."



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineAcelanzarote From Spain, joined Nov 2005, 814 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 16514 times:

how about using the two 777's that China Southern/Boeing have just
parked on at VCV or MZJ?

Also are one or two load air 747-400F, not getting parked
once finished being built?

Seems a shame to walk away from the cargo completly....

keith



from the Island with sun and great photo's.. Why not visit Lanzarote
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1834 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16391 times:

The optimist in me is thinking that DL would eventually get a handful of the 777Fs for its cargo operation in place of those old hunchbacks due to fleet commonality reasons. With that in mind, the 777-300ER order as a replacement for NW's passenger 744s becomes inevitable.

Hey, one can always dream, right?



All Hail Mighty Triple Seven, The MURDERER of the so-called "Queen"!!!!
User currently offlineTeva From France, joined Jan 2001, 1869 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16355 times:

Have you ever heard of leasing? Why not subcontract lift with airlines like Atlas?, At least until market condition improve.


Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16295 times:

I thought NW's Cargo division was a big money maker. I guess i was wrong. After all, if it is a good money maker, why not keep it?

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3147 posts, RR: 35
Reply 17, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16154 times:



Quoting Davescj (Reply 16):
I thought NW's Cargo division was a big money maker. I guess i was wrong. After all, if it is a good money maker, why not keep it?

It's not. Listen to the webcast.

http://www.delta.com/about_delta/investor_relations/webcasts/


User currently offlineC5LOAD From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16153 times:



Quoting Smi0006 (Reply 11):
Delta will ground its entire fleet of 14 B747-200 freighter aircraft effective Dec. 31, 2009 due to that fleet's age and inefficiency

What about all of the 744s that are parked in the desert? Take those and convert them and they will make you money. Or maybe take a few of the 744s that DL already has and converting them, they are going to have too many widebodies as it is. Just my  twocents 



"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
User currently offlineImperialEagle From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2060 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16107 times:
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Quoting 727forever (Reply 8):
Once the economy rebounds the air freight industry across the pacific will be going gangbusters once again and DL will not be ready to participate.

Yes, it seems hard to believe that NW would continue to operate those aircraft year after year if the were all that uneconomical, nevermind their age. The age argument won't work with DL because the company certainly didn't mind operating the L10's until the bitter end.
Yeah,yeah, I know the times have changed and the circumstances today may dictate it, however I think 727forever is right.

The last time the company dumped its "uneconomical" 747's it then recieved international route authority for which it had no aircraft to operate it .
At great expense the company had to lease aircraft to fill the gap while waiting for its own hastily orderd models with extended range to arrive.

Do I sense history is repeating itself?

If the company plans on being a major player in the future trans-Pacific market, it seems to me it would be wise to maintain a consistent cargo carrying capability.



"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough!"
User currently offlineSmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15934 times:



Quoting C5LOAD (Reply 18):
What about all of the 744s that are parked in the desert? Take those and convert them and they will make you money. Or maybe take a few of the 744s that DL already has and converting them, they are going to have too many widebodies as it is. Just my



Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 19):
Yes, it seems hard to believe that NW would continue to operate those aircraft year after year if the were all that uneconomical, nevermind their age.

I am liking this idea about the 744s in the desert, how many are there and who owns them?

As I said above the statement released did not say that they were ending dedicated cargo ops simply 742 cargo ops.

Once again I will confess to knowing little about NW and DL but why would NW not have done this before the current financial crisis if their operating costs were that high, wouldn't now be the perfect time to lock in cheap lease rates or purchase prices in order to weather out the lack of demand?


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 9964 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15896 times:



Quoting ImperialEagle (Reply 19):
The last time the company dumped its "uneconomical" 747's it then recieved international route authority for which it had no aircraft to operate it .
At great expense the company had to lease aircraft to fill the gap while waiting for its own hastily orderd models with extended range to arrive.

I don't believe DL had any idea that they would be getting those int'l. route authorities when they got ride of the 747's. There was a two year gap there, if I'm not mistaken.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineNA From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15705 times:



Quoting Smi0006 (Reply 21):
I am liking this idea about the 744s in the desert, how many are there and who owns them?

Not that many, but sadly its number is growing fast. There were less than 10 pax 744s out of service by the beginning of 2009. A handful ex-UA birds, 3 or 4 ex-ANA (including the 2 leased to the now defunct Oasis), 2 from BA, 1 from NZ, 1 from AF. Now SQ is retiring the remainder of its 744 pax fleet, which are all pretty young aircraft (most are younger than 12 years). Add to it about a dozen 744Fs and BCFs parked temporarily in the past and coming weeks (SQ, CX, AF, Eva, China Airlines). Almost all of these parked 744s are not stored because they are nearing the end of their useful life, and all that are parked are out of work due to the bad economy.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16939 posts, RR: 48
Reply 23, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 15954 times:

What happens to all the NRT Cargo slots?


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2226 posts, RR: 19
Reply 24, posted (4 years 12 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 16021 times:



Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 14):
The optimist in me is thinking that DL would eventually get a handful of the 777Fs for its cargo


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ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
25 PGNCS : Have you ever heard of a scope clause? While I don't have Delta's PWA in front of me, I am fairly confident that the contract would prohibit outsourc
26 SeaBosDca : Remember, we have no 77Ws at all in the US (other than those which visit from abroad), so we have less reason to stick our nose up in the air at them
27 Alitalia744 : Delta will also be shedding some pax planes in the near future.
28 FlyASAGuy2005 : Really? Given the fact that they posted almost flat 2Q numbers (save the other "expenses"). I'd rather break even than be in the red. What doesn't? Y
29 PGNCS : I think you have hit the nail on the head, although even introducing a more common subtype would still not likely be worth the cost of obtaining very
30 Nwaesc : Actually, that's already happening. Interesting idea. Would most likely take a side letter to do it on an interim basis, but it's been done before (N
31 CHRISBA777ER : No Airbuses then. Thats interesting.
32 Alitalia744 : Its not interesting. Its common sense and has nothing to do with prediction of future aircraft acquisition. Lets not make it an Airbus vs. Boeing iss
33 TISTPAA727 : It would be nice to see some more orders for the 748 (i or f I don't care which). Now that is quite interesting to hear. My guess would be those clos
34 Alitalia744 : Also 763s and 76ERs (older birds) will come offline as intl pull-down happens.
35 CALMSP : I like!!
36 Bmacleod : When did DL have a dedicated freighter service besides acquiring NWA 742Fs? I know they operated 747s back in the early 1970s and had a few DC-10s but
37 Pilotboi : Intl capacity will be cut by 10% starting Sept. Correct. IIRC, the only other freighter-only types that DL has operated are the Curtis C-46 and the L
38 Teneriffe77 : DL did have some C-46's and they were one of the few commercial operators of the C-130 Hercules.
39 Post contains images Viscount724 : DL operated several (3 or 4 I believe) L-100s, the commercial version of the C-130 Hercules, in the late 1960s/early 1970s. DL also operated 5 C-46 f
40 Cubastar : And thank goodness they did! Flying along at 6,000 feet in rainy weather and no radar was not really fun. Also, you got VERY wet sometimes. Some of t
41 USAirALB : Lets see whats next on DLs agenda.... · Closing of CVG/NRT/AMS · Retire all DC-9s, and all 5500 752 · Reduce all Asia flying
42 MaverickM11 : What's wrong with AMS?
43 Mayor : The coming of the Tristars and DC-10's was the death knell for the L-100. It was thought almost anything that we hauled on the Herky could also be hau
44 Post contains links Jetlanta : Can I make a suggestion to you and almost everyone else on here? Don't draw your conclusions from the opinions of a.net members. Instead, listen to t
45 Panamair : Indeed....some little gems of information in there...
46 Mayor : I think it might be interesting to note that in a memo to cargo employees, Neel Shah (vice president of DL Cargo) referred to it as a "SUSPENSION" of
47 Burnsie28 : Maybe some 744F's would be nice and then eventually the 748F. The 747 allows for some very high end cargo to go through since not all cargo can be lo
48 Revelation : It was more of a comment about the corporate doublespeak than DL's particular position. More meaningless doublespeak. It costs them nothing to say "s
49 PGNCS : Or it might not. Don't put too much weight on the word choice. For the forseeable future the Delta dedicated freighters are dead. Yeah, that'll happe
50 Ikramerica : Correct, at this point, the "global economy" has forced customers to create items that do fit in the side door of a 747, either whole or in pieces. O
51 Flaps : Regarding leasing/contracting..... If a sidebar agreement could be worked out, ABX has a boatload of 767 freighter capacity available due to the reduc
52 Acey559 : I like it too, although I think I'd like it better if they put CARGO under DELTA instead of next to it, kind of like they do now with the Connection
53 Phollingsworth : This is reasonable, but the other aspect has been the rise of the ability to carry significant belly cargo on many of the routes that used to have de
54 DeltaL1011man : I'm sorry I didn't believe you. If NWA had the contracts DL wouldn't be pulling the Planes. Period. If Cargo was making money Delta wouldn't be pulli
55 Flighty : I really doubt Delta pilots will want to see a contractor flying such big aircraft under the Delta name. Of course, what you describe would be great.
56 PGNCS : Excellent synopsis. Correct for the pilots anyway. Their contract provides for bidding to another position in the company, although obviously the ANC
57 Lexy : Shame cause I don't think airlines care about a diverse aviation scene. Especially in this crappy economy. I tend to go with your train of thought bu
58 DescendVia : Will these guys be allowed to transfer to DL aircraft if they can hold it or will they have to convert to the NW side?
59 FlyASAGuy2005 : From the podcast, revenue from cargo was down $146M/about 44% on YOY. Another interesting note is bag fees generated upwards of $150M for the qtr alon
60 Ikramerica : I think you missed my point, or I didn't make it clearly. Dedicated freighters are needed for large objects and pallets. But those size shipments are
61 413x3 : it was very much a profit making division until other companies with newer fleets less downtime and cheaper fuel rates outbid you and do better ontim
62 FlyASAGuy2005 : It sure does; answered a lot of my questions. Everything from NWAirlink, DCI, NRT ops (focus on continuing connections rather than overflying), a/c r
63 BinMonster : [quote=Mayor,reply=50]I think it might be interesting to note that in a memo to cargo employees, Neel Shah (vice president of DL Cargo) referred to it
64 DeltaL1011man : Didn't really say much here. Keeping the slots are easy. Put a 757 flight on one of the slots. IIRC DL will have 28 daily 3x weekly slots at NRT and
65 FlyASAGuy2005 : Nothing they said seemed to show that they were in the least interested in re-entering the freighter business. Going as far as to say they will be se
66 SNCntry32 : The 787 coming online was suposed to help bring the 747-400 to cargo ops IIRC. Now that the order is canceled, this obviously wont be happening. I thi
67 DeltaL1011man : sadly. More floor space DL is pissing away. You can blame Boeing. The first 20(IIRC) 787s are next to pointless for DL/NW. Pretty could have replaced
68 Mayor : Well, considering that in the investors' call, they said the freighter fleet would be grounded and the push would be on belly freight, and YET, Mr. S
69 Mayor : And I say that nothing was in the works until the economy started to go downhill. They've been contacting the cargo customers that there would be new
70 Post contains links PSU.DTW.SCE : THANK YOU!!!!! Most people seriously need to listen to the FACTS and not just make stuff up on speculation. They state a number of things during the
71 Nwarooster : What about the two PAX 747-251s? How long will they fly?
72 MaverickM11 : That's a bizarre way to spin it. Perhaps DL has more shorthaul flights, which would be cheaper to operate, but almost 90% of DL's capacity is exposed
73 OA412 : Nuff said. Hmm, not good but then again this is off-season in an economic downturn. Besides, this route will likely take a while to develop.
74 MD-90 : No wonder they're cutting it. That's no where near profitability right now.
75 PlaneHunter : Airlines have to deal with the crisis NOW - it's not relevant yet what COULD happen in 2012. It's very likely DL have evaluated the situation. Out of
76 NA : There is only one left. N623US, the last 747 in the nice classic "bowlingshoe" livery has been retired very recently (within the last 4 weeks).
77 PSU.DTW.SCE : The last pax 742 goes with the 742Fs. They are supposedly going to use 2-3 744's for charter service.
78 Panamair : However the high exposure to Japan also meant that there were very favorable FX effects on the TPAC operation; because most of the operation is Yen-b
79 MaverickM11 : Right. What I meant to say is DL's fortuitous position is pretty much dumb luck and temporary, whereas UA is less exposed to any one single country o
80 Burnsie28 : That was NW's plan. Did you forget about the several hundred NW cargo employee's at the ANC hub. Also no, most of the FE's on the 742 are older than
81 MaverickM11 : Did they *want* you to do that or was that the lowest price itinerary?
82 Burnsie28 : First thing they brought up... so essentually it is what they wanted to do.
83 Mayor : Odd, when I pull up the same flights, ATL is nowwhere in the mix, either with the cheapest fare or by schedule. Matter of fact, the first itinerary I
84 Panamair : Being 30% booked for July is actually quite decent. Normally in the late April timeframe, the average is for JUNE to be 30-35% booked so July would n
85 Jetlanta : Call it what you will, but DL had the chance to buy UA first and chose NW instead. A lot of people wondered why. This is yet another example of why t
86 MaverickM11 : They weren't just buying the Pacific routes.
87 WorldTraveler : If you look at what UA is overflying TO, it is all China - PEk, PVG, and HKG and those countries have been very hard hit by the downturn. Not only ha
88 United1 : Actually UA never gave DL that chance.....UA wasn't willing to give up control to ATL. I don't know why people are finding it surprising that DL is g
89 Mayor : Just because it's been "rumored" here on A.net, doesn't always make it so, even tho it seems to in this case. I still believe that this is a decision
90 Airbuske : And the article says "To improve profitability in its cargo operation, Delta will ground its entire fleet of 14 B747-200 freighter aircraft effective
91 MaverickM11 : They'll be back when the economy rebounds. Japan--there's no guarantee, and they've lost an entire decade after the last downturn and may be in for a
92 Burnsie28 : The one charter aircraft in the bowling shoe was already retired before this announcement and yes the last 742 pax will be retired December 31. Delta
93 United1 : To an extent UA does actually flex capacity between NRT and Non-Stops from the US, an example is TPE which switches back and forth between a SFO-TPE
94 Transpac787 : Given long haul flights, having a SO is actually cheaper, just fyi... S**t rolls downhill. New positions aren't just 'created'. People will fall off
95 WorldTraveler : Have you two missed the thread stating that JAL is asking for even more financial help from the gov't? Japanese airlines are not well. DL could be in
96 GARUDAROD : Whats to prevent DL from signing blocked space agreements with their airline partners, where they take the space but the other airline actually operat
97 Jetlanta : Never said they were, but clearly they were the MOST significant positive network factor. Oh please. Delta walked away from UA, just as CO did.
98 MaverickM11 : And let me guess. You think DL exists in a bubble that is not affected by the revenue environment that is causing problems for JL. Great. It just got
99 United1 : They have started and stopped non-stops from the US twice out of TPE actually. When the economy is up UA operates it nonstop when the economy is down
100 PGNCS : Thanks for the info! I had assumed that the pax 742's would be gone soon, but had not seen that issue specifically addressed.
101 WorldTraveler : Yet DL's RASM over the Pacific dropped less than 3%, the smallest drop on its system and one of the smallest for any carrier on any region and DL cut
102 MaverickM11 : And that wouldn't have anything to do with DL cutting a lot of low yield capacity out of the beaches, dropping CANNRT, NGOTPE, and dropping KIX-every
103 Transpac787 : KIX-TPE Save for KIX-NRT, KIX-GUM, and KIX-HNL. Otherwise you're right...
104 WorldTraveler : since beach capacity doesn't have a whole lot of capacity for much of the first half of the year, yes, it helps. As for KIX and NGO, when the market
105 Burnsie28 : Which is why NW was had planned to replace them with either 777F, 744F, or 748F CAN was dropped before DL took over, NW decided they would rather fly
106 MaverickM11 : What was that higher yield Chinese destination? Great. But irrelevant. YOY DL has cut some of the worst performers out of NW's, and it's own, network
107 WorldTraveler : But NW clearly wasn't willing to replace their freighter fleet at the same time they were deploying an order for 787s which would have been a very si
108 GriffAir : ...and for the record...DAL had an all cargo operation in the late 40's to 1957 with a Douglas C-47 (DC-3) aircraft...cargo only...replaced by a C-46
109 Mayor : Right you are......the first shipment was of tomato plants from Georgia. I couldn't tell you for sure but I believe that those tomato plants were sti
110 MaverickM11 : Exactly. Between that and the foreign exchange benefit, it's not surprising DL's RASM didn't decline as much. AA increased its Pacific ASMs by about
111 WorldTraveler : No they are not. AA operates nothing beyond Japan; even though AA has a small Pacific network doesn't make them more Japan focused. IIRC, DL/NW opera
112 MaverickM11 : All of AA's TPAC routes except for one go to NRT; they couldn't be much more Japan-centric unless they dropped PVG.
113 WorldTraveler : And DL operated barely more than one 777 TPAC per day overflying NRT and DL/NW has a much bigger transpac system. As a percentage of the system, one 7
114 MaverickM11 : OK...so they replaced NRTCAN with the high yield SEAPEK that they're not flying? How does that support your argument that CAN was doing fine? Great!
115 OA412 : And DL being #3 to Latin America has what exactly to do with them being #1 to Asia other than to find something to criticize DL about?
116 WorldTraveler : yes, but from Mrs. Fields. DL didn't say it would be #1 to Latin America with the merger but it did say it would be over the Atlantic and Pacific. gu
117 MaverickM11 : Idunno I was just stating random facts along with WT They said they'd be #2
118 Ocracoke : Does that include the 777, or is that still fenced off, even in this situation?
119 MSPNWA : Is the cargo shutdown really news? It was posted here weeks ago that this would happen. I was already spreading the word back then. But either way, it
120 Nwarooster : You are correct. It was parked for a couple of days and then returned to service.
121 Transpac787 : Existing 777's are still fenced. For any new 777's taken on board (773ER, additional 772LR, or 777F), they are to be 100% NW crews as they will be co
122 DeltaL1011man : So the 18 777s (8 77Es and 10 77Ls) are DAL-S only right? Any 777s that replace the 744s (which any more added will be veiwed as replacement once 15
123 Transpac787 : Only 16x are recognized in the fences, the 8x 772ER's and the first 8x 772LR's. Beyond that, there are no additional 777 fences protecting the DL pil
124 WorldTraveler : Since DL did not comment on any changes to its fleet plan on its recent earnings report, it is doubtful they have placed any order for firm deliverie
125 Burnsie28 : Here was the fencing aircraft 16- 744's 16- 777's 18- 787's Anything new goes to NW guys. Once the SOC's are merged its a free for all with the rest
126 WorldTraveler : You mean if the 744 or 787s are reduced, right? There is no provision for givingnew flying to NW if the 744 and 787 is maintained. Also, what is the
127 Transpac787 : Yes. The fences only apply to the 744 and 787, as well as any other fleet type used to replace them, or taken in their place (777 or A330 in place of
128 Lono : This is how DL rolls... Don't surprise me.... Exactly Very cool.... DL has a bad history in ANC Again... DL is good at this Devastateing Agreed... bu
129 WorldTraveler : And presumably if DL acquires more 77Ls or some Ws, the NW pilots might get first "dibs" on those but then the 787s would be open to anyone at a late
130 Transpac787 : Correct. Let's say that DL announced they are further deferring the 787's two more years beyond SOC, and coupled with this they are taking delivery o
131 Mayor : Just a clarification needed here. DL is not walking away, completely, from cargo.......just the freighter operation.
132 WorldTraveler : It is more appropriate to say that cargo is walking away from the airline industry. When China returns to its global manufacturing heydays, there mig
133 Mayor : For the moment, yes. I do believe it will come back, tho. DL just needs some people in charge (for a change) that have enough foresight, in regards t
134 WorldTraveler : When cargo comes back, I'm sure they will have a plan in place. With dozens if not hundreds of of freighters grounded worldwide, I think DL will have
135 Post contains links Burnsie28 : All Cargo positions to be let go, opportunity to apply for new jobs elsewhere...if only it was as easy as just getting up and moving when you don't ge
136 Mayor : Not ALL cargo positions....just the ones affected by the suspension of freighter service. At least they are being allowed to move elsewhere instead o
137 Post contains links NWAESC : This article says only "40 of 80" cargo jobs in ANC will be lost, but that's not counting displaced pilots, or jobs "attached" to the cargo operation
138 Mayor : I'm assuming they're talking about just the airline employees being affected. One question, tho.....wasn't ANC used as a transfer point, mostly for c
139 NWAESC : Same here, and the "40" still seems low. Correct. A vast majority freighter traffic was east/westbound transfer, but there is still some local volume
140 Lightsaber : Gasp! Only taking in ~2/3rds of the revenue to pay for the flights? That is painful. AGree on both points. (See next reply too): I wish. I'm sure the
141 Mayor : Maybe I didn't hear it clearly, but is that $150m loss for the entired cargo operation or just the freighter ops?
142 Mcdu : Really? So those FedEx, UPS, Atlas and various other freighters that I hear over the Atlantic are figments of my imagination? Just because DL is not
143 Phollingsworth : I am assuming it is for all of cargo, freighter and belly. The issue is that the freighter portion is probably only about 1/3 of the revenue and more
144 Rampguy : DL needs to stick with being a passenger airline and leave the cargo transporting to the cargo carrier giants. i.e. FedEx, UPS, etc.
145 WorldTraveler : As a percentage of the total flights across the Atlantic, there are far fewer cargo flights than there are passengers (combination) flights. That is
146 Bobnwa : The real giants in the cargo transportation business are LH,AF,KE,JL etc. which are all, also passenger carriers.
147 Mayor : Oh, don't be so quick to dismiss DL's cargo efforts. They've done quite well, in the past, with just belly cargo. Know who one of DL's largest Delta
148 Transpac787 : Fedex uses the airlines for same-day service. And don't be so quick to hype this as a DL-only contract - almost all the legacies do it. UA, AA, NW, e
149 Mayor : Nowwhere in my statement did I say it's a "DL-only contract"......just that they were one of our biggest DASH customers.
150 Burnsie28 : Until the worldwide recession, NW was typically very successful with their Cargo Operation.
151 T5towbar : All of the US airlines do it for UPS; FedEx; and the USPS. When it has to be there the same day, no can do it better than an airline that's headed di
152 Mcdu : Sorry but I don't believe it is a stretch to gather that DL is ill suited to take on the cargo giants of the industry. While you and WT may feel bell
153 Mayor : As I stated above, apparently UPS and FedEx can't always move it between airports, so they used the legacies to do this for them on same day service.
154 Mcdu : Maybe back in the 80's but with the proliferation of RJ's the ability of the major carriers to get freight to many cities is almost impossible. The R
155 WorldTraveler : FedEx and UPS do a great job at being cargo airlines but they can't even begin to compete in the passenger side of the business. Remember UPS' attempt
156 Mayor : I think you misunderstand. UPS and FedEx use DL's small package service (DASH) as well as using the small package services of the other legacies. UPS
157 Mcdu : No I understand. But Delta cannot be a major player in the real freight business without the ability to get the freight to places other than a hub. U
158 Bobnwa : Many carriers including Northwest gave up carrying the mail because it was not profitable. This happened quite a few years back. They didn't lose the
159 WorldTraveler : Let's stop right there. DL and most other US passenger airlines DON'T WANT to compete in the full line freight business. Probably for the same reason
160 Mayor : The legacies didn't lose the mail contracts, they chose to give them up because of unreasonable demands by the USPS in the contract. I know in DL's c
161 RampGuy : Yes, I remember that very well. And quite frankly, I thought it was the stupidest thing I saw. What in the world was UPS thinking when they tried to
162 Mayor : Perhaps the delivery drivers made some extra money that way?? Did the F/A's wear brown uniforms with shorts??
163 RampGuy : I don't know what their uniform looked like. Surely there are some UPS folks here that can answer this question.
164 0NEWAIR0 : Ha, yeah I remember that statement. I think it was known then that Anderson came to Delta BECAUSE they were going to merge with NW.
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