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Air Sénégal Folds  
User currently offlineInfomaniac From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 30 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 6 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6591 times:
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It appears that Air Senegal has closed its doors as of today, That makes about 13 airlines that have folded so far in 2009.
http://www.airlineupdate.com/airline...tairlines/defunctairlines_2009.htm

Who's next, I wonder?

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2515 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6549 times:

This is really some bad news but not that unexpected. There was a big outstanding dispute between Air Senegal International and Royal Air Maroc its main shareholder. RAM wanted to divest from ASI because the Senegalese was interfering a lot in the business. The Senegalse goverment said that it was willing to buy up RAM's stake but then overturned its decision. It was then too late as RAM did not want to support ASI anymore. It seems that RAM has seized one ASI B73G it owns. The airline has stopped all operations. Sad to see as this airline had a really good start.

The problem is that doing business is a risky venture in Africa. With government changes, things can change. That's what happening to Virgin Nigeria, BA and DL in Nigeria. That's what is going to happen in Mauritania, as the government wants to launch a new airline along Mauritania Airways earned by Tunisair. Mauritania can not sustain one airline let alone 2...



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineInfomaniac From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6495 times:
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AIR MALTA:

Do you know if the Dash was leased? If so, from whom?

tks


User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 970 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6495 times:

Dosen't RAM have a stake in the company?


seemyseems
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17670 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6383 times:



Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 3):
Dosen't RAM have a stake in the company?

They owned 51%, Senegal wanted to increase their ownership to 75%, and AT decided to completely pull out. Senegal originally agreed to that, but then prevented AT from selling their shares in April, probably as soon as they realized how much money it would drain. In French:

http://www.jeuneafrique.com/Article/...Air-Senegal-est-clouee-au-sol.html



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineInfomaniac From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2009, 30 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6266 times:
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That seems to leave only a couple of ACMI operators plus two small cargo airlines in Senegal. Who will pick up SNG's capacity?

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17670 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6236 times:

Quoting Infomaniac (Reply 5):
That seems to leave only a couple of ACMI operators plus two small cargo airlines in Senegal. Who will pick up SNG's capacity?

Probably French carriers since almost half its capacity (ASM-wise) was in Dakar/Paris. BKO and ABJ were the next biggest and ET/KQ can pick up the slack on the former and KQ on the latter since they alraedy operate it, as well as smaller local carriers. Places like Ziguinchor, Saint Louis, Tambacounda, even Banjul, Nouakchott, and Bissau, however, will be replaced by the taxi-brousse again Smile, at least temporarily.

[Edited 2009-04-24 07:55:20]


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7415 posts, RR: 57
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6219 times:

Quoting Infomaniac (Reply 5):
Who will pick up SNG's capacity?

AF has already replaced its DAILY B772ER by a DAILY B77W on CDG-DKR-CDG ...



[Edited 2009-04-24 07:59:50]

User currently offlineAF022 From France, joined Dec 2003, 2162 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6184 times:

How did V7 do on their DKR-ORY route? They operated 2x daily.

Does anyone know which routes did well (were profitable? had high loads?) and which didn't do well?


User currently offlineUSFlyer MSP From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6137 times:

This is really sad. It seemed as though Air Senegal was one of the few reliable carriers based in West Africa. My sympathies to everyone affected.

User currently offlineRoyalAirMaroc From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5896 times:

So does AT still have a stake in Air Senegal? I've checked AT ' s corporate website and nothing is mentioned. Air senegals website still shows its part of the Groupe Royal Air Maroc.


Life is a Journey, One Which I hope will include alot of Flights !! =]
User currently offlineSoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5712 times:

with many airlines flying into DKR from USA, V7 could have connected many passengers to LOS, ABV. OUA, NIM.BJL, ACC.....


Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlineFlylot From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 187 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5217 times:

It sad to see TE (and I guess Q3) there as all the other airlines (like Air Senegal) were fairly new.


"In Soviet Russia, airplane flies on you"
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17670 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3850 times:



Quoting Soups (Reply 11):
with many airlines flying into DKR from USA, V7 could have connected many passengers to LOS, ABV. OUA, NIM.BJL, ACC.....

They had an agreement with SA--not sure how beneficial it was to either carrier.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAsoRock From Bahrain, joined May 2006, 321 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3807 times:

Perhaps we're about to witness Arik of Nigeria coming to the rescue...operating Arik Senegal similarly to their Arik Niger and Arik Sierra Leone Operations which are about to launch.

User currently offlineRolfen From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3696 times:

Heres some insight about the performance of ASI up to 2004.

http://siteresources.worldbank.org/E...rlname=AirSenegalInternational.pdf



rolf
User currently offlineNYC2TLV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 3587 times:



Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 13):

They had an agreement with SA--not sure how beneficial it was to either carrier.

I fly SA quite a bit and I can tell you that there were plenty of passengers on board that were getting off in DKR and continuing to other West African countries (ABJ, ACC were destinations I overheard people saying they were going to).


User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4342 posts, RR: 35
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3402 times:

Wouldn't the Celestair group with CA du Mali, Air Uganda and Air Burkina be able to start a Sénégal counterpart? If flew them (and Air Senegal) last month and they seemed decent.


nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineAlibo5NGN From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 773 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3079 times:
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Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 1):
The problem is that doing business is a risky venture in Africa. With government changes, things can change. That's what happening to Virgin Nigeria, BA and DL in Nigeria.

Enough of the old cliche's. Your example of Nigerian carriers in this context is wrong. That a foreign carrier invests in a local carrier or country with little competition does not justify the foreign carrier attempting to do business that is disadvantageous to the host country. Virgin Nigeria is an example of what happens when you welcome an investor from hell such as SRB. A major Nigerian Bank is now the majority shareholder of VK and it will soon rebound.

Given a chance, BA would destroy all competition (local and foreign) into Lagos and set up a monopoly. Given a chance, DL will charge high fares for poor service, old and low quality aircraft. Enough is enough. If DL flew early model B763s with no PTV and other comforts on a 9 hour flight, to Malta and it was the only carrier servicing USA and Malta, would the Maltese Government not take action?

Please, please do not lump all African issues under a generic cliche. Air Senegal is unique in that you have Senegal with no funds to set up an airline wanting to have complete say in the running of an airline it does not own. This is a simple business dispute and it makes sense for Royal Maroc to pull out rather than risk it's capital. The loser here is Senegal. Forget Arik coming to the rescue. It has a full plate right now and it definitely will not allow the Senegalese Government to create conditions that may put it's investments at risk.



It takes knowledge to make a career. It takes wisdom to live a life.
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2515 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3001 times:



Quoting Alibo5NGN (Reply 18):
If DL flew early model B763s with no PTV and other comforts on a 9 hour flight, to Malta and it was the only carrier servicing USA and Malta, would the Maltese Government not take action?

Of course not, Malta would not say anything. Malta would be happy to have DL starting services to Malta. Many other countries get DL 763s and BA 744s (New York, Los Angeles, Sydney, Jo'burg) and none of them is making a lot of noise like Nigeria.

As for ASI, please read the history of the dispute and the way the Senegalese has handled ASI as of late. Check also why Air Afrique folded.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17670 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2952 times:



Quoting Alibo5NGN (Reply 18):
If DL flew early model B763s with no PTV and other comforts on a 9 hour flight, to Malta and it was the only carrier servicing USA and Malta, would the Maltese Government not take action?

Have you found ANY precedent for this nonsense? Stop defending idiocy. It's embarassing.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAlibo5NGN From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 773 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 11 hours ago) and read 2756 times:
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Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
Have you found ANY precedent for this nonsense? Stop defending idiocy. It's embarassing.

Prior to 2002, BA used to fly two of it's older B743s to Lagos (One was named the City of Elkton. the other I have forgotten the name). The Government protested and BA introduced the B744 with modern services. It is still the largest carrier int terms of passengers between Europe and Nigeria. All European and Middle East Airlines now serve Lagos and Abuja with the latest Aircraft and the full cabins are evidence that if you treat Nigerians right, they make good customers.

DL has now upgraded it's Atlanta - Lagos service with a B772. Now watch the patronage go up. I am sure that if they offer a B772 or 3 on the long awaited JFK - LOS service, the Nigerian Government will approved it in short order.



It takes knowledge to make a career. It takes wisdom to live a life.
User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5264 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 11 hours ago) and read 2739 times:



Quoting Alibo5NGN (Reply 21):
Prior to 2002, BA used to fly two of it's older B743s to Lagos (One was named the City of Elkton. the other I have forgotten the name).

BA didn't have 743's... do you mean 742's??/


User currently offlineAlibo5NGN From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 773 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 10 hours ago) and read 2704 times:
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Quoting ANstar (Reply 22):

BA didn't have 743's... do you mean 742's??/

Yes! And the name of the aircraft was the City of Elgin. Not Elkton.



It takes knowledge to make a career. It takes wisdom to live a life.
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2515 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 2 hours ago) and read 2566 times:



Quoting Alibo5NGN (Reply 21):
Prior to 2002, BA used to fly two of it's older B743s to Lagos (One was named the City of Elkton. the other I have forgotten the name). The Government protested and BA introduced the B744 with modern services.

You mean the government is now protesting because of facts dating back to 2002 or prior to that. You must be kidding. One month ago, the government said BA uses shabby aircraft when operating to LOS and even forced to change BA's schedules. What kind of explanation do you have for that? What does IB, AZ, LH, AT or KL offer and at what times?

Anyway, this is about Air Sénégal International. And unfortunately, when the government started interfering in the airline business, things started to fall apart. Sad for this once reliable airline.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
25 MaverickM11 : By any precedent I meant any precedent not involving the same corrupt, self serving/defeating Nigerian government.
26 AIR MALTA : It seems now that Tunisair (and May be Air Algérie) is interested in taking over RAM's shares of Air Sénégal International. A delegation of Tunisai
27 Alibo5NGN : Apart from old cliches, what do you know about the current Nigerian Government? I have lived and worked in New Jersey for the past 25 years. New Jers
28 AIR MALTA : Get your facts right. BA has been forced in December 2008 to change their schedules and land in LOS before 18:30 or it risks the suspencion of its fl
29 AF022 : Sorry to be new to the area of West Africa, but what problems did RAM have? Unique to DKR, or unique to ASI?
30 MaverickM11 : Unique to ASI, since their partner was the Senegalese government and it sounds like the government was not helpful, to say the least. AT does just fi
31 AF022 : Probably to take all the DKR-ORY abandonned by ASI.
32 MaverickM11 : Apparently tiny V7 lost 38MM Euros in the last three years
33 AF022 : Did Air Senegal do their own maintenance, or were the planes maintained in CMN? Big loss of jobs if maintenance disappeared, too.
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