Pumaknight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 13504 times:
I was down at Heathrow early this morning to get some photos in great light and weather, before I wen to a meeting neaby. And I witnessed something that shocked me to death!!
A flock of birds (pidgeons I think) flew up infront of a Virgin A340 as it crossed the perimeter of the airfield. The birds struck the plane in a huge explosion of feathers etc. None seemed to go into the engine, but birds, feathers and bits of bird werr raining down from the sky straight after the plane.
I counted at least 10 birds falling with wings broken, or in pieces!!
I have some photos (not brilliant but you can see the strikes). I will post later.
Anyone know if this would cause the plane to be non-operational? Or if it would need a check done??
Probably quite minor in the scheme of things, but shocking to watch it happening through the lens, very shocking!!
Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12677 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 13107 times:
Quoting Pumaknight (Thread starter): Anyone know if this would cause the plane to be non-operational? Or if it would need a check done??
Checks will definitely need to be done, but I can't think it will keep this aircraft out of the sky for long (which is more than can be said for the pigeons!). The engine will need to be checked and some of the fan blades might need to be replaced (which might involve changing an engine - not sure if this can be done without changing an engine); the leading edge slats and areas hit by the birds will need to be examined and of course, a good hosing down. Last thing the next group of pax boarding the aircraft wants to see is feathers sticking out from under the leading edges ...
"Mummy, I thought you said these birds didn't have feathers ... look under there"!
EireRock From Ireland, joined Nov 2007, 301 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12973 times:
There is a specific Birdstrike Inspection procedure which will be carried out by engineers on the ground, checking for damage where impact has occured and also with relation to the engines, if it is suspected that bird debris went into the engine core then a boroscope is usually performed. If a bird did enter the core of the engine it is usually recognisable by a horrible stink in the cabin.
But as Kaitak says above, birdstrike inspections are routine enough and do not usually cause major delays. Also, Kaitak, engine fan blades can be replaced without replacing an engine.
Pumaknight From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 12597 times:
Here are the photos - I wasn't going for any particular shot, just panning with one eye on the view in camera and one eye on the outside to see where the reference point for me to shoot was. So excuse the composition and marginal blurriness. The shots were fired quickly when I realised what was going to happen,
As you can see, lost of birds and lost of bits. Main strike was central fuselage - the feathers and smear at the front of the wing box faring are where a few hit - but there are some over the wings, under the wings...quite gruesome in the flash. Raining entrails for a few seconds after the hit
Anyway here the are full and some crops to the finer points!! Anyone need any other crops, let me know. Click on photos to see them in 1024 wide.
AAMDanny From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 386 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12426 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 3): Or the most damaging. An engine could probably take several and not be badly damaged.
Yes, a friend of mine works for RR here in the UK. They test engines capability of bird strikes by launching dead turkeys/chickens into test engines running at various speeds, to test their endurance. I think he mentioned it was the RR engines found on 767's.
Facinating to know that engines can ingest birds with minimal damage, however as we know it can happen that can cause some severe damage!!
FAEDC3 From Ecuador, joined Jun 2007, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12423 times:
Amazing pictures, thanks for sharing....
now, one question: If one of the engines sucks up a pigeon or two, and is not ingested into the core, does it just go thru the fanblades (damaging them I suppose) but it is consider just a minor incident?
I remember watching a video of the test performed by the RR Trents built for the A380, in which frozen chickens were thrown into the engine to prove that it can sustain certain amount of damage without failing...
SSTsomeday From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 1276 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10704 times:
Quoting FAEDC3 (Reply 13): I remember watching a video of the test performed by the RR Trents built for the A380, in which frozen chickens were thrown into the engine to prove that it can sustain certain amount of damage without failing...
With respect, the chickens would not have been frozen. That would have been similar to the engine ingesting almost large, solid chucks of rock, and would serve no practical purpose because it would not simulate the actual conditions of a bird strike.
I could see them sending specific quantities of measured ice into a running engine, to simulate the A/C encountering a hail storm...
There is a true story of yore, which I have posted before, and I have tried in vain to be reacquainted with the source. It was told to me by a retired Canadian Armed Forces Colonel, a jet pilot and MD, high-ranking official in Canadian Aviation Medicine, but he cannot remember the entities involved:
An aircraft manufacturer or testing body had been engaged in testing A/C for bird strikes. They were using air canons to shoot chickens into A/C leading edges and windshields, always with catastrophic results. They appealed (via old style FAX, as I understand it) to another testing body who had carried out similar research, as to what they were doing wrong. Came the terse reply: "Thaw the chickens."
I have difficulty believing that modern-day Airbus would repeat such a monumental mistake.
SashA From Russia, joined May 1999, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10032 times:
Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 17): With respect, the chickens would not have been frozen. That would have been similar to the engine ingesting almost large, solid chucks of rock, and would serve no practical purpose because it would not simulate the actual conditions of a bird strike.
I actually watched a video with Richard Hammond as the host and they indeed used frozen chickens shot out of a cannon-like launching device.... only they were testing the fuselage material, not the engine. They were kinda demo-ing aluminium VS composite material with aluminium strengthed by fiberglass or smth.
Shankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1550 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 7705 times:
Quoting SSTsomeday (Reply 17): With respect, the chickens would not have been frozen. That would have been similar to the engine ingesting almost large, solid chucks of rock, and would serve no practical purpose because it would not simulate the actual conditions of a bird strike
It would accurately model the condition of a chicken being encountered at FL350.
Great story of Eurostar using aerospace glare shield test techniques on their train development. Chicken after chicken went through the driver cab windscreens. Eventually however it was realized the test chickens should not be frozen.
PlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11789 posts, RR: 60
Reply 24, posted (5 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7005 times:
Quoting LHR777 (Reply 23): Has anyone here actually seen a chicken at FL350? That would be somewhat alarming!
I have, but it was in a box on someones lap
I asked a question a while back now in Tech Ops, concerning high altitude bird strikes. There have been a few apparently, as some birds of prey can easily reach 20-30,000ft, and geese 'cruise' at high altitudes when migrating, some have even been seen flying over the top of Everest, and I can imagine that hitting a goose is a lot worse than a chicken!
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
: Do you think they convert their Tesco Clubcard Points that they get on the frozen chicken (whether the chickens are free range, organic or value) to
: I second that. I'm not questioning that the aircraft & people are most important, however it's quite sad for me to see the dead birds (I tend to love
: Were it an A343 I might agree, but thus here is a superior machine and flies perfectly brilliantly! On another note, wow - those crops are quite grue
: Sea gulls do more damage than pigeons. Ref: Delta NCE-JFK in 22 Nov 07: http://www.breizhspottingteam.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4241 The flight had to
: Article about the FAA and released data on bird strikes. http://www.statesman.com/news/conten.../nation/04/25/0425birdstrikes.html
: I cannot believe what you are saying. Atmospheric temperature drops ~2degC for every 1000ft you go up. At FL300 it's -40degC. Even penguins cannot su
: Tell that to the geese. There are inversion conditions where high altitudes are not much below freezing, and this is likely when you'll see birds tha
: After some searching, I managed to find a video of the ultimate bird strike involving a pigeon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b4TU_R7J3c
: My god!!! Did not know they ate birds?
: They'll eat almost anything, it seems. Back to the subject at hand, though, has there even been a birdstrike on the Concorde?
: Indeed, the A343 lets the side down somewhat! They can do - there have even been a few recorded birdstrikes at over FL300. Birds are pretty amazing c
36 Aer Lingus
: Was it a fast and low approach? Once I was cycling on a foot path and there was a pheasant in the middle. When the thing saw me getting closer it tri
: It was a UCFIW, that is; Un-Controlled Flight Into Wheel. Much blood, decapitated phesant, but enough body carried around and wedged in my forks to t
: Totally. I love the yellow headed, large breast variety personally. I wish that was on Youtube!
: Indeed, they are such fine natural specimins It's probably still on the wall of my old school's staffroom. It happened about seven years ago, hence a