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Allegiant To Start Hawaii Flights?  
User currently offlineHALFA From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1365 posts, RR: 15
Posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6742 times:

An article in our Honolulu newspaper says that Allegiant is considering starting service to Hawaii. I don't know much about this carrier, but I see their aircraft parked on the ramp in LAS. Do they already have aircraft capable of flying to Hawaii from the U.S. Mainland, or would this new venture require the acquisition of new aircraft?

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20090424/BREAKING03/90424041

Aloha,
HALFA


Don't mess with Texas....We just may do that!
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN471WN From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1583 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6719 times:
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I am just amazed that SWA is avoiding this market----we California people miss ATA and Aloha so much and no one can tell me that SWA could not do this run and make money on it.

User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5946 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6691 times:
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As of today, G4 does not have the airplanes to fly Mainland-Hawaii flights, since they only have Maddogs. Now is it possible they may obtain 737-700 ETOPS, 737-800 ETOPS, 737-900ER's, 757-200's/300's or 767-200's/-300's/-400's? I guess that's yet to be seen.

Anyway, Hawaii, Mexico and the Caribbean have been in G4's long-range plans for quite a while.

If Hawaii becomes a reality, it is most likely they'll fly to HNL (maybe OGG). I wouldn't be surprised if they open the route from BLI, OAK, SAN, LAS...where else?


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5545 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6360 times:

Very interesting! This will certainly be a report/rumor to follow...

Quoting Wedgetail737 (Reply 2):
If Hawaii becomes a reality, it is most likely they'll fly to HNL (maybe OGG). I wouldn't be surprised if they open the route from BLI, OAK, SAN, LAS...where else?

These cities certainly make sense: BLI has no service at all to the Islands, OAK, SAN and LAS each have only 1 carrier currently (HA). All of these cities could certainly support multiple carriers (and all have in the past.) Phoenix/Williams could be a possibility but PHX already has 2 carriers in the market so I would place it further down the list than the other places mentioned. And of course LA would be on the list...

Perhaps G4 would also start offering THRU service (1-stop direct flights) from places such as FAT, EUG, COS. Otherwise, I guess they would be offering connections much more than now.

They would certainly need to expand their fleet which I would not have expected but long-range a/c would certainly open up many other possibilities besides Hawaii. So, it does make sense.

bb


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26016 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6294 times:



Quoting N471WN (Reply 1):
we California people miss ATA and Aloha so much

We do?

Even having worked for one many moons ago, I certainly dont miss either one and am quite content with the choice and frequency of flights available to the islands.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6245 times:



Quoting SANFan (Reply 3):
These cities certainly make sense: BLI has no service at all to the Islands, OAK, SAN and LAS

LAS also have Omni Air flights.
This has been discussed previously. Interesting that the HSA has now picked up on it.
I believe the reports in the past indicated possible usage of B757 aircraft.
What is interesting now, there are many widebodies available that could be picked up
rather cheaply. Allegiant is all about the package with hotels, rental cars etc.
If they could bring 200 or 300 people over at a pop, Im sure their cost structure would
run wild with it. One has to look no further than the B777s that Gulf Air was leasing
from Jet Airways. Those planes need to go somewhere. Pick up a nice wet lease
and you dont have to worry about new cockpit crew!



Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
User currently offlineNYCTZ From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6238 times:

^^^ Well i am glad that your quite content with the choice of schedules and service to Hawaii but your comment seems a little snide considering all the people that are still out of work due to these shutdowns. I hope that you are gainfully employed so that you can enjoy all those nice schedules and service!

[Edited 2009-04-24 20:55:51]

User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15810 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6196 times:



Quoting NYCTZ (Reply 6):
Is it me or does that last post just seem a little mean spirited ?

I think so too, but he does have a point about the 757s. I am not sure that 757s would be the best plane for Allegiant now. They have the range, but add relatively little capacity to the MD-80 fleet, and more importantly are rather expensive to acquire. I would try to get 767s that, while not ideal for the G4 model of flying to smaller airports, would be quite useful if they funnel pax through a hub. Also, they could hedge their bets by flying DoD charters.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5946 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6150 times:
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Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 5):
One has to look no further than the B777s that Gulf Air was leasing
from Jet Airways. Those planes need to go somewhere. Pick up a nice wet lease
and you dont have to worry about new cockpit crew!

A 777-300ER in G4 colors??? That would be the bomb! But it will never happen. I think it's either going to be 73H's, 757's or 767's.


User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2568 posts, RR: 53
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6110 times:

The problem I see for Allegiant going to Hawaii is that it simply can't be a 'ultra low-fare' destination: The costs involved with flying ETOPS operations are too high, and don't fit into the Allegiant mold. Look at the low-fare airlines that have tried. Any of them still around? So far, only WestJet, but there's a lot more that have failed, including many more traditional airlines too.

BLI to the islands? Please. Once a week maybe, but that's it. There simply isn't enough people in the area to pull from for any more, especially if the plane is at least a 757 size.

My guess is Allegiant would more likely do a code-share with someone to the islands, and concentrate more on Mexico and the Carbbean, destinations they can service with their current fleet type.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineHAL From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2568 posts, RR: 53
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6095 times:

I forgot to add that the costs involved with adding a second fleet type are enormous, especially if they're doing it only for a small number of planes. It doesn't make economic sense.

HAL



One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
User currently offlineDLHFLYER From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 184 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6085 times:

This sounds pretty ridiculous to operate high cost MD-80's to a low fare destination that is far away. Add all the competition, and this just doesn't seem true. So unless Allegiant invest's in another fleet type, this is really a pipe dream.


Duluth is a nice city, we even get 3 months without snow per year
User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6026 times:



Quoting HAL (Reply 10):
forgot to add that the costs involved with adding a second fleet type are enormous, especially if they're doing it only for a small number of planes. It doesn't make economic sense.

While I agree with you in principle, in this case Allegiant is going to need to transition to a newer fleet type.. probably sooner rather than later. I don't think anyone here would be shocked if they end up picking something ETOPS-capable.

Does that mean they'll serve Hawaii? Dunno.. You're right that their business model isn't friendly to that kind of flying. On the other hand, if they hook up with a travel company (like Pleasant?) and sell packages over their website as they do with their other leisure destinations, it may actually work.


User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2478 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6026 times:
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Quoting DLHFLYER (Reply 11):
This sounds pretty ridiculous to operate high cost MD-80's to a low fare destination that is far away. Add all the competition, and this just doesn't seem true. So unless Allegiant invest's in another fleet type, this is really a pipe dream.

I am assuming you are being facetious, right? Since that IS exactly what they do.

And easiest way would be to just have another carrier operate the flights for them. The unmentioned Omni would be a prime fit, I think. Since they have a following out there now, would be beneficial both ways perhaps.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineAndrewUber From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2528 posts, RR: 40
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5982 times:



Quoting DLHFLYER (Reply 11):
unless Allegiant invest's in another fleet type, this is really a pipe dream.

Obviously a new fleet type is a necessity for G4 flights to Hawaii.

Personally, the 762 seems like a fairly viable choice. There are quite a few of them out there. As BMI said, funnel the pax through LAS and they could easily fill them. There is no need for nonstop Hawaii service from say... Pasco!



I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3142 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5947 times:



Quoting N471WN (Reply 1):

I am just amazed that SWA is avoiding this market----we California people miss ATA and Aloha so much and no one can tell me that SWA could not do this run and make money on it.

There are many flights that WN could do very well in, but its just not the right time.They would have to get make a subfleet of 73G's, make them ETOPS, train ETOPS crew, and add life rafts and other neccesary equipment to make the hop over to HI. This would be an expensive process. I'd love to see it and I have no no doubt that WN could make it work, but knows not the right time.



E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15810 posts, RR: 27
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5940 times:



Quoting HAL (Reply 9):
My guess is Allegiant would more likely do a code-share with someone to the islands, and concentrate more on Mexico and the Carbbean, destinations they can service with their current fleet type.

This is actually more likely. With the economy the way it is I would go with evolution over revolution.

Quoting HAL (Reply 10):
I forgot to add that the costs involved with adding a second fleet type are enormous, especially if they're doing it only for a small number of planes. It doesn't make economic sense.

Small subfleets for long haul flights have historically been disasterous. Just ask America West or Aloha Pacific.

Quoting AndrewUber (Reply 14):
There are quite a few of them out there. As BMI said, funnel the pax through LAS and they could easily fill them.

I don't know if it would be easy. It would be hard to achieve any economy of scale without other outside charter revenue. Furthermore, I don't know how the schedules work out exactly, but remember that each day, only a portion of their destinations are served so relatively few cities can connect. Flying to Hawaii only several times a week would effectively limit what other cities in the system you could connect from as you would have to fly on a day with a Hawaii flight AND a flight to your hometown. I have no in depth knowledge, but I suspect that this would be difficult at best.

The point of my earlier post was that if G4 is really serious about this, they may find that 767s are easier to acquire and may be good to attract other charter business, but I do agree with HAL that Hawaii service would most likely be a long shot.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1993 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 5940 times:

I could see this working through LAS. It's just a matter of adding a plane capable of flying to Hawaii. Don't count G4 out.

User currently offlineJOEYCAPPS From Italy, joined Jul 2008, 206 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5829 times:

Is it just me, or is there a chance that they could be talking about a possible partnership (a-la NWA/KLM) with an LAX-based carrier?

I just can't see flying an MD80 as a possible feat on that kind of flight. And I just can't see G4 expanding to an aircraft capable of flying that route, even though a 732 could.

IMHO, G4 has always been the textbook definition of an LCC: one type of aircraft, a-la carte service, and basically no-frills. For them to get an entire subfleet of aircraft for what, a few flights at most per day? Wouldn't make too much sense, in the given economic climate and its lack of stability.

And besides... the whole LAX-Hawaii thing seems to be popular with FF pax on most airline. Kind of a rewards getaway. I just think there's wayyy too much competition from LAX to most main Hawaiian destinations, served by airlines that have been in existance longer than G4, much less served Hawaii.

Just my two cents.


User currently offlineFalcon flyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 1330 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5801 times:



Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 17):
Don't count G4 out.

Never count Allegiant out, or anyone in this business for that matter. I'm a big fan and very impressed of what G4 has achieved, I just think the timing for Hawaii would be wrong. Plus, on the last several investor calls, a few analysts have been hammering them on the prospect of another fleet type or newer aircraft and the answer has always been a steadfast "unlikely". That answer in itself doesn't rule anything out but they've repeatedly said the average cycles for the MD-80 fleet would allow them to operate for several years. I just don't see in the short term.



My definition of cool ? Not trying so hard to be cool.
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3096 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5644 times:

Where's FATflyer in all this? He usually has good insights into G4's current situation/thinking.


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5946 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5571 times:
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Quoting HAL (Reply 9):
BLI to the islands? Please. Once a week maybe, but that's it. There simply isn't enough people in the area to pull from for any more, especially if the plane is at least a 757 size.

Never say never. G4 does a pretty good job of pulling a customer base from SW BC. So all of the G4 traffic to LAS, Phoenix-Gateway, PSP, OAK, SAN and LAX cater to mostly Canadians who do not want to pay the high taxes/fees to fly from YVR and other airports. So, yes, BLI-HNL or OGG could be possible, even at 2X weekly, with either a 757 or 73H.

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 20):
Where's FATflyer in all this? He usually has good insights into G4's current situation/thinking.

He probably doesn't want to get involved. LOL!


User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 5521 times:



Quoting Falcon flyer (Reply 19):
That answer in itself doesn't rule anything out but they've repeatedly said the average cycles for the MD-80 fleet would allow them to operate for several years.

Indeed... until oil goes north of $100 a barrel again........


User currently offlineAlphaomega From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 581 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5487 times:

MD-80 ETOPS.....cool....

User currently offlineJA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 577 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5426 times:

G4 could simply hire North American or another carrier to do the trips for 12-18 months to figure out if they want to get involved. That way, they don't have to grab expensive new aircraft unless it works.

25 Falcon flyer : In theory, you would think. But Allegiant demonstrated that they could make money with those airplanes even with oil in the triple digits using the r
26 Post contains links National757 : There's an updated article today; don't expect Allegiant to serve Hawaii anytime soon. http://www.starbulletin.com/business...inland_air_carrier_eyes_
27 Post contains links FATFlyer : There really isn't anything new here. Slow news day in Hawaii? Allegiant has said for several years they want to fly to Hawaii, it has been in their m
28 SANFan : I agree completely with you, Wedgetail. The area that BLI draws from, plus the size of the Puget Sound-Hawaii market, combine to make this (and let's
29 Flybyguy : I think the Allegiant business model IS indeed based on buying used planes outright so that they can park them cheaply when they are not in use and f
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