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What Happened To Past Routes At MNL?  
User currently offlineFilAmAirlines From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 139 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3495 times:

I wonder why many routes to MNL has been discontinued (i.e. UA, BA, AF). Yet I'm surprised DL (actually NW), CS, and KL still operate to MNL. I personally blame not just the yields only, but because of the dreaded Terminal 1 (Trust me I was in the Philippines this past summer and flew CX).


FNT is the death knell for MBS and LAN because of WN's commitment
8 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBabaero From Philippines, joined Jan 2002, 468 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

10 years ago on the HKG MNL sector we had CX,BA,PR,EK,Grand,AF,AZ,Canadian and most had 744s on the route or similar large aircraft capacity, I guess with the advent of airline allianzes this helped to reduce the need for so many.Now we only have CX,PR,KA, 5J and Hong Kong Airlines with only CX maintaining daily large 350seat plus aircraft on the route.

With CX having such a major network only 90mins away in HKG, its easy to fly out of MNL ito HKG then basically connect anywhere in the world


User currently offlineCospn From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1653 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3390 times:

Low yields its mostly OCW's and VFR's , MNL is anti forign (T3) investment compared to HKG and SIN that attact most Asia ops. for First class travlers and PAL is dirt cheap with low operating costs on the LAX/SFO-GUM-MNL run, the Guam stops allows for MAX takeoff weight from SFO/LAX so its its a big advantage...

as for asia Air Asia and others at Clark are offering dirt cheap flights to KUL and Clark-HKG


User currently offlineCityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 713 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3241 times:



Quoting FilAmAirlines (Thread starter):
I wonder why many routes to MNL has been discontinued (i.e. UA, BA, AF).

BA decided it would be better to just send their pax onto CX via HKG as they offer more frequencies and also because it would be profitable this way, which BA's own MNL flight apparently wasn't.
AF stopped flying because of the merger with KL. When AF left, KL made some major increases from 4 weekly via KUL, to nonstop daily.

Quoting FilAmAirlines (Thread starter):
Yet I'm surprised DL (actually NW), CS, and KL still operate to MNL.

At first you wonder why airlines are gone, and then you wonder why airlines are still there? Haha.
However, when KL first started nonstops to MNL, it wasn't really sure if the route was profitable. But during later years, the route has turned out really well and sees 4 weekly 77Ws and 3 weekly 772s, flying with 92% load factors. Especially after LH left, KL saw the opportunity to hike the prices and now has a monopoly on the Europe-MNL segment.

Quoting Babaero (Reply 1):
10 years ago on the HKG MNL sector we had CX,BA,PR,EK,Grand,AF,AZ,Canadian and most had 744s on the route or similar large aircraft capacity, I guess with the advent of airline allianzes this helped to reduce the need for so many.Now we only have CX,PR,KA, 5J and Hong Kong Airlines with only CX maintaining daily large 350seat plus aircraft on the route.

But you cant compare by looking at number of airlines. I am almost sure that the number of frequencies (and total number of seats) is much much larger today than it was 10 years ago. Remember that CX, PR, KA, 5J and HK Airlines offers 16 daily flights! How many flights did all those other airlines offer back in '99?
And btw, PR also offers widebody flight to HKG with 300+ seats (on 3 of the 5 daily).

//Alex  Wink



I don't fly to live, I live to fly...
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3230 times:

Dont forget that LH has also dropped MNL...

Quoting FilAmAirlines (Thread starter):
I wonder why many routes to MNL has been discontinued (i.e. UA, BA, AF). Yet I'm surprised DL (actually NW), CS, and KL still operate to MNL. I personally blame not just the yields only, but because of the dreaded Terminal 1 (Trust me I was in the Philippines this past summer and flew CX).



Quoting CityAirline (Reply 3):
AF stopped flying because of the merger with KL. When AF left, KL made some major increases from 4 weekly via KUL, to nonstop daily.

In fact KL not only expanded MNL to nonstop but also recently increased capacity from daily B772 to 3/4 weekly B77W (extra 100 Y seats), which apparently will go daily B77W from the Summer onwards. Of course, it goes without saying that KL B77W is a high-density, low-yielding configured aircraft.

Rgs,


User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3208 times:



Quoting FilAmAirlines (Thread starter):
I wonder why many routes to MNL has been discontinued (i.e. UA, BA, AF). Yet I'm surprised DL (actually NW), CS, and KL still operate to MNL. I personally blame not just the yields only, but because of the dreaded Terminal 1 (Trust me I was in the Philippines
this past summer and flew CX).

Over the years, airlines have changed their route structures considerably. It is interesting to see in this Air France route map from 1958 that they once flew to Calcutta, Rangoon and Manila, but not to Bombay, Singapore or Toronto. Cities rise and fall in importance.

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/af58/af58-02.jpg


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3120 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 5):
Over the years, airlines have changed their route structures considerably. It is interesting to see in this Air France route map from 1958 that they once flew to Calcutta, Rangoon and Manila, but not to Bombay, Singapore or Toronto. Cities rise and fall in importance.

But the fact is that MNL saw a huge change in its operations especially considering the retreat of basically all major European airlines except for KLM.

One of the factors that has influenced this is the heavy presence of Middle Eastern carriers which link MNL with Europe with attractive fares and schedules. The other aspect is the one already mentioned, the yileds in MNL are not great.

Rgs,


User currently offlineRG828 From Brazil, joined Jan 2004, 582 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3097 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER



Quoting Babaero (Reply 1):
10 years ago on the HKG MNL sector we had CX,BA,PR,EK,Grand,AF,AZ,Canadian and most had 744s on the route or similar large aircraft capacity,

Add to that SR and Sabena too, but way way back.



I dont know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everyone
User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3092 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 6):
One of the factors that has influenced this is the heavy presence of Middle Eastern carriers which link MNL with Europe with attractive fares and schedules. The other aspect is the one already mentioned, the yileds in MNL are not great.

Probably both of those are part of the reasons. But also airlines have changed the way they route their flights. In the 1960's to 1990's airlines had to route their flights with multiple stops because of lack of range. So once could fly from DEL to LHR on Pan Am, Bombay to Manila on Swissair, Tel Aviv to Paris on TWA, etc. The route maps looked like spiders webs and many low traffic cities could be included.

In 1963, Swissair made a minimum of 4 stops between Zurich and Tokyo and Manila was one of them!

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttimages/complete/sr63/sr63-03.jpg

Now with the 777, 744 and 343, most flights from hubs are nonstop and if there is not enough traffic for the widebody nonstop, the route just gets dropped.


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