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Mexicana-AeroMexico Merger Perm Talks: MX CEO  
User currently offlineMayaviaERJ190 From Mexico, joined Jan 2008, 333 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 8 months 19 hours ago) and read 4457 times:

Mexicana-AeroMexico merger, we are in permanent talks: Mexicana's CEO Adolfo Crespo.
(Spanish) http://www.milenio.com/node/206645
(Google English translation) http://translate.google.com/translat...206645&sl=es&tl=en&history_state0=

[Edited 2009-04-29 15:04:47]


My other plane is an A380.
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSkyone From Mexico, joined Feb 2001, 438 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 8 months 18 hours ago) and read 4367 times:

Since when is Adolfo Crespo de CEO of Mexicana? He is the spokesperson.
I thought Borja was the CEO.


User currently offlineMayaviaERJ190 From Mexico, joined Jan 2008, 333 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 8 months 16 hours ago) and read 4251 times:



Quoting Skyone (Reply 1):
Since when is Adolfo Crespo de CEO of Mexicana? He is the spokesperson.
I thought Borja was the CEO.

You are absolutely right. The flu's got my head somewhere else. But, anyway, what this means is that this is as official as it can get.



My other plane is an A380.
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 8 months 7 hours ago) and read 4053 times:



Quoting MayaviaERJ190 (Reply 2):
You are absolutely right. The flu's got my head somewhere else. But, anyway, what this means is that this is as official as it can get.

I hope this is "as official as it gets".... if a small country like Taiwan can support Eva and China Airlines, Mexico sure as hell can support AM and MX.

I hope this unfluenza stuff passes soon for Aeromexico's sake, they did not need this right now.... Mexicana is well more positioned to confront this


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3736 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (5 years 8 months 6 hours ago) and read 4043 times:

This merger has never been as needed as it has become now. This calamity is just so unfortunate.

User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8632 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (5 years 8 months 6 hours ago) and read 4012 times:
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I think the topic sums it up very well in the phrase "in permanent talks" .

for as long as I can remember these two have flirted with each other without anything happening , and I dont think it will be any different this time .

Interesting hypothetical question though , if a merger actually happened who would be "on top" ?

if MX came out on top presumably Skyteam would lose a founder member , on the other hand if AM came out on top presumably OW could forget about adding a Mexican member later this year ?

so , hypothetically speaking , who would be "on top" ?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineNAVEGA From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 8 months 3 hours ago) and read 3891 times:



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
so , hypothetically speaking , who would be "on top" ?

I do not think anyone airline would be "on top" as both are very important airlines identified
with the country of Mexico.

I believe that both names would somehow survive eg. AeroMexicana or something similar.

I have long predicted this move and sooner or later I believe it will happen.


User currently offlineKlkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 946 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 8 months 3 hours ago) and read 3872 times:

Would the merged company be in SkyTeam or OneWorld?

User currently offlineHondah35 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 8 months 2 hours ago) and read 3807 times:



Quoting Klkla (Reply 7):
Would the merged company be in SkyTeam or OneWorld?

Probably OneWorld. Between CO, CM, and DL I think SkyTeam would have the region covered. I really don't know what AM's unique role in SkyTeam is right now other than maybe connecting KE pax through LAX. Even though AA has MIA, I think OneWorld could use more Mexico coverage.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26168 posts, RR: 50
Reply 9, posted (5 years 8 months 1 hour ago) and read 3755 times:

Excellent news. I hope such a merger finally happens.

Mexico should have a single strong mainline carrier surrounded by a bunch of LCCs and commuters. Two mainline carriers accomplish nothing except weaken each other.

Quoting Juventus (Reply 3):
I hope this is "as official as it gets".... if a small country like Taiwan can support Eva and China Airlines, Mexico sure as hell can support AM and MX.

Well look at other large countries like France, Spain, Turkey, even Germany which all basically support only a single large mainline carrier.

Quoting Hondah35 (Reply 8):
Between CO, CM, and DL I think SkyTeam

You seem to be forgetting CO is joining Star this fall and seemingly CM will be following it.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineBritmex From Mexico, joined Nov 2000, 207 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 8 months ago) and read 3713 times:

Well....

In most European countries (and Canada too) population limits the market size and usually one large airline can be supported. In Mexico although many people have never flown, air transport is increasingly becoming a choice for all, including migrants. Rather than merging the two airlines, Mexico needs more and bigger airports all around the country. Tijuana, Cancun, Guadalajara, Monterrey and Hermosillo could become international hubs and each airline could develop local markets (actually what has been happening with Mexicana Link and Aeromexico Connect).
I know many of my plans are wishful thinking but anyway, I don´t see both airlines merging. A single big carrier is useless in Mexico since monopolies have been avoided since CINTRA's demise.

cheers



Aeromexico, la linea aerea que va para arriba
User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5236 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3603 times:

No merge!!!

We don't need MX and AM to merge!!!

If MX or AM has to cease operations, let the time, economy, future and strategies decide!!!

We are not Canada, we have more population and a huge US-Mexico market. Mexico can support to big carriers.

Problem for MX and AM is now Volaris, Interjet and Viva that also are going abroad to more cities.

g77



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 971 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3591 times:

If they do merge, I reckon it will be SkyTeam, as MX hasn't actually joined Oneworld, I would rather the new carrier be in SkyTeam, plus AM is a founding member of SkyTeam.

Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
We don't need MX and AM to merge!!!

I agree too, AM and MX both serve different markets and their fleets are really different. I would hate to see either brand dissapear.



seemyseems
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26021 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3213 times:



Quoting Ghost77 (Reply 11):
We are not Canada, we have more population and a huge US-Mexico market. Mexico can support to big carriers.

Mexico's population is larger than Canada's, but far more people in Canada can afford to travel, both domestically and internationally. AC is much larger than AM or MX, and even WestJet which is only 13 years old must now be roughly the same size (possibly larger) than either of the major Mexican carriers. Population and market sizes have little relationship. You have to consider the level of economic development, average incomes etc.

I believe AC also has far more US-Canada flights than any single airline has US-Mexico.


User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1787 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3093 times:

If they do merge, it will be a huge mistake that we will all regret when economy picks up. And believe me, it will. I'm convinced that the potential of this country is huge, and our airlines should be up to the challenge.

User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7633 posts, RR: 42
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3059 times:



Quoting Hondah35 (Reply 8):
Between CO, CM, and DL I think SkyTeam would have the region covered. I really don't know what AM's unique role in SkyTeam is right now other than maybe connecting KE pax through LAX. Even though AA has MIA, I think OneWorld could use more Mexico coverage.

Well, CO and CM are on their way out of SkyTeam.

AM's role in SkyTeam is to cover Mexico, the 15th largest economy worldwide and connect it with hubs such as MAD, CDG, NRT, JFK and FCO.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3048 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
Mexico's population is larger than Canada's, but far more people in Canada can afford to travel, both domestically and internationally. AC is much larger than AM or MX, and even WestJet which is only 13 years old must now be roughly the same size (possibly larger) than either of the major Mexican carriers. Population and market sizes have little relationship. You have to consider the level of economic development, average incomes etc.

I believe AC also has far more US-Canada flights than any single airline has US-Mexico.

Sorry, but your logic doesn't really work. Most of the traffic from the US to Mexico is American citizens and they certainly can afford to travel just as much as Canadians. Plus there are 10 times as many Americans as Canadians.

The 12 million annual pax traveling through CUN last year were predominately foreign tourists. No doubt as soon as the beaches of Nova Scotia start sprouting resorts, airline traffic in Canada will grow, but that will not happen anytime soon.


User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2999 times:

Good to see our Mexican Anetters back "talking airplanes"

Yes sir, keep AM and MX separated....


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26021 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2981 times:

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 16):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
Mexico's population is larger than Canada's, but far more people in Canada can afford to travel, both domestically and internationally. AC is much larger than AM or MX, and even WestJet which is only 13 years old must now be roughly the same size (possibly larger) than either of the major Mexican carriers. Population and market sizes have little relationship. You have to consider the level of economic development, average incomes etc.

I believe AC also has far more US-Canada flights than any single airline has US-Mexico.

Sorry, but your logic doesn't really work. Most of the traffic from the US to Mexico is American citizens and they certainly can afford to travel just as much as Canadians. Plus there are 10 times as many Americans as Canadians.

The 12 million annual pax traveling through CUN last year were predominately foreign tourists. No doubt as soon as the beaches of Nova Scotia start sprouting resorts, airline traffic in Canada will grow, but that will not happen anytime soon.

the original poster seemed to be arguing that Mexico's much larger population than Canada was a reason for Mexico to retain two major carriers. He wasn't referring to traffic between Mexico and the US.

My comment re AC having more flights between the USA and Canada wasn't related to that. It was simply a comparison. As far as I know no airline has as much capacity between the US and Mexico as AC has between the US and Canada. The US-Mexico bilateral is also much more restrictive than Canada-US which is Open Skies.

I would be interested to know how the US-Mexico market compares with US-Canada in total passengers for all carriers, considering the relative combined populations at both ends of the two markets (Mexico's population is roughly triple Canada's).

[Edited 2009-04-30 16:44:51]

User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5236 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 2868 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 13):
AC is much larger than AM or MX, and even WestJet which is only 13 years old must now be roughly the same size (possibly larger) than either of the major Mexican carriers.

True AC is larger and carried 33M pax in 2008, but here we have a few numbers for MX and AM in 2008:

MX 11,543,084
AM 10,093,550
T: 21,636,634

In all, here's the movement for all Mexican airlines in 2008:

1. Grupo Mexicana 11,543,084 (4.6%),
Mexicana 8,288,818 (-7.0%)
Click 3,254,266 (53.5%)
2. Grupo Aeroméxico 10,093,550 (-1.0%),
Aeroméxico 6,869,186 (-11.6%)
Aeroméxico Connect 3,224,364 (32.9%)
3. Volaris 3,363,174 (54.5%)
4. Interjet 3,015,445 (55.7%)
5. Aviacsa 2,708,324 (-19.0%)
6. Viva Aerobús 1,397,010 (14.9%)
7. ALMA 864,129
8. Magnicharters 589,325 (-10.2%)
9. AeroCalifornia 549,125
10. AVolar 494,089
11. Aeromar 438,890 (-12.9)
TOTAL 35,056,145 (2.1%)

Source: Mexico's DGAC

http://dgac.sct.gob.mx/fileadmin/ima...N_MEXICANA_EN_CIFRAS_1989-2008.pdf

If you add international traffic, which was over 20M, you have a big market for over 55M passengers to be flown and constantly growing. No matter our flu problems, CUN will reach the 20M mark by 2016 or before.

We have a different culture, in respect to many civilized countries, a merger would be logical, but here, instead of getting together and built a stronger airline, we prefer to be the way we are. No matter if one or both go bankrupt. Even employee's would refuse to a merger. Honestly, even, numbers are there, and we need one big Mexican airline, this is not going to happen anytime soon... merging... cause in the end I see another Brazilian case but now in Mexico.

It is true income in Mexico is lower vs Canada, but not only Mexico's population fly, in the last decade Mexico has ranked top 10 as one of the most visited countries, this helps, we have the US and Canada on our north... and we speak spanish, many good things from this last resource could be an advantage for AM and MX for all Latin travelers, but if MX and AM are in deep shit is not the country fault, it's their admin fault and the almost 15 years under the government poor administration with no investment at all.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 18):
the original poster seemed to be arguing that Mexico's much larger population than Canada was a reason for Mexico to retain two major carriers.

Population and traffic among all the mexican airport system can make MX and AM to be kept alive and separated. Even thou, they don't have the millions of pax flown and revenue AC is having flying 33M pax a year. But its our culture that a merger wouldn't be the best choice whereas outside of Mexico, it would be the best solution.

In the very end, by 2013, one big airline is going to stay... the other one it will be there but with little to par growth in the market.... you'll see!!

g77



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineGatoVolador From Spain, joined Apr 2007, 435 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2793 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):

Well look at other large countries like France, Spain, Turkey, even Germany which all basically support only a single large mainline carrier.

I disagree. In Spain we have at least two large carriers: Iberia and Spanair. And to a certain extent, Air Europa is a large carrier too, now that they started more non-vacational routes with their Embraers.

On top of that, Vueling, Easyjet, Ryanair...


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26168 posts, RR: 50
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2716 times:



Quoting GatoVolador (Reply 20):
I disagree. In Spain we have at least two large carriers: Iberia and Spanair. And to a certain extent, Air Europa is a large carrier too, now that they started more non-vacational routes with their Embraers.

On top of that, Vueling, Easyjet, Ryanair...

Like I said. Spain has a single core mainline carrier = Iberia. Spainair, Vueling, etc are LCCs that operate at the periphery of the market and are not true network carriers.

Same thing could(and should in my opinion) easily happen in Mexico. A single strong AM-MX combo mainline carrier surrounded by smaller LCCs and regional carriers. I see no way for either AM or MX to prosper in the long term against growth of LCCs and continued strong US carriers by going their own independent ways. Staying independent weakens both carriers, extends the misery at both, and fails to provide Mexico a truly capable and world class airline it deserves and should be able to support.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineNAVEGA From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 741 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2630 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):

I totally agree with your comments....


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26021 posts, RR: 22
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2517 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):
Like I said. Spain has a single core mainline carrier = Iberia. Spainair, Vueling, etc are LCCs that operate at the periphery of the market and are not true network carriers.

Same thing could(and should in my opinion) easily happen in Mexico. A single strong AM-MX combo mainline carrier surrounded by smaller LCCs and regional carriers. I see no way for either AM or MX to prosper in the long term against growth of LCCs and continued strong US carriers by going their own independent ways. Staying independent weakens both carriers, extends the misery at both, and fails to provide Mexico a truly capable and world class airline it deserves and should be able to support.

I agree. That's exactly the situation Canada was in for decades before AC took over CP, when most international routes could only be served by one of the two carriers, meaning Canada had no single global carrier able to compete effectively with their many foreign competitors. Canada's population (now around 33 million) isn't big enough for two full-service international carriers. Many countries with close to twice Canada's population only support one major international carrier, for example France which also once had two before AF took over UTA, and Germany with 2.5 times Canada's population but just one major international carrier plus a few LCCs..

As a single global carrier, AC is in a much better position to compete.

[Edited 2009-05-01 20:54:14]

User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2512 times:

I wonder if AeroMexicana (MexiAero or whatever it will be called) will expand like AC did into much of the US.. AC serves almost as many cities in the US as some US carriers.. the Mexican carriers, OTOH, have minimal presence and only in Mexican dense locations. Just thinking out loud...


Aiming High and going far..
25 Viscount724 : AC mainline (excluding Jazz) also serves more cities in the US (23) than they do in Canada (15). Even including Jazz, total AC cities served in the U
26 XA744 : AeroMexicana, MexiAero... ... Fellows, kindly put your speculations on hold... Tend to think that an AM/MX merge, by all means, could turn into an unh
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