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How Much Does A Wet Lease Cost?  
User currently offlineTFFIP From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 203 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 34012 times:

What sort of sum would LH have paid to BD for the 2 year wet lease of 2 aircraft and crew for Milan and Berlin?

Do the aircraft in a wet lease sort of become like a car hire - meaning are they the part time property of Lufthansa?

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAviationfreak From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1166 posts, RR: 40
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 33733 times:

Well well. I actually think this is a very interesting question. I always wanted to know.

Shame nobody answered the question yet?  Wink

Sander



I love both Airbus and Boeing as much as I love aviation!
User currently offlineDHR From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2007, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 33560 times:

What type of aircraft did they wet lease for the flights?
It all depends on how many hours it was operating for each month.


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15735 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 33558 times:



Quoting TFFIP (Thread starter):
meaning are they the part time property of Lufthansa?

No. They are still BD's planes with their crews and maintained by their people. All they do is fly the Lufhansa schedule with Lufthansa flight numbers.

Such planes (like all leased aircraft) are not counted as assets, and only effect the company's cash flow.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineLobster From Germany, joined Oct 2008, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 33409 times:



Quoting DHR (Reply 2):
It all depends on how many hours it was operating for each month.

True, usually wetlease contracts include a clause stating minimum guaranteed hours (MGH) that the lessee guarantees to pay to the lessor at a fixed rate. Even if the aircraft is not flown at all or below the MGH the lessee is obligded to pay the amount guaranteed in that clause. If the aircraft is higher utilized than the MGH the lessee has to pay in addition to the MGH. Usually the rate for additional hours is lower than the one for the MGH.

Though a rather high level approximation, a rule of thumb for a first guess of the wetlease costs of an aircraft (ACMI) exists: The average ACMI cost per months is somewhere between 500% (new aircraft) and 1000% (old aircraft) of the average market dry lease rate of the respective aircraft.


User currently offlineSandyb123 From UK - Scotland, joined Oct 2007, 1105 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 33370 times:
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Quoting DHR (Reply 2):
What type of aircraft did they wet lease for the flights?

I'm assuming A320 family. Aren't the BD A330's highly utilised on their schedule?

Sandyb123



Member of the mile high club
User currently offlineCaryjack From United States of America, joined May 2007, 322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 33344 times:



Quoting Aviationfreak (Reply 1):
I actually think this is a very interesting question.

 checkmark Me too.

Quoting Lobster (Reply 4):
Though a rather high level approximation, a rule of thumb for a first guess of the wetlease costs of an aircraft (ACMI) exists: The average ACMI cost per months is somewhere between 500% (new aircraft) and 1000% (old aircraft) of the average market dry lease rate of the respective aircraft.

This is a very good start. Now if someone could tell us a little about average market dry lease rates we'd have a clearer picture of wet lease costs.  biggrin  ACMI - ¿Average Cost Monthly Index?  scratchchin 
Thanks,
Cary


User currently offlineNighthawk From UK - Scotland, joined Sep 2001, 5136 posts, RR: 33
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 33332 times:

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 6):
ACMI - ¿Average Cost Monthly Index?

Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance & Insurance I believe.

I'm not sure what year these figures are from, they may be 3-4 years old. Prices are for a dry lease, per month.

A300-600 $160-280,000
A310-300 $145-230.000
A319 $195-310,000
A320 $230-370,000
A321 $250-380,000
A330-200 $560-755,000
A340-300 $470-830,000
B717 $140-195,000
B737-300 $100-190,000
B737-400 $125-205,000
B737-700 $210-310,000
B737-800 $260-380,000
B747-200 $225-375,000
B747-400 $490-885,000
B757-200 $115-250,000
B767-300ER $250-565,000
B777-200ER $650-930,000
MD-11 $300-365,000
MD-82 $35-70,000
MD-82 $50-95,000
MD-90 $80-115,000
CRJ-200 $65-160,000
CRJ-700 $170-225,000
ERJ-145 $80-155,000
EMB-170 $190-215,000
Bombardier Q200 $50-100,000
ATR-42 $70-115,000

[Edited 2009-05-02 02:40:16]


That'll teach you
User currently offlineTFFIP From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 33288 times:

LH have 2 of BDs A319s for London to Milan and Berlin (1 plane on each service - Lufthansa classic and Lufthansa Italia) I think 6-8 sector days.

This must be very good for BD at this moment in time.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 33232 times:



Quoting TFFIP (Thread starter):
Do the aircraft in a wet lease sort of become like a car hire
- meaning are they the part time property of Lufthansa?

A hired car always remains the full property of the particular car hire company......it's certainly never the 'part-time property' of the person hiring it.


User currently offlineTFFIP From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 33228 times:

I guess what I mean is that a wet leased aircraft is at the disposal of the leaser, so those planes will do nothing but what Lufthansa wants for how ever long the agreement lasts (2 years i think)

User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7475 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 33143 times:

Effectively the LH use of a BD aircraft for their TXL-LHR-TXL service - it is an A319 - appears to be the equivalent to a full time ACMI lease. There are three rotations a day - LH1438/39, LH4840/41 and LH4842/43 - that are timed so that they can be operated by a single aircraft that overnights at TXL.

Of course BD has the opportunity of switching the aircraft each time it arrives at LHR but, for example, a single aircraft, G-DBCB, operated all three daily rotations on 25, 26 and on 27 April.


User currently offlineTFFIP From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 33094 times:

G-DBCA used for Lufthansa Italia (MXP only)
G-DBCB used for Lufthansa (TXL only)
Both aircraft are in the process of being refitted to LHI and LH configurations
and interior cosmetics (I believe for certain galley fittings too)
BD

[Edited 2009-05-02 06:01:35]

User currently offlineLobster From Germany, joined Oct 2008, 49 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 33059 times:



Quoting VV701 (Reply 11):
Of course BD has the opportunity of switching the aircraft each time it arrives at LHR but, for example, a single aircraft, G-DBCB, operated all three daily rotations on 25, 26 and on 27 April.

BD should not have the opportunity to do so. Usually a wetlease contract is made for a specific aircraft with the tail number of that same aircraft being in the contract.

Quoting Caryjack (Reply 6):
This is a very good start. Now if someone could tell us a little about average market dry lease rates we'd have a clearer picture of wet lease costs. ACMI - ¿Average Cost Monthly Index?



Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 7):
Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance & Insurance I believe.

Indeed, ACMI stands for Aircraft, Crew, Maintenance and Insurance.

Quoting Nighthawk (Reply 7):
A319 $195-310,000

The latest figures I saw for a 319's market dry lease rate is 160,000 - 295,000 USD / month.

Quoting TFFIP (Reply 12):
G-DBCA used for Lufthansa Italia (MXP only)
G-DBCB used for Lufthansa (TXL only)

G-DBCA & G-DBCB are both from ILFC and build year 2004. Hence, they should be somewhere in the middle of the above mentioned numbers. If I would have to guess I'd say the wetlease cost for the aircraft should be somewhere between 1,3m - 1.5m USD per month each.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7475 posts, RR: 17
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 17 hours ago) and read 32902 times:



Quoting Lobster (Reply 13):
BD should not have the opportunity to do so. Usually a wetlease contract is made for a specific aircraft with the tail number of that same aircraft being in the contract.

This is not necessarily the case. I guess it depends on the terms of the contract. For example because of a cabin crew shortage at LGW, BA wet leased an aircraft from Astraeus for the first three months of 2008.

The lease started on 30 December 2007 with 752 G-STRY operating for BA. Over the following month, depending on the day of the week, Astraeus operated either LGW-EDI-LGW-VAR-LGW or LGW-EDI-LGW-KRK-LGW with a LGW-MAN-LGW rotation sometimes substituted for the LGW-EDI-LGW rotation.

On 31 December 752 G-STRZ replaced G-STRY.

On 1 and 2 January the flights were again operated by STRY.

752 G-OPJB in full Astraeus livery took over the BA flights for 3 and 4 January.

STRY was back operating the BA services on 5 January but was again replaced by OPJB on 6 January before returning to again operate these flights on 7 and 8 January.

STRZ took over the contract on 9 January and STRY was substituted by Astraeus on 10 January and then continued to operate the contract up until 23 January when 737 G-STRF in full Astraeus livery operated the BA flights.

I could go on but think the variability of the aircraft operating this single aircraft contract is now clear.

Of course there will be other examples where only one aircraft is used for the duration of a contract.

Interestingly enough following the end of the Astraeus contract with BA at the end of March 2008 both STRX and STRY that had been painted in all-white colours while intermittently operating for BA:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Stewart Andrew


were operated by Astraeus on a similar contract for BD. However these two aircraft were painted in partial BD livery before that contract started in early May 2008:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Allan Huse
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jens Breuer


and were not switched around with other aircraft during the contract.


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