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BMI In Hot Water Over Maps On Israeli Flights  
User currently offlineSemsem From Israel, joined Jul 2005, 1779 posts, RR: 3
Posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 14815 times:

BMI which started flying to Tel Aviv twice daily neglected to include Israel on it's route maps in order not to offend some other countries it flys to. It seems that Israel is not included on it's inflight maps. Or that their aircraft have 2 different sets of maps which can be changed before departure; one that includes Israel and another one that does not. Anyway this is a Public Relations blunder.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...ename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1082064.html

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineChootie From Germany, joined May 2007, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 14355 times:

Well, things like this can..... but should not happen. I think BD would do good to offer at least a couple of free miles/drinks coupons to those who feel offended. On the other hand, I know EK has given as a gift a world atlas, and the country of Israel was omitted by boundaries and cities. Go figure, the middle east is a Hot Spot and an airline that operates international routes should show it as it is...... all inclusive. BTW people flying BMI should understand that they are serving more than one region, thus welcome to the WORLD.


chootie
User currently offlineSemsem From Israel, joined Jul 2005, 1779 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 14297 times:

Emirates can get away with it because it does not fly to Israel and "technically" both countries are at war with no diplomatic relations.

User currently offlineKL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5085 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 14146 times:



Quoting Semsem (Thread starter):
BMI which started flying to Tel Aviv twice daily neglected to include Israel on it's route maps in order not to offend some other countries it flys to

Yeah, but now it offends Israel, what is more important?? Pffff, what a blunder....



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1732 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 13919 times:



Quoting Semsem (Reply 2):
Emirates can get away with it because it does not fly to Israel and "technically" both countries are at war

Emirates does not recognize the "country" of Israel, so they are NOT at war.

So, what if they dont include Israel in their route map?



لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineSQ_EK_freak From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 1628 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 13767 times:

Out of curiosity, how do the route maps look on El Al?


Keep Discovering
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13623 times:



Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 6):
So, what if they dont include Israel in their route map?



Not sure how to answer your question except to ask, what does the Emirates show on their maps for that particular spot, just an empty spot? Even at the height of WW2, the allies still showed Germany and Japan on the map and likewise.


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9483 posts, RR: 42
Reply 7, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13550 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 9):
Even at the height of WW2, the allies still showed Germany and Japan on the map and likewise.

It's not quite the same. The allies never questioned the existence of Germany and Japan and no-one was offended by the suggestion that they did exist.


User currently offline413x3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13513 times:



Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 6):
So, what if they dont include Israel in their route map?

its a perfect example of the type of backwards thinking that is so prevalent in those countries. interestingly enough, illiteracy is just as prevalent


User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4199 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13510 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 9):
Not sure how to answer your question except to ask, what does the Emirates show on their maps for that particular spot, just an empty spot? Even at the height of WW2, the allies still showed Germany and Japan on the map and likewise

I didn't realize airliners had map displays back in the 1940s...



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offline413x3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1983 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13465 times:

bob said the "allies" not the "airlines"
the point is simple. an extreme lack of respect and arrogance from those countries that still demand to live in the dark ages of thinking


User currently offlineBabyfat310 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13149 times:

That was a bonehead move on BMI's part and is inexcusable. BMI should have the good sense to issue an immediate public apology.

User currently offlineELAL772 From Israel, joined Jun 2008, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12979 times:



Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 6):
So, what if they dont include Israel in their route map?

I think that if they operate 2 daily flights from London it is only logical of them to acknowladge the country in their maps.


User currently offlineSInGAPORE_AIR From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13735 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12981 times:

BMI says the airline asked for the map to be removed once it took over the planes, but there had been a technical mistake.

The airline will provide new maps and BMI will use different aircraft in the meantime for its twice-daily flights to Israel.

Haaretz

Seems more like an oversight than any significant intent to offend?



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12980 times:



Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 9):
Not sure how to answer your question except to ask, what does the Emirates show on their maps for that particular spot, just an empty spot? Even at the height of WW2, the allies still showed Germany and Japan on the map and likewise.

Palestine would be my guess.

Seems to me the simplest thing would be for the Israeli government to ask BMI if they recognize Israel and its right to exist. If yes, then put money where mouth is and show the country. If no then don't show the country, or show it as something else.

What's next? Two different maps for the Americas routes? One that shows the United States of America and one that shows The Colonies???


User currently offlineShamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1587 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 12931 times:

On lots of maps not normally aviation ones, Ireland is sometimes shown to be part of the UK or sometimes not shown at all because of our size. We dont moan and give out about it and to be honest I dont think many other countries would either.

As this is an aviation forum I cant and wont dicuss my views about certain nationalities and their need to complain about any little thing, but this is just a silly thing hardly worth discussing. BMI should just fix the problem, no need for an apoligy it wasnt done on purpose and hadnt got malicous intent.


User currently offlineELAL772 From Israel, joined Jun 2008, 158 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12692 times:



Quoting Shamrock321 (Reply 23):

As this is an aviation forum I cant and wont dicuss my views about certain nationalities and their need to complain about any little thing,

Well seems as if you're doing it anyway. and your views about "certain nationalities" are very clear.

Is this whole thing such a big deal? No, though it's annoying that BMI wants to fly here, advertises in all the big newspapers, adds more flights, but in order to not piss off people flying on their different routes they don't put us on the map.


User currently offlineFlypig687 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12693 times:

It is interesting to note that BMI is afraid to anger their Muslim pax, but what about the Israeli pax, they don't care about angering them?

This is really disgraceful and very unprofessional on BMI's part. As far as comparing it to Emirates, or Qatar Airway, or other world class Mideast Airlines showing Israel that does not make sense. They are owned by the respective arab nations that don't believe Israel exists, if those governments choose to live in a no-Israel lala land than we can not expect the airlines to recognize it. But last time i checked England and the UK does recognize Israel, as should airlines flying under their flag.


User currently offlineBlueFlyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3709 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12872 times:
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I find it rather interesting that this thread has turned from an airline omitting to display a country it flies to on its onboard maps to an issue over whether one ought to be allowed to complain that an airline has omitted to display a country it flies to on its onboard maps.

As far as I'm concerned personally, no one who knows me will say I am a fan of Israel (which doesn't mean I think the country should be pushed into the water either), but I can't help but think, that generally speaking, both membership in the UN and diplomatic ties with other nations have been the benchmarks for over 50 years in determining whether a plot of land should be recognized as an independent country, and it has generally worked well (Taiwan might be a notable exception). On both benchmarks, Israel qualifies as a country for over 50 years, so put it on the map! And if an airline doesn't think that a particular country should exist, then don't fly there, but of course money trumps logic and common sense every time.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineDZ09 From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12537 times:

Why does everything have to revolve around Israel? What is more significant to BMI in terms of business? two flights to TLV a day and several more flights to arab cities.

Have two sets of maps and keep everybody happy, or better yet get rid of all the maps all together.


User currently offlineBwaflyer From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 689 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12459 times:

It's a problem on a couple of the ex-bmed aircraft (bmed never operated to Israel) with the AVOD Thales IFE system. The rest of the fleet are not affected. A memo went out to the crew a few weeks ago asking us not to activate the maps on the specific aircraft when operating TLV. A software update apparently is on the way. The rest of the fleet using the older tape based loop IFE system shows Israel on the maps.

User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1639 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 12445 times:

Let's cut to the chase here. BMI doesn't want to offend a certain clientele, probably passengers travelling to Saudi Arabia, Beirut and Khartoum and others.
Basically, BMI should omit labelling Israel on flights bound for points in those countries. They should make the labelling ambiguos. Possibly a problem when the map zooms in as the flight begins its descent into ALP, DAM and BEY, but not too difficult.
Elsewhere, BMI should continue labelling Israel where applicable.


User currently offlineShamrock321 From Ireland, joined May 2008, 1587 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 11619 times:

Maybe bmi dont care about what the Israeli thinks and know as long as they continue to offer low fares then people will continue to fly with them? The fact is a mistake was made, they have fixed it, no one got hurt so whats all the fus about?

User currently offlineSemsem From Israel, joined Jul 2005, 1779 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10860 times:

To imply that Israel does not exist on "a flight to Israel" is offensive especially in view that some don't want it to exist.

User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (4 years 11 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10631 times:



Quoting Khobar (Reply 19):
What's next? Two different maps for the Americas routes? One that shows the United States of America and one that shows The Colonies???

Have you ever read Air Canada's in flight magazine, enRoute? It has two of everything, not just maps!


25 Jbernie : Maybe we can just drop all the border lines, show the outlines of the continents only and then only show major cities along the way? I am asusming tha
26 MilesDependent : Storm, tea cup Mountain, mole hill With all that goes on in this world, I really suggest people (not just here, but in the wider world) get over the i
27 Shamrock321 : To be honest if any airline included Belfast as part of The Republic of Ireland, most people wouldnt care! Unfortunatley, this topic is gone beyond av
28 Babybus : I wouldn't worry about it. Most people I know call it the Holy Lands anyway. The name Isreal isn't on most of the maps I see. BMI are having enough di
29 Quetzal : [quote=MilesDependent,reply=45]Storm, tea cup Mountain, mole hill[/q Pretty boneheaded on BMI's behalf, but is it worthy of a lengthy political thread
30 STT757 : Why are European and British carriers such wimps?.. There used to be those "KLM Asia" and such liveries they had not to insult the Chinese, and now th
31 Pellegrine : As typical in this region, people blow everything out of proportion and pick and choose facts to elevate their own agenda. As the article says. BMI ac
32 A330243 : Flying on a PIA flight in the mid-90s, I remember the inflgiht map on the A310 called the Kashmir region simply as "Disputed Territory". A similar set
33 DUALRATED : How sad that would be! We here in the states would have to do that for Texas, New Mexico, ....ect. Think about it to suit everyone the whole world wo
34 Zrs70 : BMI is an airline run by a democratic western nation. It should certainly recognize all other democratic nations on its maps.
35 HB-IWC : This thread has largely degenerated into a political discussion, including the occasional name calling. Such discussions are supposed to be reserved f
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