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BMI Wants To Start Baghdad Service  
User currently offlineTFFIP From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 203 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7928 times:

BD is eyeing Baghdad for 2010.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...s-to-start-flights-to-Baghdad.html

[Edited 2009-04-30 10:23:51]

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7876 times:

Not surprised: hardly any competition (at present) and pretty strong demand from business/government and VFR (UK has 350,000-400,000 Iraqis). I wonder the freight demand. It would be interesting to see what fares the market could bear and also what the cost of operation would be.


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19233 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7837 times:

Take a look at: http://www.iraqiairways.co.uk/


"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4922 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7819 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):
Not surprised: hardly any competition (at present) and pretty strong demand from business/government and VFR (UK has 350,000-400,000 Iraqis).

Plus the connection potential, especially from the US

Nice to see bmi taking the initative here



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineDanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1813 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 7792 times:

This could be a smart move by BMI. Like Pearson said, there is little competition and there will be demand for Iraqi's living in the UK to travel to Iraq.


Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4791 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7618 times:

Yields for sure will be high in both J and Y class cabins as would cargo.

Ideally a 3 weekly nonstop A 332 service should serve the demand needs of the market and if UA/AC/LH/CO code share with BD on this flight, it can become a gold mine route for them with yields being possibly higher than LHR-RUH-LHR !!!


User currently offlineElmoTheHobo From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1544 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7533 times:

British Airways applied for the rights to serve Heathrow - Baghdad after the fall of the regime in 2003. Thrice weekly 777 was the plan IIRC.

User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2879 posts, RR: 30
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7418 times:

It sounds like BMI would like to serve Baghdad via a nearby city (Amman was mentioned as a likely candidate). Probably to avoid having crew lay over in what remains an active war zone.


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineTheginge From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7374 times:



Quoting Humberside (Reply 3):
Nice to see bmi taking the initative here



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 7):
It sounds like BMI would like to serve Baghdad via a nearby city (Amman was mentioned as a likely candidate). Probably to avoid having crew lay over in what remains an active war zone.

This idea is not new, well for BMI it is, but BA & BMED were looking at this way back when Saddam's regime was overthrown.


User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3920 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7323 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):
Not surprised

Im not either. This is typical bmi, all mouth and no trousers. They are currently unable to serve Iraq due to UK laws preventing it. So they have nothing to loose by speaking about this service as they have no intention of starting it. While I would love to see bmi prosper and grow, I call this as bmi bull.

Brian.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineBAW217 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2007, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7200 times:

The UK DfT will NOT at this time nor any time in the upcoming years allow any UK Airline to operate to Iraq.

The Department for Transport will allow an aircraft to depart to Iraq, but it is not allow to return back due to security fears, only Military aircraft are allowed to operate to/from Iraq.

The DfT will not allow an aircraft to make an en-route stop on return from Iraq either, so you can't do a double drop eg LHR-SDA-AMM-LHR, it down but not back!

Last time I spoke to the DfT about this they told me they where not going to change thier minds!

I would say the security situation in Iraq will have to change significantly before the DfT revise this rule!


Cheers


User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4267 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7170 times:

Would they be able to get insurance to cover this? After all, as pointed out, its still a war zone. Aircraft coming into Baghdad (nee Saddam) International still have to perform the tight corkscrew on takeoff and landing, I believe. And even when on the ground, its no picnic - there are still plenty of opportunities the occasional insurgent rocket or grenade launcher.

Don't get me wrong, I wish it were safer and I hope there is a safe service. To my knowledge, no transport planes were actually shot down entering or leaving this airport (OK, there was the DHL A300 which returned only more or less intact), but still I wouldn't be thrilled flying in there.



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineMax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7131 times:



Quoting Richierich (Reply 11):
To my knowledge, no transport planes were actually shot down entering or leaving this airport (OK, there was the DHL A300 which returned only more or less intact)

I don't know about more or less intact, granted it wasn't a write-off, but they did have a complete hydraulic failure and had it not been for the incredible skill of the flight crew it most likely would have been a crash.


User currently offlineFlood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7131 times:



Quoting Richierich (Reply 11):
Would they be able to get insurance to cover this?

This was my first thought as well.


User currently offlineTeva From France, joined Jan 2001, 1872 posts, RR: 16
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6860 times:

second question, will they find F/As ????
(remember the topic discussed during the weekend about the FAs in Saudi....

Teva



Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
User currently offlineFRAspotter From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2354 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6840 times:



Quoting BAW217 (Reply 10):
The DfT will not allow an aircraft to make an en-route stop on return from Iraq either, so you can't do a double drop eg LHR-SDA-AMM-LHR, it down but not back!

A bit off topic but this is regarding Baghdad Intl. Airport. Does the Iraqi Government have any intention in the future to change the IATA code from SDA (obvious reference to Saddam Intl. Airport) to something else? The guy's been out of power since 2003 and dead since Dec. 2006, so why would they continue to keep the name?



"Drunks run stop signs. Stoners wait for them to turn green."
User currently offlineAustralis From Australia, joined Feb 2009, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6446 times:

I hardly doubt we will see this route occur in the short term, considering that Baghdad and Iraq is still a hot spot and hardly doubt anyone would provide insurance incase something happens, due to increased exposure.

Sure, the demand is there, but i wouldnt be risking my airline, if i had one, flying there, thats for sure!


User currently offlineKleinsim From Qatar, joined Jan 2007, 154 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6253 times:



Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 15):

A bit off topic but this is regarding Baghdad Intl. Airport. Does the Iraqi Government have any intention in the future to change the IATA code from SDA (obvious reference to Saddam Intl. Airport) to something else? The guy's been out of power since 2003 and dead since Dec. 2006, so why would they continue to keep the name?

I could see BGW which is the city code for Baghdad. As far as I know there currently is no airport named BGW in Baghdad or anywhere else. SDA is currently the only large airport in Baghdad so it seems feasible. Interesting to ponder why they haven't gotten around to changing that yet.

Kleinsim


User currently offlineJimbobjoe From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 658 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6234 times:

Funny, I just read in one of the airliner's magazines about the fact that the A330 glides like a mofo--which is really great in some situations, but it's a major pain in the ass to get down to the ground quickly.

As I recall the Baghdad approach is a deep-descent corkscrew. Can the A330 do that satisfactorily?


User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1375 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6183 times:



Quoting Richierich (Reply 11):
Aircraft coming into Baghdad (nee Saddam) International still have to perform the tight corkscrew on takeoff and landing, I believe.



Quoting Jimbobjoe (Reply 18):
As I recall the Baghdad approach is a deep-descent corkscrew.

This has not been done for quite some time. Occasionally you will see someone do a corkscrew descent, but it is very gradual and deliberate. For the most part all approaches are straight in now..

I still believe that in time you will find more European carriers re-start service to BGW, there is no question the demand is there. But security issues are still a big concern..


User currently offlineStylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 2978 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6150 times:

if you guys are all sure about the huge demand on this route TK must be doing good on UK-IST-BGW?!?! IST-BGW is flown 5x weekly

User currently offlineAnkaraflyjet From Turkey, joined Mar 2007, 267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 4 days ago) and read 5930 times:

BD should consider reinstating LHR-ESB and that could be extended to Baghdad. There is no safer stopover for this flight in the region other than ESB, IST or LCA.

User currently offlineManchesterMAN From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1228 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5581 times:

I guess this service would fly via somewhere else in the Middle East - most probably AMM or BEY I would have thought. In any case nothing will happen until at least this time next year and only if the security situation improves somewhat.

Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 1):
I wonder the freight demand

Pretty good at the moment. There are lots of freighters flying into BGW from SHJ/DXBAMM and a nice slice of this originates UK. Certainly more than enough to fill an A320 belly. At current rates bmi could get around GBP1.90/kg inclusive of surcharges from LHR-BGW.

Quoting FRAspotter (Reply 15):
A bit off topic but this is regarding Baghdad Intl. Airport. Does the Iraqi Government have any intention in the future to change the IATA code from SDA (obvious reference to Saddam Intl. Airport) to something else? The guy's been out of power since 2003 and dead since Dec. 2006, so why would they continue to keep the name?

Most carriers flying there use the city code BGW.



Flown: A300,A319,A320,A321,A330,A340.A380,717,727,737,747,757,767,777,DC9,DC10,MD11,MD80,F100,F50,ERJ,E190,CRJ,BAe146,Da
User currently offlineBennett123 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2004, 7634 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5357 times:

Given the security situation, (which if better is hardly "normal") I have serious doubts about this.

1. Safety on approach and landing when plane is most vulnerable to non guided weapons or take off when most vulnerable to SAM's.

2. Safety of BMI personnel whilst in Baghdad, both flight crew and any ground staff. Can they simply order staff into a war zone.

3. Risk to BMI aircraft, (assuming insurance cover obtainable) and the impact on BMI image if one of their planes shot down.

Incidentally, is the DHL A300 still sitting at SDA or did they scrap it?.


User currently offlineJQFlightie From Australia, joined Mar 2009, 987 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4609 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 2):
Take a look at: http://www.iraqiairways.co.uk/

Just took a look at their website, had a look at the Fleet, and i dont quiet get the advertisment for discovery channels Air Crash Investigation! what airline would honestly want to advertise that in that section of their website?? Also it says a part about how most their A/C ar still grounded all over the world!
So what will the equipment be on the LHR route?



Next Trip: PER-DPS-LOP-CGK-KUL-PVG-LHR, LCY-MAD-VLC, BCN-LYS-TLS-IST-JED-KUL-SGN-CAN-MEL
25 MillwallSean : Demand might be there to Iraq, but I am not so sure about Baghdad, most ethnic travellers can already fly direct to Kurdistan and the security compan
26 OTOPS : WHY? What initiative? They applied for a route big deal. I guarantee none of the top brass at BMI will fly to Baghdad but they will be happy to send
27 Manfredj : I'd say it's much safer than the media would like you to know...if not safer than before the original (Gulf) war. Anyone can shoot down an airplane a
28 OTOPS : You keep telling yourself that. Understatement of the year!! Lemme guess, Fox News?
29 Skyhigh : Any Airline from either Britian or America would be a prime target for the insurgents. Until the Country stabilizes it is probably safer and better fo
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