Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
UAX Ground Handling Up For Review At ORD  
User currently offlineRampRat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1531 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6294 times:

This is off my employee's website. I hope we keep this contract!


Earlier this week, we shared with employees at Chicago O'Hare (ORD) that the company was evaluating options for ground handling services at ORD for United Express (UAX) arrivals and departures. At the same time, we are working with the IAM to review ways to reduce costs under the existing arrangement in which all ground-handling services are provided by United employees. The evaluation will include soliciting competitive bids from third-party service providers.
In 2005, this work was in-sourced from a service provider. Four years later, we are repeating the competitive bid process to ensure that we continue to have the best approach from both a cost and a service perspective in order to remain competitive in a tough economic environment.

The evaluation is expected to take several months. We are working closely with the IAM and our employees at ORD to keep them informed throughout the process.

We have approximately 320 UAX flights a day at ORD, the most of any of our hubs

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDLX737200 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 1905 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6255 times:

Good luck UAX guys!

As someone who just lost his job due to a station contract loss, I know exactly how this feels. Hope it turns out well for all involved.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3205 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 6241 times:



Quoting DLX737200 (Reply 1):
Good luck UAX guys!

Currently UA mainline does all ground handling for UAX ops in ORD, a rather poor decision given UA mainline's terrible ramp performance.

I do hope that OO wins the ground handling contract in ORD. UA mainline handling is a complete nightmare and their on-time and baggage mishandling numbers are staggeringly bad.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25183 posts, RR: 48
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6215 times:

Pretty smart stuff being done lately reviewing all station cost. If UA mainline employees(union) can come up with a deal that provides the right pricing compared to a UAX carrier, or independent vendor then good for them, otherwise expect this contract to walk to a more cost competative providor.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3386 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 6179 times:

This will be a good (relatively) early test for DL141 president Delaney. It'll be very interesting to see how it plays out. Anyone know what sorts of solutions have been put out by either side?


"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineCWAFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 669 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6040 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 2):
Currently UA mainline does all ground handling for UAX ops in ORD, a rather poor decision given UA mainline's terrible ramp performance.

I do hope that OO wins the ground handling contract in ORD. UA mainline handling is a complete nightmare and their on-time and baggage mishandling numbers are staggeringly bad.

You must not have been around when Air Wisconsin did all the UAX ground handling in ORD. It was horrible. SkyWest wanted to bring their own people in at one time, but UA told them they would have to handle ALL of the UAX operation. UA in TUS was recently able to get an agreement with the IAM to cut manpower/hours rather than have the station closed, I suspect this is the same type of deal that UA is looking for in ORD.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3741 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5991 times:

A smart decision to put the contract up for review, especially given the horrible service of UAX ground at ORD.

On my recent flight from FWA-ORD-MCO on UA, I had a tight delay-induced connection at ORD. A freezing rainstorm had just hit ORD, causing major delays. The rampers took their sweet time unloading my gate-checked bag from the CRJ, and I had to wait fifteen minutes in freezing rain. A supervisor came up, and I and other pax who shared my exact feelings were freezing out in the cold asked if we could get our bags, because our planes were about to leave for cities far and wide. Her response? "Well, you could always get back on the plane." Then, she left.

Meanwhile, while us pax were without help, the UAX ORD rampers were chatting, shuffling around, and not doing much. In fact, when one bag fell out of the cart, the rampers let it sit in the puddle of water and they laughed about it. And I almost didn't make my connection to MCO because of this experience. Meanwhile, I flew CO via CLE on the way back from MCO (don't ask me why, but that's how Expedia booked me). What a world of difference.

As always, I would hate to see folks lose their jobs. But, at the same time, there's no excuse for unprofessional service that doesn't fit with a trusted brand such as United Airlines.



Primary Airport: FWA/Alternate Airport: DTW/Not employed by the FWACAA or their partners
User currently offlineXpfg From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 633 posts, RR: 7
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5944 times:



Quoting CWAFlyer (Reply 5):
You must not have been around when Air Wisconsin did all the UAX ground handling in ORD. It was horrible. SkyWest wanted to bring their own people in at one time, but UA told them they would have to handle ALL of the UAX operation. UA in TUS was recently able to get an agreement with the IAM to cut manpower/hours rather than have the station closed, I suspect this is the same type of deal that UA is looking for in ORD.

I'm not so sure OO really cares about this as much anymore. I understand ORD has a lot of flights, but so does DEN. OO ground handles all UAX carriers there now, so things may change.


User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4263 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5891 times:



Quoting CWAFlyer (Reply 5):
You must not have been around when Air Wisconsin did all the UAX ground handling in ORD. It was horrible.

Back in the day, Air Wisconsin was also operating their own flights into ORD for UA so they tended to give ZW flights preferential treatment, or so legend goes. If you look at operational numbers, ZW has the best performance of all the UAX handlers at the moment (Which includes UA Mainline) and ZW is ground handling the UAX operation at IAD at the moment. I think they would have a good chance of landing ORD operations. From what I hear, the OO ground handling operation in DEN is awful.

As long as Delta Global (Or are they part of that new DL connection handling agency now) doesn't get it, it can't get too much worse.


User currently offlineSancho99504 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 570 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5784 times:



Quoting Apodino (Reply 8):
As long as Delta Global (Or are they part of that new DL connection handling agency now) doesn't get it, it can't get too much worse

I disagree with that to a degree. I worked for DGS in SEA for 6 months following DL moving the ground ops to DGS in Sep 05. Most of the folks I worked with on the AM shift were the best guys I've ever worked on the ramp with. Sad that the SEA DGS station manager was an idiot. Of 9 supervisors, only 3 were worth a damn. Of the 12 ALA's only 3 of us knew anything and I had to fight with them to get the ALA spot. However, I can understand why people dislike DGS. The pay is low and the leadership isn't there. However the CO ops at SEA is/was DGS and is well ran.



kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3386 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5723 times:



Quoting Apodino (Reply 8):
As long as Delta Global (Or are they part of that new DL connection handling agency now) doesn't get it, it can't get too much worse.

DGS is still separate from RHS. The latter is comprised of Comair, Mesaba, and Compass...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineOrdflier From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5704 times:



Quoting RampRat74 (Thread starter):
Currently UA mainline does all ground handling for UAX ops in ORD, a rather poor decision given UA mainline's terrible ramp performance.

I do hope that OO wins the ground handling contract in ORD. UA mainline handling is a complete nightmare and their on-time and baggage mishandling numbers are staggeringly bad.

Do you have sources to back this up or is this just your feeling? From your many posts you hardly have any good things to say about United...



ORDflier
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3205 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5643 times:



Quoting Ordflier (Reply 11):
Do you have sources to back this up or is this just your feeling?

Yes, actually. Every day at work they post the numbers for the respective hubs. DEN, SFO, and LAX are always among the top performers, and by a long shot. ORD and IAD are always the worst, and quite pronounced at that.

If you'd like, I can get the exact numbers for percentage on-time, bags mishandled, etc, comparing DEN head to head with ORD if you would like, to make a sharp point that UAX handling themselves is indeed far better for all involved than UA mainline handling UAX. Would that be satisfactory for you??  Wink


User currently offlineToltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3289 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5612 times:



Quoting NWAESC (Reply 10):
DGS is still separate from RHS. The latter is comprised of Comair, Mesaba, and Compass...

I wouldn't be surprised if RHS is being asked to bid on it. Comair has run a big regional hub operation in CVG, Mesaba has run big hub ops in both MSP and DTW. And RHS was set up to be able to bid outside the DL network.....


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5939 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5589 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 12):
Quoting Ordflier (Reply 11):
Do you have sources to back this up or is this just your feeling?

Yes, actually. Every day at work they post the numbers for the respective hubs. DEN, SFO, and LAX are always among the top performers, and by a long shot. ORD and IAD are always the worst, and quite pronounced at that.

If you'd like, I can get the exact numbers for percentage on-time, bags mishandled, etc, comparing DEN head to head with ORD if you would like, to make a sharp point that UAX handling themselves is indeed far better for all involved than UA mainline handling UAX. Would that be satisfactory for you??

And yet despite all of that UA mainline still leads the legacies in on-time performance....

I'm not convinced that ORD and IAD performance has much to do with UAs ramp operations....



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3205 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5574 times:



Quoting United1 (Reply 14):
And yet despite all of that UA mainline still leads the legacies in on-time performance....

Because UAX drags up the on-time figures for the overall system, chief  Wink

On any given day for this week, I can provide for you the on-time figures for both UA and UAX in DEN. Almost without fail, UAX is consistently better.


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5939 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5537 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 15):
Because UAX drags up the on-time figures for the overall system, chief

No.....UA Mainline leads the legacies for on-time performance, UAX isn't figured into that statistic....chief  Smile



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineCWAFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 669 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5520 times:



Quoting Apodino (Reply 8):
Back in the day, Air Wisconsin was also operating their own flights into ORD for UA so they tended to give ZW flights preferential treatment, or so legend goes. If you look at operational numbers, ZW has the best performance of all the UAX handlers at the moment (Which includes UA Mainline) and ZW is ground handling the UAX operation at IAD at the moment. I think they would have a good chance of landing ORD operations. From what I hear, the OO ground handling operation in DEN is awful.

As long as Delta Global (Or are they part of that new DL connection handling agency now) doesn't get it, it can't get too much worse.

I don't disagree with that at all. I've sat in the penalty box more times when Air Wisconsin handled stuff and all the UAX gate planning than I ever have since UA took over. The OO operation in DEN is better than the Air Wisconsin stuff ever was too. When SkyWest operated their first two CRJ's for UA, they were based in DEN. The ops people were bad and the ramp people even worse. The SkyWest operation in DEN is not as good as the operation in SFO and LAX. I don't know if it is a turnover problem or what.

Quoting Xpfg (Reply 7):
I'm not so sure OO really cares about this as much anymore

After taking over nearly all the former ACA cities that supported ORD and then closing them when Comair took over the ground handling, I'd be surprised if SkyWest wants to hire a bunch of people now to take over all the ORD stuff. Stranger things have happened.


User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3205 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5515 times:



Quoting United1 (Reply 16):
No.....UA Mainline leads the legacies for on-time performance, UAX isn't figured into that statistic....chief

I guess that would make us even better then, wouldn't it?  Wink


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5939 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5501 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 18):
I guess that would make us even better then, wouldn't it?

Not really as your comparing apples to oranges....IAD and ORD are the two hubs in UAs system that are most prone to delay due to factors outside of UAs control. That's one of the biggest (although not the only) reasons why UA took the UAX ground operations over in the first place as when issues happen its allot easier to have one companies policies in place for dealing with the weather/ATC then trying to make two (or more) companies procedures mesh.

While I know OO does a first rate job at ground handling for UAX at DEN, LAX and SFO I think you need to be careful in saying that UA does a horrible job on the ramp. UA has been running a VERY good operation as of late and a huge part of that is due to their ramp guys/gals. While it is possible that OO could improve UAX at ORD and IAD you haven't present any statistics to make anyone believe that UAs ramp is doing anything less then doing an extraordinary job at keeping UA on time.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5939 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5491 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 18):
I guess that would make us even better then, wouldn't it?

BTW as a follow up to my post....I looked up the numbers, UA mainline has a better on-time performance ranking then OO or YV do this year....



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineAznCSA4QF744ER From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 691 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5443 times:

First of all I think we should renamed this post to the battle of OO and mainline UA... J/K

Quoting United1 (Reply 19):
Not really as your comparing apples to oranges....IAD and ORD are the two hubs in UAs system that are most prone to delay due to factors outside of UAs control. That's one of the biggest (although not the only) reasons why UA took the UAX ground operations over in the first place as when issues happen its allot easier to have one companies policies in place for dealing with the weather/ATC then trying to make two (or more) companies procedures mesh.

While I know OO does a first rate job at ground handling for UAX at DEN, LAX and SFO I think you need to be careful in saying that UA does a horrible job on the ramp. UA has been running a VERY good operation as of late and a huge part of that is due to their ramp guys/gals. While it is possible that OO could improve UAX at ORD and IAD you haven't present any statistics to make anyone believe that UAs ramp is doing anything less then doing an extraordinary job at keeping UA on time.

United1, I have to agree with you on this. By looking at the recent reports for all four hubs (IAD, LAX, ORD, SFO) and UA is doing very well, ahead of the UAX operations. In regards to OO/ORD operations the report shows ORD is ahead of the targeted goals, just behind LAX.

Quoting Ordflier (Reply 11):
Do you have sources to back this up or is this just your feeling? From your many posts you hardly have any good things to say about United...

I would also think this person is expressing his/her own feeling toward this matter. With the last report for United Express Operations at UA's hubs. ORD UAX Ops is ahead of targeted goals and again just behind LAX but all goals area are well maintained. As a matter of fact ORD beats DEN ops by a few points. By looking at the UAX hubs Comparison Report LAX is the winner in terms of goals, followed by ORD and so on.


User currently offlineDurangoMac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 718 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5302 times:



Quoting Apodino (Reply 8):
From what I hear, the OO ground handling operation in DEN is awful.

UA has actually stated that OO has performed better than any previous ground handler in DEN in every area.

Quoting United1 (Reply 19):
UA has been running a VERY good operation as of late and a huge part of that is due to their ramp guys/gals.

I work with some of the data and OO's biggest headache is ORD and I feel it's because they don't care and try to always blame the crew for the delay.


User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5939 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5297 times:



Quoting DurangoMac (Reply 22):
Quoting Apodino (Reply 8):
From what I hear, the OO ground handling operation in DEN is awful.

UA has actually stated that OO has performed better than any previous ground handler in DEN in every area.

OO does a pretty good job at DEN...

Quoting DurangoMac (Reply 22):
Quoting United1 (Reply 19):
UA has been running a VERY good operation as of late and a huge part of that is due to their ramp guys/gals.

[quote=DurangoMac,reply=22]OO's biggest headache is ORD

Well it is ORD, I can't think of any airport outside of NYC in the US that causes more headaches for every operator.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22926 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 20 hours ago) and read 5019 times:



Quoting CWAFlyer (Reply 17):
I don't disagree with that at all. I've sat in the penalty box more times when Air Wisconsin handled stuff and all the UAX gate planning than I ever have since UA took over.

That's interesting. I've found the gate planning at UA/ORD to be uniformly bad regardless of whether it was ZW or mainline (and regardless of whether we're talking about a UA or an Express flight).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 BHMDiversion : OO doesn't want to ground handle ORD unless more flight activity out of ORD is granted. Plain and simple.
26 DurangoMac : I have it under good authority that OO is going to enter a proposal but they feel that it might be just a way for UA to get IAM to lower pay scales a
27 Dsuairptman : True and it was hell to get them to work with you on anything, (from a UAX DX standpoint). Sounds like typical 'the union makes me invencable' mental
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Gear Up For Ads At The End Of Runways... posted Tue Sep 25 2007 15:06:17 by B777a340fan
Anyone Up For Spotting At STR 22-AUG-2007? posted Mon Aug 13 2007 20:09:05 by HT
Ground Handling Charges For A 737? posted Sun Dec 10 2006 23:47:17 by SvenvdM
A319's For FlyI At ORD posted Sat Sep 10 2005 20:13:13 by PlaneFan
Slate: Why You Get Stuck For Hours At ORD posted Tue Jul 26 2005 23:38:45 by N328KF
More Slots Up For Grabs At DCA..... posted Thu Dec 5 2002 16:19:30 by ONT 737
Plan To Move Lindbergh Home Up For Review posted Fri Jun 14 2002 23:06:05 by Penguinflies
Ground Handling Agents At Heathrow T4 For SkyTeam posted Wed Dec 13 2006 01:50:40 by 8herveg
UAX At ORD posted Mon Apr 27 2009 12:05:12 by Highliner2
Lost Property At ORD For AA posted Wed May 21 2008 04:49:28 by CygnusChicago