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CAW; Feds Should Own Part Of AC  
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5398 posts, RR: 30
Posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2380 times:

The CAW is calling the the federal government to take an ownership stake in AC.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ent-to-acquire-a-stake-in-air.html

"CAW says the government is contemplating changes in airline foreign ownership as a way to for Air Canada to bolster its capital. But the union is pushing the government to take a stake in the carrier, citing successful governmental holdings in flag carriers operating in France, New Zealand and Singapore."

Would this necessarily mean that AC would receive regulatory favoritism over the competition? Is it possible to avoid that?


What the...?
17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 2370 times:
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Quoting JoeCanuck (Thread starter):
Would this necessarily mean that AC would receive regulatory favoritism over the competition? Is it possible to avoid that?

No, but it would mean that the next time the airline is in financial trouble and needs concessions from its workers to survive, they'll run to the government to bail them out. And because the government has an ownership stake, it will likely help out.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineA332 From Canada, joined Feb 2005, 1644 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2327 times:

Just as the Canadian government should NOT be taking any sort of ownership nor forking over taxpyer dollars to the auto sector, airlines should be no different.

Let the strong survive and the weak rebuild/collapse.



Bad spellers of the world... UNTIE!
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5398 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 2307 times:

So what would happen if there is a dispute between Westjet and AC?


What the...?
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2220 times:

The CAW is a dying organization. A throw-back to the 50's where unions ruled the roost and protectionism was the norm. These days are gone. Ken Lewenska (sp?) is an idiot.

Quoting A332 (Reply 2):
Just as the Canadian government should NOT be taking any sort of ownership nor forking over taxpyer dollars to the auto sector, airlines should be no different.

Let the strong survive and the weak rebuild/collapse.

Exactly. Why should tax payers bail out AC (yet again)?



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAirman99o From Canada, joined Aug 1999, 975 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

HELL NO!!! If management cannot figure out how to run a company properly then let them go. Let them do a Swissair, Sabena, and the like!! Close down, void all contracts and come back a stronger more competitive company. Air Canada right now, is a bloated company, with too many people getting paid WAY too much money. I always say, would hate to see people out of work. but their model of business is broken. I don't want any of my tax money going to this airline or any company for that matter where Management have run it into the ground. Hope they ( AC ) and other companies can manage their problems without the countries tax money helping them out. Survival of the fittest, as Darwin put it!!


Safety is Everyones Responsibility.
User currently offlineFallingeese From Canada, joined Apr 2001, 2097 posts, RR: 18
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2135 times:

I made the mistake of reading the article in the Globe & Mail this morning...

The CAW is most certainly a dieing breed and are desperate to get their time in the media spotlight. Their ideas are nothing short of ludicrous and self promoting - a last ditch effort to gain the attention of the Canadian population. Ever since Air Canada changed leadership (goodbye Mr. Brewer) the CAW has been very aggressive in the media. Their fear is clearly that Mr. Rovinescu will adapt his cost cutting strategies that have made him so well respected by many business leaders in the past. If Air Canada were to be owned by the Canadian government the safety of union jobs would nearly be guaranteed.

Ultimately time will tell...but it is just another CAW stunt.



Mark McWhirter...Contrails Photography
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5398 posts, RR: 30
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2071 times:

With the near demise of GM and Chrysler, the CAW has lost a great deal of what little power it has left. AC is one of the last chances at influence it has.


What the...?
User currently offlineDaBuzzard From Canada, joined Sep 2007, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2013 times:

Tha CAW will bleat that they are trying to save peoples jobs, and in a way, they are.

Problem is, the jobs they are trying to preserve are the union leadership.

Government should set the rules and ensure a level playing field for all competitors. They should NOT be competitors themselves.


User currently offlineRobsaw From Canada, joined Dec 2008, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1959 times:



Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 4):
Exactly. Why should tax payers bail out AC (yet again)?

The tax payers haven't given a cent to AC since it was fully privatized in 1989.

But, no, they still shouldn't get any taxpayer $. Open-up foreign investment more, give them more time to make up pension funding deficits, and remove all remaining restrictions that apply to AC (and not other airlines) from the AC privatization acts.


User currently offlineCB97 From Canada, joined Mar 2008, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1930 times:

Why is foreign investment/ownership such a good thing? Would it not be a better idea to keep a Canadian company backed with Canadian investors?


If the new CEO was smart, he'd start by getting rid of the management duds that seem to endlessly screw up the daily operation and make more money than several front-line staff put together.


User currently offlineArrow From Canada, joined Jun 2002, 2676 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 1897 times:
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Quoting CB97 (Reply 10):
Why is foreign investment/ownership such a good thing? Would it not be a better idea to keep a Canadian company backed with Canadian investors?

If you place big restrictions on investment, you cheapen the asset considerably. In Air Canada's case, I as a Canadian would not want to invest in an entity that had to rely only on our tiny market to raise capital. And an airline, in particular, has huge capital requirements.
I think it would be good if all countries took the shackles off their airline industries and let the investment flow freely.



Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.
User currently offlineSkywatcher From Canada, joined Sep 2002, 456 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1840 times:

Why doesn't the CAW use thier strike fund to buy AC? It' would only cost $41 million to purchase a majority stake in AC on the TSX (Toronto Stock Exchange) at current share prices.

That way they could show the world how to make up a $3.1 billion pension shortfall and run an airline with productive employees at the same time.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24786 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1836 times:



Quoting Yyz717 (Reply 4):
Why should tax payers bail out AC (yet again)?

How did tax-payers bail out AC the last time? I can't recall the government providing any financial assistance to AC then.


User currently offlineDaBuzzard From Canada, joined Sep 2007, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1803 times:



Quoting Skywatcher (Reply 12):
Why doesn't the CAW use thier strike fund to buy AC? It' would only cost $41 million to purchase a majority stake in AC on the TSX (Toronto Stock Exchange) at current share prices.

That way they could show the world how to make up a $3.1 billion pension shortfall and run an airline with productive employees at the same time.

Now THAT I would pay to see.

If they made it work I would have to totally change my opinion on the CAW. Don't think I will be doing that any time soon though  Wink


User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4113 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1785 times:



Quoting Robsaw (Reply 9):
The tax payers haven't given a cent to AC since it was fully privatized in 1989.



Quoting CB97 (Reply 10):
Why is foreign investment/ownership such a good thing? Would it not be a better idea to keep a Canadian company backed with Canadian investors?

They were given tax breaks and had the protection of the government regulations barring foreign ownership when ONEX wanted to purchase the airline back when CP wanted to buy AC.

Why should taxpayers be in the airline business. Does that mean we, the Canadian tax payer, should get non rev tickets then as owners? We already are in possession of a failing Auto company that seems to be unwanted by the general public, a German Auto manufacturer, and a Capital management company. We already owned it once and I for one don't want to own it again.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 1714 times:

The NDP (Canada's far left of center Socialist Coalition) has made it clear over the last two decades that AC should be returned to being a fully owned federal crown corporation, and no doubt want WS under the same federal owned umbrella. Socialism is their core belief, and the fact that the CAW is behind this clearly shows organized labour has the same agenda they had decades ago. These people want North America to look like the U.K. did under successive Labour regimes prior to Margaret Thatcher.


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineCB97 From Canada, joined Mar 2008, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 1646 times:

But why is having limits on foreign investment a bad thing? Do foreign investors really understand the unique environment that Canadian airlines must operate in and why it is important to have air service to all the small communities the airlines currently serve? There was an analyst saying not that long ago that AC should stop flying 2/3 of its routes to become profitable, which means it would end up flying the the Toronto corridor and a few trans-cons. How does that serve the greater Canadian public? AC won't need our tax dollars, but they won't be serving the vast majority of the population either! How would the Canadian public feel one day if they woke up and suddenly had no more air service to places like Wabush or Terrance, or even any city under half a million because investors who live oceans away didn't think it was making enough profits?

Maybe I'm jaded because I grew up in a part of the country where we've had a lot of our industries decimated by people who live thousands of miles away and don't actually understand them beyond what the balance sheets say...


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