Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Rumor: USA 3000....the Next "Eastern?"  
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 19604 times:

Take it with a grain of salt, but I have heard rumours that the Miami-based investment group that has acquired the Eastern Air Lines name is in talks to take over a large stake (at least 51%) in Apple Vacations/USA 3000. The plan would be to effectively shut-down USA 3000 as we know it, re-brand the airline Eastern Airlines and re-deploy the fleet on short/medium-haul international and domestic flying from MIA.

It sounds absolutely ridiculous and far-fetched, but I wouldn't be repeating it if I didn't think it had some sort of validity.

Now is not the time to launch a brand new airline, but in this economy, maybe it is a good time to re-brand an airline that focuses on a very struggling market - middle-class leisure travelers - to one that focuses on a market that remains very robust - ethnic traffic to the Caribbean/Latin America.

The investment group is led by Edward Wegel (who has worked at ASA, Mesa and BWIA), and has already received approval for over $6,000,000 in incentives from Miami-Dade County pending job creation.

[Edited 2009-05-04 17:20:47]


a.
52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1522 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 19545 times:

Mark,
Would that effectively bypass the certification process with the D.O.T.?
What about route authority? Would they have to reapply for any route they
intend to fly, or could they transfer any routes currently held by USA3000?



Cargo doesn't whine, moan, or complain
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 19497 times:



Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 1):
Mark,
Would that effectively bypass the certification process with the D.O.T.?
What about route authority? Would they have to reapply for any route they
intend to fly, or could they transfer any routes currently held by USA3000?

Yes, if this were to happen, the carrier would use USA 3000's AOC, bypassing certification. Route authorities effectively transfer, there might be a DOT notification procedure, but nothing that would make USA 3000 give anything up.



a.
User currently offlineMke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2462 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 19500 times:

Let's hope not, I've flown U5 out of MKE a few times and they were great. It'd be a shame to see them go. Who would step in and fly the routes to CUN, PUJ, MBJ, etc. if this goes through? (I'm talking all cities, not just MKE)


Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 19403 times:



Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 3):
Who would step in and fly the routes to CUN, PUJ, MBJ, etc. if this goes through? (I'm talking all cities, not just MKE)

Nobody right now.

Markets from the Midwest to holiday destinations, catering to middle-class leisure flyers, are suffering.



a.
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7556 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 19286 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Thread starter):
Take it with a grain of salt, but I have heard rumours that the Miami-based investment group that has acquired the Eastern Air Lines name is in talks to take over a large stake (at least 51%) in Apple Vacations/USA 3000. The plan would be to effectively shut-down USA 3000 as we know it, re-brand the airline Eastern Airlines and re-deploy the fleet on short/medium-haul international and domestic flying from MIA.

USA3000 has been hanging by its fingernails for a while and they have few airplanes at this point so it's not that big of a deal. I suspect any sale would only include USA3000 and not Apple.


User currently offlineGlobalflyer From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 940 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 19283 times:

This totally makes sense. Ed Wegel is scheduled to speak at the World Low Cost Airlines Forum (Terrapinn sponsored event) in South Florida in November. Terrapinn is the most reputable event organization out there and get CEO levels to present. I thought it odd that when they sent out their brochure that they listed Eastern Air Lines and Air Gumbo as airlines in attendance and their CEO's as speakers! I am a former Eastern Air Lines employee and would love nothing more than to see the Great Silver Fleet grace the skies again but just do not want it to end up like the terrible Braniff and Pan Am reincarnations that tarnished those great names. You are correct...it could not be a worse time to start an airline. Eastern was my first job and first love. Let;s hope this outfit is serious and not a fly by night!


Landing on every Continent almost on an annual basis!
User currently offlineJHM01 From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 16697 times:

An A320 in Eastern colors would be a site to see.

User currently offlineTISTPAA727 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 330 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16256 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Regardless of this concepts viability, I for one would love to see Eastern's colors flying again (not the white scheme but the bare metal w/ stripes). I used to love flying the 727 and 757 on Eastern in the 80's when my family lived in St. Thomas. Seeing that livery again would bring back great memories.

I wonder if they would have to use the white paint scheme because of the A320s...



Don't sweat the little things.
User currently offlineRevo1059 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16239 times:

Ugh, this was tried before in the 90's with Private Jet and National Airlines. The only thing left of that is the coffee mug I have sitting in my cabinet.

User currently offlineA300 American From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16158 times:

I can't see Apply Vacations selling the airline that feeds their passengers to their destinations, sure the economy is terrible now, but in my opinion, doesn't make a whole lot of sense letting U5 go. I know the commercial business is very slow, but U5, I believe mostly runs on charter flights...........Better days are ahead for them. U5 has excellent service, I would hate to see them go............although I would love to see Eastern fly again, I know it won't happen (at least not the way we all envision it).

User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7556 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16059 times:



Quoting A300 American (Reply 10):
I can't see Apply Vacations selling the airline that feeds their passengers to their destinations,

Oh I can. Apple has been backing out of charters for a while now and focusing on just using the scheduled airlines. The VAST majority of Funjet/MLT/Apple passengers are no longer using charter lift.


User currently offlineDingDong From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 16059 times:

Where's Frank Lorenzo when you need him? He's certainly not too old today to see another airline through failure should the need arise.


DingDong, honey, please answer the doorbell!
User currently offlineNbgskygod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 833 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15895 times:



Quoting DingDong (Reply 12):
Where's Frank Lorenzo when you need him?

I believe he is referbishing his apartment in the 8th level of hell.



"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
User currently offlineVictorKilo From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 315 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15481 times:

How would a MIA-based "New Eastern" impact FLL-based Spirit? Is there room for Eastern, Spirit, and American in South Florida? Can New Eastern survive with the higher operating costs at MIA, or will it threaten Spirit's viability in the process? And how will this affect JetBlue?

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15292 times:

Please no, leave the Eastern name alone. Don't tarnish it like what was done to Pan Am.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15269 times:



Quoting TISTPAA727 (Reply 8):
but the bare metal w/ stripes



Quoting TISTPAA727 (Reply 8):
I wonder if they would have to use the white paint scheme because of the A320s...

They would have to be painted, as Airbus aircraft cant be not painted, its part of their corrosion control method - how many of AAs A300s are flying around sans-paint?



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently onlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11501 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15141 times:

Why Eastern?

Is there some big market pressure to bring the name Eastern back into existence after almost 20 years of being out of business?

Pan Am, I could see. But not Eastern.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15004 times:



Quoting D L X (Reply 17):
Is there some big market pressure to bring the name Eastern back into existence after almost 20 years of being out of business?

To many people New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington to Florida is Eastern Air Lines. Just as New York to Europe was Pan Am.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineChase From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14889 times:



Quoting D L X (Reply 17):
Why Eastern?

Is there some big market pressure to bring the name Eastern back into existence after almost 20 years of being out of business?

Pan Am, I could see. But not Eastern.

That's a GOOD question. Excluding us plane nuts, I wonder a) how many of the general public really remember Eastern Air Lines, and b) how many of those would be more likely to buy a ticket on a current airline using that name versus any other name. As for #a, I know that both my wife and mother-in-law remember that they flew Eastern on some trip when my wife was little. But I doubt they'd be like "oh boy, Eastern is back! We just *have* to take our next trip on them!!".


User currently offlineToltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3304 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14783 times:



Quoting VictorKilo (Reply 14):
Is there room for Eastern, Spirit, and American in South Florida?

Depends on the business model. If they are going to fly MIA to major markets with multiple daily flights, they'll get eaten alive. If they are going to somehow use the Allegiant business model and fly MIA to smaller markets less than daily, they can make it work. Allegiant is opening a LAX base, can't be that much cheaper to fly out of there.


User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14709 times:

Slightly off-topics, do you guys know/remember the song "Lindberg" by Canadian singer Charlebois. It's in French, but his refrain lists a number of airlines long gone since then:
"...and I went back on Quebec Air, Transworld, Northern, Eastern, Western and Pan American..." .
Ah! nostalgia!


User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14412 times:



Quoting STT757 (Reply 18):
To many people New York, Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington to Florida is Eastern Air Lines. Just as New York to Europe was Pan Am.

But do these people have positive memories of the most recent Eastern? A failing airline that couldn't compete in quality and service with the likes of USAir, Piedmont, and Delta as well as upstarts like Air Florida?

-Rampart


User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 14351 times:



Quoting Rampart (Reply 22):
But do these people have positive memories of the most recent Eastern? A failing airline that couldn't compete in quality and service with the likes of USAir, Piedmont, and Delta as well as upstarts like Air Florida?

Yeah, much like Pan Am, Eastern towards the end was sort of a shell of its former self.


User currently offlineJsposaune From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 293 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 13642 times:



Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 3):
Who would step in and fly the routes to CUN, PUJ, MBJ, etc. if this goes through? (I'm talking all cities, not just MKE)

I don't want to start any ugly "rumors"... but pull up flight options from PIT to CUN on, say...December 20th on applevacations.com, and see what you come up with...!
 Wink



There are no stupid questions....only stupid people!!!
25 PITrules : Excellent detective work! PIT-MBJ/PUJ have the same results
26 D L X : And now it's all DL and US with a dash of AA. Do people miss Eastern? I don't really think so. I've never heard someone angrily tell a CSA, "you're l
27 N7190JR : NO flights on USA 3000's website either......... - N7190JR
28 Jsposaune : It was an answer to the previous question of who would pick up U5's PIT-CUN/MBJ/PUJ flights for Apple Vacations if something were to happen to U5.
29 Post contains links SpruceMoose : People remember the name. Companies spend a lot of money on name recognition and 'brand equity', and the collective cultural memory of 'Eastern Air L
30 Manfredj : Well put. But the Eastern name backed by a few good investors could lead to a wonderful airline. Let's hope they put into it what's needed to make it
31 Srbmod : He's essentially blackballed from the industry. He tried to launch an airline out of IAD back in the early 90s (Ironically called Friendship Airlines
32 BigSaabowski : Just to clarify, he was never at ASA. He was co-founder of ACA.
33 Legacytravel : Apple would contract with another carrier. Maybe Allegiant or SY. I am guess FL would fill the void up here in MKE. Mark in MKE
34 Tango-Bravo : Whatever memories people might have of allegedly substandard service on the original Eastern no longer matters, inasmuch as today service quality is
35 Enilria : Because no other airline would use Ch11 to break a union contract? Like DL, NW, F9, UA, etc. The estate tried to sell it for years. They have a fiduc
36 Viscount724 : All of them as far as I know. They were painted for their first few years of service. I believe they're the only Airbus aircraft in the world without
37 413x3 : since "retro" has been "in" for a few years now, it was only a matter of time before some guy put 2 and 2 together and thinks he can make a profit fro
38 Oceanic : Now all they have to do is reopen "If you had wings" at Disney World and they'll be good to go! Who needs Buzz Lightyear anyway?
39 Post contains images OB1504 : I think gray, as seen on the A300s, would be most likely, assuming the revive the livery as well. Then again, AY has a modest FLL operation, too. I t
40 Hiflyer : Hmm last I had heard a few years back was G had to come down due to being waaay out of compliance with fire codes and such. Also no customs on G...la
41 OB1504 : I've heard conflicting rumors about the fate of G. Honestly, with the completion of D and J, the closure and demolition of G wouldn't be a very notic
42 GSPSPOT : Would LOVE to see EA (or the Eastern name at least) back at GSP!
43 Hiflyer : I would agree with the idea that the Eastern 'plan' is running into obstacles and that a cheaper route would be to buy an existing airbus certificate.
44 Falcon84 : Just keep the names "Lorenzo" and "Bryan" from every showing up at a new EA, OK?
45 USPIT10L : Don't bet on it. Until I actually see another EA aircraft flying, this airline no longer exists. Otherwise, well said.
46 Argonaut : I know what you mean. But, actually, I really could see a new Eastern. To many people nowadays, the Eastern name name might have limited name recogni
47 Post contains links Flyibaby : I found this article online related to a court dispute of who actually has rights to the Eastern Airlines name and logo. It seems waay to crazy to be
48 Sunking737 : Mr Wegel isn't he part of the group trying to start Air Azul / Sun America / Jet America? or am I wrong and thinking of another?
49 Enilria : This may all be nothing. It says that another group is attempting to register the Eastern Airlines trademark. There is a requirement to use a tradema
50 D L X : I'm actually fairly certain that a court would find that this time has long expired. Eastern Airlines has not used this name in commerce (as in, in i
51 Post contains links MAH4546 : That article is extremely old. Wegel and his investment group completed the acquisition of the EAL brand name earlier this year. http://blogs.wsj.com/
52 Flyibaby : Your right - I read too fast and didn't see the 2008 - just April. I liked how the WSJ quoted the article though! I gotta say though, as great as it
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
BBJs/ACJs: "the Next Corporate Scandal?" posted Tue Dec 2 2003 20:18:49 by N844AA
What Does The Little Dribble Next To "Swiss" Say? posted Fri Feb 1 2002 01:31:52 by 747-600X
Aegean Has Won ERA’s "Airline Of The Year 2008/9" posted Sun Oct 26 2008 10:17:01 by TUNisia
The Return Of "No Way BA/AA" posted Sun Oct 12 2008 12:58:55 by Ayubogg
Air Asia "Airline Of The Year 2007" Picture posted Thu Jul 10 2008 13:24:46 by JBOND
HA CEO On "The Hot Seat" Blog posted Tue Jun 24 2008 16:01:52 by Aloha73G
FlightBlogger: "One Year On: The Story Of The 787" posted Tue May 6 2008 02:29:32 by 797charter
BE - "Wings Of The Community"? posted Tue Apr 29 2008 02:07:31 by Vasu
Bankruptcy: American Airlines The Next Eastern? posted Wed Apr 16 2008 10:38:29 by AAJFKSJUBKLYN
The New " El Dorado " BOG posted Sat Mar 15 2008 10:26:03 by Danimarroquin
Does US Airways Still Use The Callsign "cactus" posted Mon Jan 11 2010 13:11:11 by Flaps30
Eastern Airlines The Next Generation posted Sat Dec 26 2009 22:07:21 by Zippyjet
Economy Class: Why The Name "Coach?" posted Fri Dec 25 2009 12:44:41 by Soxfan
AFA: Unlimited UA/CO F UGs A "kick In The Teeth" posted Thu Nov 19 2009 11:48:52 by Bioyuki