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Canada & EU Sign Open Skies Deal  
User currently offlineHarrisonRuess From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2904 times:

Just read that Canada & the EU have made offical their Open Skies pact. It's more or less in line with the deal the US & EU already have in place.

Canadian airlines will have open access to all of the 27 EU nations without limitations. Same is true for EU airlines having access to Canada.

They're estimating in year one an additional 500,000 passengers, 1,000 jobs, and $96 million extra.

As the deal moves along foreign ownership rules are also going to be relaxed.

Full article:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/reuters/0...anada/canada_us_eu_canada_aviation

This is probably the sort of policies that airlines need in times like these - less red tape and open access to more markets.

Cheers,

-HR

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4416 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2840 times:

This could help AC by generating investment in it but does it allow for more foreign ownership in an airline here in Canada?


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineGrimey From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2783 times:

Does this mean that FR might try to get into Canada? Could a B737-800 do SNN - YHZ? On the other hand hasn't EI trying to get into Canada for the last few years.

Grimey


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2769 times:



Quoting Grimey (Reply 2):
On the other hand hasn't EI been trying to get into Canada for the last few years.

EI has had rights to Canada for decades and once served Canada. The fact that they aren't serving Canada now is their own decision, nothing to do with the Canada-Ireland bilateral. I'm sure there are far more potentially-profitable longhaul routes for EI than Canada which is almost all low-yield leisure traffic and highly seasonal. It's more appropriate for leisure carriers with the appropriate cost structure.


User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5301 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2687 times:

I can see a foreign airline jump on the very lucrative CDG-YUL and CDG-YYZ routes soon. Maybe Openskies?

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2647 times:



Quoting KL911 (Reply 4):
I can see a foreign airline jump on the very lucrative CDG-YUL and CDG-YYZ routes soon. Maybe Openskies?

CDG-YUL already has plenty of capacity with up to 11 daily flights on certain days of the week during the peak season (including Corsair 6 days a week from ORY). And YUL isn't a big high-yield premium class market. It's mostly low-yield leisure traffic.

And CDG-YYZ is not a high-volume market. Even during the peak season AC and AF each only operate one daily flight, the same frequency as in the winter. Air Transat also has less than daily service during the summer. There's also not enough premium class demand for an all-premium carrier like Open Skies.


User currently offlineHarrisonRuess From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2613 times:



Quoting Brilondon (Reply 1):
This could help AC by generating investment in it but does it allow for more foreign ownership in an airline here in Canada?

Yes; my reading of it says 49% of a Canadian airline could be foreign owned (compared to the current 25%).

AC and WS both seem happy with the idea of being open to a wider marker for investment.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7737 posts, RR: 17
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2576 times:

After the Anglo-Canadian Open Skies agreement was signed some three years back we did not see any impact on existing routes with new operators or increased services. However we did see new routes started like BA's LHR-YYC 763 flight.

User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2684 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2557 times:

Will Go Travel Direct operate with Finnair this summer?

[Edited 2009-05-06 16:39:59]


us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2684 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2536 times:



Quoting Grimey (Reply 2):
Could a B737-800 do SNN - YHZ?

SNN-YHZ is 4002 km.

Maximum range on the B738 is 5,665 km, so it is possible.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 7):
After the Anglo-Canadian Open Skies agreement was signed some three years back we did not see any impact on existing routes with new operators or increased services

Expect much of the same with this agreement. All the European airlines wishing to fly to Canada already do, and some have even downsized or pulled out altogether along the years, like OS, OK, RO and MA for example.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2520 times:



Quoting VV701 (Reply 7):
After the Anglo-Canadian Open Skies agreement was signed some three years back we did not see any impact on existing routes with new operators or increased services. However we did see new routes started like BA's LHR-YYC 763 flight.

However BA's rights LHR-YYC had nothing to do with Open Skies. They acquired rights to YVR/YYC/YEG around 1980. (give or take a year). They briefly served both YYC and YEG once or twice a week as intermediate stops on some LHR-YVR flights. Both YYC and YEG were dropped after a year or so. There wasn't enough traffic for both AC and BA then. BA could have reinstated service to YYC/YEG anytime they wanted.

I flew LHR-YEG-YVR on a BA L1011-500 in December 1981 and I don't think they'd been serving western Canada very long then.


User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2684 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 2515 times:

So now all that's left is for Emirates Airline to convince their government to join the European Union, and voila, they get to fly all they want out of YYZ....  biggrin 

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2483 times:



Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 9):
All the European airlines wishing to fly to Canada already do, and some have even downsized or pulled out altogether along the years, like OS, OK, RO and MA for example.

OS and OK still serve Canada. OS operates daily VIE-YYZ with 767-300ER. OK also operates PRG-YYZ with A310-300 and are actually increasing their frequency this summer compared to last year.


User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2684 posts, RR: 11
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2410 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):

OS and OK still serve Canada. OS operates daily VIE-YYZ with 767-300ER. OK also operates PRG-YYZ with A310-300 and are actually increasing their frequency this summer compared to last year.

They both downsized Canada ops, when they left YUL. !!! That was my point.

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2383 times:



Quoting Thenoflyzone (Reply 13):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):

OS and OK still serve Canada. OS operates daily VIE-YYZ with 767-300ER. OK also operates PRG-YYZ with A310-300 and are actually increasing their frequency this summer compared to last year.

They both downsized Canada ops, when they left YUL. !!! That was my point.

I'm not sure they really downsized Canada, meaning reduced total capacity, when they dropped YUL. Didn't OS and OK stop in YUL en route to YYZ? Or maybe OS spllit their total frequencies between YUL and YYZ. With their current YYZ service I think they have more capacity to Canada (or at least the same amount) than when they were serving both YYZ and YUL.


User currently offlineAvroArrow From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 1045 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2367 times:

Anything that brings more variety into YYZ is fine with me. I'm sure the likes of AC and TS can compete and WS can only benefit from the connecting traffic.


Give me a mile of road and I can take you a mile. Give me a mile of runway and I can show you the world.
User currently offlineThenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2684 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2367 times:

OS used to bring in the A343 or A332 to YUL, and it was a terminator flight, they operated between 3 and 4 times a week i believe.

They used to do the same for YYZ, so the B763 currently in use is a definite downgrade.

As for OK, they used to fly 3x weekly during the winter and 4x weekly during the summer at the peak of it, and 3 out of the 4 flights went on to YYZ. I remember the Saturday flights used to terminate in YUL. YYZ also had a flight or two per week that flew non-stop to PRG.

All this to say that both airlines definately downgraded their ops to Canada. The increases coming are the standard summertime pickups that we generally see.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2009-05-06 18:40:50]


us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
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