LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 12740 posts, RR: 22 Posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12415 times:
Hopefully beats leaving planes sitting around without fixed-fee flying.
Quote: SkyWest Assumes Revenue Risk To Place 50-Seaters With United
May 07 2009
SkyWest has found a home for seven 50-seat Bombardier CRJ200 aircraft returned from Midwest by signing a deal to do some flying for United in which SkyWest will assume the revenue risk and pay for its own fuel.
This is the first pro-rate deal as opposed to the fixed-fee, fuel cost reimbursement arrangements that have become predominant in the industry that SkyWest has signed for the CRJ200. It reflects the creative lengths to which regional carriers may have to go in order to place 50-seat aircraft, which in the view of the major carriers have become uneconomical on many routes because of the recession and fuel prices.
Chip Childs, president and COO of SkyWest Inc.’s SkyWest Airlines subsidiary, said the aircraft will be placed into service June 4, flying as United Express. The airline is not identifying the specific markets yet, but said most will be out of Chicago and some will be in markets in which it used to fly for United under fixed-fee agreements.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 14547 posts, RR: 14 Reply 1, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12249 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter): The airline is not identifying the specific markets yet, but said most will be out of Chicago and some will be in markets in which it used to fly for United under fixed-fee agreements.
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 5809 posts, RR: 22 Reply 2, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12233 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1): What former OO markets has UA exited?
Perhaps a better question is.. what markets did OO used to fly for UA.. that would give you a start as to which routes they may fly.. ones they previously flew..
Transpac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 2274 posts, RR: 15 Reply 4, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12203 times:
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 14547 posts, RR: 14 Reply 6, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 12099 times:
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 5): is ORD still slot controlled?
Not anymore.
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 2): Perhaps a better question is.. what markets did OO used to fly for UA.. that would give you a start as to which routes they may fly.. ones they previously flew..
Why would UA let them fly pro-rate in competition with another Express carrier?
Flyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1518 posts, RR: 14 Reply 8, posted (9 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 11958 times:
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 7): 2. Markets it used to fly for United
Hum....let the guessing begin. I would love to see them return to TOL after almost two decades being gone. Maybe they'll try to pick up places that currently don't have UA service like returning to AZO or something like that. It is definitely an interesting development and hopefully it goes well for them. It sure does beat them sitting on the ground not bringing in any revenue.
Jpyvr From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 72 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11369 times:
Might I suggest that the title of this thread should be "own-risk" rather than "at-risk"? Those terms mean quite different things, and I for one would not want to fly an "at-risk" CRJ (or 77W or 744 or ERJ for that matter...)
UnitedTristar From United States of America, joined May 2004, 965 posts, RR: 6 Reply 11, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11348 times:
Quoting Jpyvr (Reply 10): I for one would not want to fly an "at-risk" CRJ
"at-risk" is an industry term
as for routes
I thought ORD AZO/BMI off the top of my head. Perhaps we could see a ORD - LIT/TRI/BHM/PNS or some other south routes...
-m
Welcome aboard United Airlines L1011 Friendship Service to Osaka!
ERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 5809 posts, RR: 22 Reply 13, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11315 times:
Quoting Jpyvr (Reply 10): Might I suggest that the title of this thread should be "own-risk" rather than "at-risk"?
I would think "at risk" would be correct. Skywest are flying these CRJ on their own dime, at risk of their own failure or success.. "own-risk" just doesn't seem to be the right terminology.
AVION826 From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 27 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11286 times:
These new flights are STILL being marketed as United Express flights, just that SkyWest, not United, will be responsible financially for the flight.
Just think, if you have a flight from Fort Wayne to Chicago, wouldn't it make more sense to codeshare with United, where you can grab customers that fly from Fort Wayne to Chicago and on to Honolulu? I mean, who just flies from FWA to ORD?
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 4169 posts, RR: 13 Reply 15, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11262 times:
Just to throw this out there, SkyWest already flies at-risk in many markets under the UA code, albiet using EMB-120s, but they are profitable routes, and are evaluated from time to time. In fact, I have yet to see a plane that isn't full on a PSP-LAS run.
"I heard that there are rumors on the internets" -- G. W. Bush at the second 2004 debate
WA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1138 posts, RR: 6 Reply 16, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11119 times:
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 15): In fact, I have yet to see a plane that isn't full on a PSP-LAS run.
The only time I flew PSP-LAS was mid week, in Mar 08. There were just 7 people on the flight, and I was wondering how OO could support the route.
I'm glad to hear the route is profitable for OO, and my flight was the exception rather than the rule!
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 14547 posts, RR: 14 Reply 17, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10582 times:
Those are good guesses. What is UA's history at CMI? UA* has also flown to UIN in the past, though I don't think they ever did so with jets. Slightly more off the beaten path than CMI and UIN might be LAF, OWB, or maybe even COU.
Hatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 875 posts, RR: 9 Reply 18, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10035 times:
Isn't the new SFO-PSC service at risk? Even though they did get some incentives to fly the route from the chamber of commerce there. I don't think it's the typical UA capacity agreement.
Mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 4600 posts, RR: 11 Reply 19, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9920 times:
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 15): Just to throw this out there, SkyWest already flies at-risk in many markets under the UA code, albiet using EMB-120s, but they are profitable routes, and are evaluated from time to time. In fact, I have yet to see a plane that isn't full on a PSP-LAS run.
I believe the same holds true for some of the DL Connections flights that OO runs......SLC-SUN springs to mind and possibly SLC-SGU. There may be some others but they are all Brazilia routes.
''Life's tough . . . It's even tougher if you're stupid..'' The Duke -- John Wayne
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 4169 posts, RR: 13 Reply 20, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 9860 times:
Quoting Mayor (Reply 19): I believe the same holds true for some of the DL Connections flights that OO runs......SLC-SUN springs to mind and possibly SLC-SGU. There may be some others but they are all Brazilia routes.
All Brasilia flights for DL are at-risk.
For UA, only non-hub, PDX, SEA, and select LAX and SFO flights are at risk (LAX-SGU, for example.)
"I heard that there are rumors on the internets" -- G. W. Bush at the second 2004 debate
Toltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2668 posts, RR: 5 Reply 21, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9027 times:
Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 8): I would love to see them return to TOL after almost two decades being gone.
So not going to happen..... If they are assuming the revenue risk, why enter a market where you don't have a good deal of control over the pricing? AA would add planes and cut fares, turning the route into a money loser for both. OO would drop it like a hot rock, and depending how bad AA got hurt in the fight, they could pull out as well.
I don't think that they really have one. BMI and PIA (along with some others) are somewhat unique among small Midwestern airports because they get both American Eagle and United Express. Many other destinations get one or the other. CMI has always been American Eagle as far as I know.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
Mayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 4600 posts, RR: 11 Reply 23, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8807 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 22): I don't think that they really have one. BMI and PIA (along with some others) are somewhat unique among small Midwestern airports because they get both American Eagle and United Express.
As well as DL connection out of ATL.
''Life's tough . . . It's even tougher if you're stupid..'' The Duke -- John Wayne
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 3964 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (9 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 8655 times:
Quoting Mayor (Reply 23): As well as DL connection out of ATL.
I was just referring to flights from Chicago. But yes, there are other airlines and destinations as well.
BMI gets : NW(DL): DTW, MSP on Saab 340, but I think that at least some go to CRJs later this year.
DL: ATL on CRJs
FL: ATL & MCO on 717
MQ: ORD and DFW on ERJs
Also, I was wrong ealier, UA no longer flies to Bloomington so Eagle is the only option to ORD
PIA gets: G4 to LAS & AZA using MD-80s
UA to ORD and DEN with CRJs
DL to ATL on CRJ
NW to MSP (Saab 340) and DTW (CRJ)
I think that these two cities get more service than other similarly sized places due to the fact that the twin cities is home to State Farm and Peoria is the headquarters for CAT.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
25 Joeljack: If the flying starts June 4th, we should see an announcement VERY soon on the routes. It's already cut way into the booking window!
26 OH-LGA: All new routes that will be at-risk flying have already been announced and have been available for sale, and certain other existing routes that have b
27 FL787: Has UAX ever flown ORD-RST or ORD-DLH? I think only RST would have any chance but AE has that route covered. Does UAX fly ORD-GFK?
28 KLASM83: No, only FAR in eastern Nodak. Would love to see it, however
29 SurfandSnow: I wouldn't have thought Skywest planned to open a whole bunch of new markets.
31 Mayor: IIRC, those BMI and PIA routes out of ORD are old Ozark routes.
32 DC8FanJet: The "old" Air Wisconsin flew ORD-CMI briefly with Dash 8's in about 1991-92. Service didn't last too long, as they needed the aircraft out of IAD.
33 DurangoMac: The markets are ones that OO flew for UA on contract, from a customer stand point you won't be able to tell. The only way to tell now is to be buddies
34 Mayor: When my daughter was doing more flying for OO than she is today (she's now parttime), sometimes she had to lean out the door to see what livery, DL o
35 XPFG: This is correct. Two of the at-risk markets will be out of SFO. They are: SFO-PSC and SFO-RDM (formerly E120 at-risk flying).
36 Iowaman: As well as PIE. As someone else stated, I don't believe so. However, AE did fly ORD-DLH, but was recently dropped. DLH is just like MSP, very loyal t
37 Syncmaster: Uhmm, they already fly FWA-ORD, so does American Eagle.
38 DurangoMac: You would be surprised on how many have to do that, it's kind of funny. With DL and UA changing flight numbers it's gotten worse.
39 Skyrat: Right now they only have one OO FWA-ORD flight, but after June 4th they have 3. I'm wondering if these additions are to replace YV CRJ2 flying, becau
40 Floridaflyboy: Same problem at Mesaba. Right now, any flights out of ATL, SLC, and TLH are DL connection routes, while the rest are still marketed as Northwest Airl
41 Toltommy: That sounds typical of your director. She has no idea how XJ FA's really work.
42 BMI727: I heard that service was ending soon, so I didn't count it. I've heard that OO crews had to carry two uniforms with them until SkyWest got UA and DL
43 Mayor: I don't think so. My daughter never mentioned it and she's been doing it since 2002. She always wore her Skywest uniform. Actually, her husband used
44 XPFG: BMI727, This is absolutely true! Pilots had to change ties, and flight attendants had an entirely different wardrobe. It wasn't uncommon for some cre
45 Mayor: This must have been pre-2002, then........because as I said, my daughter just always wore her generic Skywest uniform when on a trip.
46 DurangoMac: The current OO uniform is a blend of the three operations. That's probably it's even harder for the crews to know which partner they're flying for.
47 EXAAUADL: If it is going to be "risk" flying it has to be routes that generate a lot of local traffic to ORD. Given that BMI is nearly all connect and the pror
48 Flyinryan99: In this case does UA set the connection fare and OO get like $50 per connection and OO sets the ORD only fares? I'm just wondering how that works. Th
49 Hiflyer: SJC SBA is at risk by SKW for UA as well. I've wondered if SGU LAX was also...hmmm.
50 FlyASAGuy2005: That sounds insane! But I guess much better than changing uniforms as someone else mentioned.
51 FWAERJ: Interesting... maybe FWA is one of the the new OO at-risk routes starting on 6/4 after all. And SkyWest runs a solid operation. BTW, I'll be flying U
52 Skyrat: It just depends. Lately it seems that they have been doing a lot better than they once have. I will say that they do have some really good crew membe
53 FlyASAGuy2005: I've flown Mesa numerous times. Their crew has always seemed to be an awesome bunch although my bags seemed to be more miss than hit with them. On tim
54 CWAFlyer: The pilots never had to change ties or anything else. None of their uniform items had any Delta or United logos, unlike the scarves and things the F/
55 CWAFlyer: Not really. The F/A's on the Midwest Connect side have special training they have go through in order to work those flights. The crews on the Midwest
56 JayDub: SGU-LAX is at-risk and likely wouldn't exist if not for OO's HDQ being located in SGU.
57 Knope2001: ORD-RST was never flown by UA* in any shape for form. ORD-DLH was UA* served by Great Lakes with 1-stop EM2 service (via Rhinelander) for a fairly br
58 DurangoMac: FA's in MKE can pickup flights from other domiciles and do from time to time. They are a select group but they do like to get out of MKE ever once in
59 OOSLC: Ok here are the new at risk cities we are going to be flying this summer: ORD-FWA ORD-MKE ORD-CWA DEN-MKE SFO-ONT SFO-RDM SFO-PSC SFO-RDM is upgraded
60 Cubsrule: ...so UA was prepared to drop MKE altogether but for OO's offer to fly to ORD and DEN at-risk?
61 Avion826: I don't think UA was planning on dropping MKE altogether. I've flown the ORD-MKE route several times and it goes out full quite often. I think what th
62 FlyASAGuy2005: Anyone think UA/ DL will opgrade to jets with the new airport? New service from others?
63 Cubsrule: So they're flying some of it pro-rate and some of it fee-for-departure? Weird...
64 Mayor: I would think so. I know that Skywest told the airport management in SUN that in a very few years, there would be no more Brasilia flying, hence SUN
65 DurangoMac: Only if revenue passenger numbers more than doubled. Although if you look at the number of people on-board, it will look like it's full all the time
66 Cubsrule: ...which apparently means that UA was prepared to completely abandon MKE. That surprises me.
67 Avion826: Since SkyWest Inc. headquarters are located in SGU, there will always be some kind of air link to AT THE VERY LEAST Salt Lake City. I assume they fly
68 CWAFlyer: That's not what I meant. I meant they don't fly different parts of the operation (UA or DL) in the same trip as they do that has any YX flights in it
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