Tobias2702 From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 643 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5685 times:
Hi,
I've come to think about the following topic: When flying nowadays, you can do most things without any airline/airport stuff (like booking, getting your boarding pass, and selecting your seat). But when travelling with checked luggage, you still have to proceed to a drop-off counter, even when you have already checked in at home or at a machine.
I konw that it means that some people would lose their jobs, but couldn't it be possible to install an automatic drop-off system? It would just need to be sort of hatch where you place your bag, it will be weighed and you attach the tag to it, and then it is automatically guided to your flight (as it is already today). I saw a similar system at the luggage storage at Cologne train station: There are no lockers, but only an drop off counter where you put your bags in sort of a cart which it moves to the underground storage.
What has so far prevented airports/airlines from installing such systems? I cannot think of any security risks.
I appreciate your answers and thoughts
Tobias.
PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
Josh32121 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 325 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5639 times:
I believe the limitation in the U.S. is the requirement to ID the person checking the luggage to make sure the traveling passenger is presenting his/her own bags. With electronic ID credentials common now (barcodes on driver licenses, e-passports, etc.), this shouldn't be as big a limitation as it once was.
How about someone (or multiple people) dropping off bags and leaving them that could potentially contain bombs etc.? Instead of being able to spot and catch random unattended bags in the terminal you would potentially have a huge area of unattended bags with who knows what in them. There isn't a feasible way to screen bags fast enough that there wouldnt be a queue. Even in cities that do their bag screening out in the main area of the terminal where pax take their bags from the ticket counter to TSA themselves often have long lines of bags waiting to be screened, and at least in MCI, TSA looks at the bag and matches it to the boarding pass (or have before, I havent checked a bag there in a long time).
Also it would remove any control the airline has of what goes on their planes. There would be no way to prevent people from simply making their own bagtags and dropping them off without being paid for. And im not just talking about the 1st and 2nd bag fees, more like people would try to use the airlines as their own free FedEx. TSA wouldnt stop it as they dont care what goes where, just as long as there isnt something prohibited in it.
Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 6): There would be no way to prevent people from simply making their own bagtags and dropping them off without being paid for
Aren't there already self check-in kiosks where the baggage tag is printed and the passengers attaches is to their bag by themselves?
PA, AF, UK, BA, AB, DL, LH, FR, BD, A3, EZY, DY //// A319/320/346, B733/735/73G/738/744/763, AT4, 146, CR2, DH4
ThrottleHold From South Africa, joined Jul 2006, 622 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 5526 times:
Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 7):
And how is it working exactly? Is it successful?
Working fine. Self check-in at the kiosk, select the number of bags, machine prints tags which I then attached to the bags, put on the conveyor belt and away they go!
T5towbar From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 421 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5494 times:
An automatic dropoff system wouldn't work at all.
1. Security issues (that one speaks for itself)
2. Oversized and overweight items that cannot go down a regular belt. Especially International flights. where most people pack a lot of items. Some are even considered as freight.
3. Most passengers wouldn't know how to read a bag tag or can route themselves, (ie: citycodes and airline codes if interlineing) so the human touch is definitely needed for that function, especially if a computer malfunctions or a glitch happens. You need a person to make sure that the bag meets the passenger at the aircraft on the right aircraft, and it won't be lost in the bagroom system if not properly tagged and scanned. Also, what if you have to get rerouted.......then what? A lot of variables involved here.
4. International flights. PPBM (see #1) The bag must match the passenger.
A novel idea, but after 9/11, won't happen here.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
RL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4537 posts, RR: 13 Reply 11, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5465 times:
Actually I have heard that one of the US majors will be launching this soon... it wont be 100% self service, but more or less a do-it yourself ticket counter curbside. An agent will be available to assit with any questions and there will be a fee,
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
777den From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 124 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5393 times:
United does this , mostly. They have bag check only kiosks that do the paperwork and print a bagtag out for a agent who does the tag and security match. one agent handles 4-5 kiosks
CXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 2696 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5346 times:
SAS in Norway have a system.
When you print your boarding passes, you get a luggage tag, and there are very clear instructions on what to do. Then the person takes their bag to the counter, scans the bag themselves and scan their fingerprints, and the bag will go through. I believe there is some system to control weight and ammount of bags. When the passengers board, they use their finger prints, so the system knows the same people that checked in the baggage are travelling on the flight. When their last flights are taken, the finger prints are deleted automatically.
Usually, there is one attendent by the self-service check-in area to help, and sometimes, there is an attendent to help at the baggage drop (however, they don't need it, but have had one quite a lot during the start of the service).
Then again, its a while since I flew domestic in Norway (nearly a year), so things might have changed, and others here might know some more.
Toulouse From Ireland, joined Apr 2005, 2718 posts, RR: 58 Reply 14, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5306 times:
Quoting ThrottleHold (Reply 3): Many airports already have these. I have used it recently with Aer Lingus in Dublin
Yep as ThrottleHold said, it does already exist. Have used if for first time just a couple of weeks ago at DUB and if I remember correctly (could be wrong) IB has it at T4 in MAD??
Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 7): And how is it working exactly? Is it successful?
So far it's restricted to just one check-in area, which is check-in area 14 (separate from all other check-in areas and on a different floor). This area is exclusively for EI flights to the UK, Germany and France.
I found it fine. Did self check-in at airport, proceeded to conveyor belts. If I remember correctly, had to swipe boarding card, then enter passport (??) than answer on-screen the standard questions you're usually asked when checking-in luggage. Machine then tells you to place your first suitcase in a specific area on the belt. When system finds all to be ok, your baggage tag appears, and you follow on-screen instructions to place it on suitcase, and away goes suitcase. Then a checked-in baggage ticked comes out of the machine for you to keep.
How's it working? I found it fine. But... as with anything new, it will take time for people to get used to it. The area was crowded, and some people were much slower doing the process (as people tend to get flustered, don't follow instructions) and hold up the process. Took me about 2 minutes to do, while the gentleman in front of me took about 10 minutes to figure it out. EI had plenty of staff in the area to help, unfortunately they didn't notice the problems the man infront of me was having, nor did he seek assistance. When he finally managed it, he turned to me with a smile on my face and in a strong US accent says something like "wow, I had to come all the way from the US to beautiful Ireland to discover something so modern as this!". LOL
I think it's a great system. Only thing I don't like about it is that as with many new technologies, it will mean people losing their jobs. I wonder do EI plan on streamlining this when they transfer to the new T2 at DUB next year?
TristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3693 posts, RR: 34 Reply 16, posted (4 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5126 times:
Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 6): Also it would remove any control the airline has of what goes on their planes. There would be no way to prevent people from simply making their own bagtags and dropping them off without being paid for
All bag tags contain a number that is usually bar coded. This bar code is checked by the loaders that load the container that it is clear to load. This specific bar code must be assigned to a passenger checked on that flight.
So a home made bag tag is not enough, sorry!
When you print your boarding passes, you get a luggage tag, and there are very clear instructions on what to do. Then the person takes their bag to the counter, scans the bag themselves and scan their fingerprints, and the bag will go through. I believe there is some system to control weight and ammount of bags. When the passengers board, they use their finger prints, so the system knows the same people that checked in the baggage are travelling on the flight. When their last flights are taken, the finger prints are deleted automatically.
Usually, there is one attendent by the self-service check-in area to help, and sometimes, there is an attendent to help at the baggage drop (however, they don't need it, but have had one quite a lot during the start of the service).
Then again, its a while since I flew domestic in Norway (nearly a year), so things might have changed, and others here might know some more.
-CXfirst
You can all read about SAS excellent drop off system here:
Robffm2 From Germany, joined Dec 2006, 1094 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4871 times:
Some years ago there were some automated luggage drop off macines in FRA for LH (in terminal A, were today the business check in area is).
It must be at least 8 or 10 years but I don't remeber that it lasted long.
Stylo777 From Turkey, joined Feb 2006, 2870 posts, RR: 12 Reply 19, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 4802 times:
in MUC it's still possible to check-in at the machine, print out the tag, put it on your bag and drop the bag at the same machine. actually these machines weight your bag so if it's more then 22kg they won't move and you get a message on the screen to see the service desk. so it's safe concerning the overweight.
as Robffm2 mentioned they had the same machines in FRA in Terminal 1A, but got rid off them approx. two years ago. the reason was the screening procedure. before the screening of the bags were done before moving on to the counters. as there is no screening in front of the counter in FRA anymore they said its too unsafe now and removed the machines and replaced them with almost 20 staffed Quick Drop counters. even on busy days the line will move up fast and you are done in maximum ten minutes (Monday mornings, Friday afternoons, rush hours, long lines...)
actually this is according to some airlines management the future of check-in: everybody checks in online, WAP, mobilephone and just see the counters for dropping the bags.
safes time for the customer and cuts costs for the airline (staff, material...)
in anyway personally I prefer to check in with a human! thats just my two cents...
GothamSpotter From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 586 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4568 times:
Quoting Tobias2702 (Thread starter): What has so far prevented airports/airlines from installing such systems? I cannot think of any security risks.
It makes it a lot easier to for less extremist terrorists, i.e. those who don't wish to be suicide bombers, to blow up planes. See Pan Am 103.
I realize a lot of the airport security we deal with is useless, but this is one minor inconvenience I'm happy to deal with.
Willd From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2008, 194 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4561 times:
Seems to be some confusion on here about this topic. Half the posters claim it could never work and the other half claim it could work.
I think it can work (and does work) and don't see why the security risk is any greater. All the bags, regardless of if they have been tagged by an agent or not, will be screened by security. Some people have stated that terrorists and the like may drop off bags with a bomb and then leave the airport terminal. Firstly, in the UK anyway, you cant move more than 2m from your bag without sparking a security alert. Secondly, if they placed the bag on the conveyor it will be screened prior to arrival at the aircraft and if the passenger didnt turn up for boarding the bag will be offloaded. Thirdly, currently there is nothing stopping a terrorist from walking into an airport with a bomb and placing it into a trash can and walking out again (exactly the reason why for the last 30 years there are no trash cans in British rail stations etc).
Having fully self service check in is not going to increase the security risk at all. All bags will continued to be checked in the same manner as if they were tagged and placed on a belt by an agent. Currently in the UK the check in agent is not a security agent of any sort and so therefore does not perform any search of bags, the screening is done once the bag goes down the belt and would be the same for self check in.
I can assure those doubters, that the Irish, Kiwi and Dubai authorities would not have installed self check in if they did not believe it was not as safe as any other form of check in. In the UK we stopped allowing bags to travel without a passenger along time ago and this would continue under a self service check in.
AAMDanny From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 315 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4385 times:
We studied improving the customer experiance while passing thru an airport and we come accross a fantastic company that had a proposal to manufactur self serve bag drop systems.
I could not re-find the same link however after a search I found this which some of you may find useful.
I think it's a brilliant idea, help's cut down staffing levals, however if the system was ever the fail human resourcing would be a problem when it comes to checking bags manually.
I dont see it as much as a security issue if self served checked baggage is properly screened as it goes thru the passenger baggage system
YLWbased From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2006, 677 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (4 years 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4283 times:
U tag your own bags on all AC domestic flight ex-YVR.
Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
25 SirSheldon: From AC's website: Now you can save even more time at the airport by using Air Canada's quick and convenient Self-Tagging option, which allows you to
26 Speedbird2155: Just to point out that you are unlikely to find any bins readily available for passenger use landside of many if not all UK airports, simply for the
27 United75x: IT is againt TSA policy to let non airline personal ahndle bag tags. This can result in fines up to $10,000. If a machine printed out a bag tag for an
28 Kiwiandrew: are you saying that baggage isnt screened in any way once it has been put on the belt ? In any case , how is it different from a person checking in l
29 Tonystan: Aer Lingus have a great self baggage check in facility in Dublin. I fail to see the speed benefits of hit however as generally passengers take forever
30 Denverdanny: What I like about having someone during baggage drop off is the extra step in security that provides. It's a bit of a psychological barrier to would b
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