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Copa Airlines To Leave SkyTeam In October  
User currently offlineDutchflyboi From Netherlands, joined Apr 2008, 333 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10891 times:

As expected, Copa airlines will follow Continental's lead and leave Skyteam effective October 24th.

'Copa (CM) Airlines announced today it will leave SkyTeam effective Oct. 24, simultaneously with CO’s exit from SkyTeam.

CM said it would depart SkyTeam “due to the long-standing alliance relationship with Continental, and in order to ensure Copa remains fully aligned with Continental on a number of important joint initiatives.”

80 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17046 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 10887 times:

Will CM join Star then?


Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineSnaiks From Panama, joined Mar 2005, 216 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 10730 times:

it was expected for Copa to leave, that will open new opportunities for them as i think now they'll be able to fly to ATL maybe now, or are they gonna keep their CodeShare with DL?
what about with KLM, which i saw today landing at PTY(would have been better if it was on the 03L)


User currently offlineToltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3286 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 10695 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 1):
Will CM join Star then?

It's likely that they would, it would fill a gap for Star. But even if they don't, I think the partnership with CO by itself is going to provide plenty of feed through PTY.


User currently offlineNomorerjs From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 438 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 10576 times:

Any chance of CM starting ORD in the next few years?

User currently offlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4896 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10485 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 1):
Will CM join Star then?

I would assume so, as an associate member.



Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3677 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 10409 times:



Quoting NWADC9 (Reply 5):
I would assume so, as an associate member.

There is no such category in Star AFAIK. CM should get full membership.


User currently onlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4973 posts, RR: 21
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 10383 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 6):
t

here is no such category in Star AFAIK. CM should get full membership.

Any airline with 2 planes can join star.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 2999 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10286 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 7):
Any airline with 2 planes can join star

True. The alliance is a joke. Worldwide orgy.

Aeroflot777


User currently offlineCO58 From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 51 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10250 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 6):
There is no such category in Star AFAIK

Tell that to Adria , Blue1 and Croatia Airways. Star calls them "Regional Members" however.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 6):
CM should get full membership.

I agree, they should be a full member.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22678 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10238 times:



Quoting Toltommy (Reply 3):
It's likely that they would, it would fill a gap for Star.

But where does that leave TA, who fills the same gap?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3677 posts, RR: 19
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10130 times:



Quoting CO58 (Reply 9):
Star calls them "Regional Members" however.

So, you do agree with me that there is no such category. Besides, CM plays in a whole other league when compared to OU, JP and KF.


User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4360 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10117 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 6):
CM should get full membership.

Copa Airlines is a SkyTeam associate member due partially to the lack of its own frequent flyer program.
If CM is willing to enroll in a new global alliance, they would require making the proper movements with them.




.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 10):
But where does that leave TA, who fills the same gap?

CM does not have any arrangement with any Star Alliance airline at this time. Moreover, notice that none of the current Star carriers are now flying to Panama City.
Nonetheless, the concern at this time is that CM would leave SkyTeam later, even though all we know that they are pursuing to join into Star Alliance grouping.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22678 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10107 times:



Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 12):
CM does not have any arrangement with any Star Alliance airline at this time. Moreover, notice that none of the current Star carriers are now flying to Panama City.

Correct. My point was that TA had seemed to be on the inside track to cover Central America for Star, given their relationship with UA. It doesn't seem like Star needs both CM and TA.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11406 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10087 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Dutchflyboi (Thread starter):
As expected, Copa airlines will follow Continental's lead and leave Skyteam effective October 24th.

'Copa (CM) Airlines announced today it will leave SkyTeam effective Oct. 24, simultaneously with CO’s exit from SkyTeam.

CM said it would depart SkyTeam “due to the long-standing alliance relationship with Continental, and in order to ensure Copa remains fully aligned with Continental on a number of important joint initiatives.

Thanks for the info as you mentioned, this was an expected move by CM. The questions are how long till they join Star and what happen to KL flight to PTY without Skyteam feeding.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineAvek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4336 posts, RR: 19
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10056 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 13):
It doesn't seem like Star needs both CM and TA.

Star Alliance can accomodate both airlines with no problems whatsoever.

Remember, the level of intra-alliance cooperation beyond required minimums is always left to the prerogatives of the individual members - if TA and CM were both accepted, some Star carriers would find it useful to work with Taca, some with Copa, some with both carriers, and some with neither Taca nor Copa.



Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineIaherj From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 677 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 10031 times:

Copa is basically Continental Central America. I know we sold off almost all of the stock we held in Copa but the relationship remains the same. They are flying 737NG's that Continental ordered and let them have. I think we(Continental) should modify our 733's with the cargo door and mod and base pilots down in PTY for Central American Cargo Ops. There is an STC for the 733 to be converted to an all cargo config and we already have the relationship with Copa to be able to open a crew base there asap. We could even slowly start to integrate the COPA pilots into the Continental mainline pilot's contractual seniority list and put them on our pay which I'm sure would be a win win for all involved.


Actually flown: EMB-120 EMB-145 B717 B737 B757 B767
User currently offlineCastropRauxel From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 467 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9639 times:



Quoting C010T3 (Reply 6):
There is no such category in Star AFAIK. CM should get full membership.

Maybe it should, but as CM settled to be an "associate member" with skyteam in the first place, while skyteam could really use having more full members (says quite a lot about the poor management of skyteam) , I doubt it will get a different status with STAR than a regional member. like it or not, CM is regional. they don't have a single destination outside the americas. also, I think CM is captured as a CO subsidiary (which doesn't seem to bother them however).

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 8):

True. The alliance is a joke. Worldwide orgy.

At least it has some substance. where exactly would skyteam be without DL and AF/KL? nowhere. that said, I am still surprised each time someone is saying how awful it is that STAR has so many member airlines - anyone who thinks this way, clearly did not fully comprehend the meaning of an airline alliance and its value to its customers, nor the future of commercial aviation.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):
what happen to KL flight to PTY without Skyteam feeding

Well, nothing basically. CM can still feed KL, they don't need to be in skyteam for that.


User currently onlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11406 posts, RR: 59
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9518 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Iaherj (Reply 16):
Copa is basically Continental Central America. I know we sold off almost all of the stock we held in Copa but the relationship remains the same

We also can say Continental Latin America.

Quoting CastropRauxel (Reply 17):
At least it has some substance. where exactly would skyteam be without DL and AF/KL? nowhere

Well, think about OneWorld without AA and BA or Star without LH/LX and UA. All alliances are based on some very strong (or big) airlines.

Quoting CastropRauxel (Reply 17):
Well, nothing basically. CM can still feed KL, they don't need
to be in skyteam for that

Yes if they continue the partnership. Imagine if LH decides to fly FRA-PTY, which flight CM will try to help the most, and which flight they will for sure code-share.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineOta1 From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 398 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9491 times:

Quoting CastropRauxel (Reply 17):
I doubt it will get a different status with STAR than a regional member. like it or not, CM is regional. they don't have a single destination outside the americas

I wouldn't rule out full membership for CM... regarding its network structure and size CM is pretty much comparable to JK or FM who both are full members:

JK - 48 planes / 26 destinations, of which only 7 are international and only 2 of those are not European

FM - 54 planes including 4 cargo planes and 1 biz jet / around 70 destinations of which only 9 are international (non outside Asia)

CM - 43 planes / 45 destinations in 24 countries

Current regional members however all operate 10-15 planes and serve around 25 destinations

[Edited 2009-05-08 04:40:13]

User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8524 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9416 times:
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Quoting Ota1 (Reply 19):
I wouldn't rule out full membership for CM... regarding its network structure and size CM is pretty much comparable to JK or FM who both are full members:

I wouldnt rule out full membership for CM either , however , I think it might be quicker/easier to join as a regional ( together with AéroRepublica which I believe is owned by CM ) . there is , I believe , a significant cost advantage to being only a regional member , and it is by no means certain that the voting rights which are only available to a full member will in every case outweigh the cost advantages of the 'lesser' membership .

JK joined *A in 2003 before there was such a thing as a regional member , if they had joined the following year perhaps they would also have joined under this umbrella .( on a side note it is interesting that so far there have been no additional regional members since the initial 3 back in 2004 )

In any case I think it is now only a matter of time until there is an announcement that CM will be joining in one form or another ( why is there no 'smiley' for "fingers crossed ? )



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineCarls From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9304 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 18):
Well, think about OneWorld without AA and BA or Star without LH/LX and UA. All alliances are based on some very strong (or big) airlines.

I think Star Alliance is the stronger alliances with a lot bigger and better members than the others. Besides Lufthansa, Swiss International, Austrian, BMI, you have also United, US Airways, Singapore Airlines, Thai, ANA, TAP, SAS among others. And now Continental and soon TAM and may be Avianca.....


User currently offlineUSFlyer MSP From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2096 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9183 times:



Quoting Carls (Reply 21):
And now Continental and soon TAM and may be Avianca.....

You will not see Avianca in the STAR alliance. Any destination AV would add is already served by CM. Additionally, CM owns P5 which is AV's major competitor in Colombia and AV owns O6 which is one JJ's main competitors in Brazil.


User currently offlineAA1818 From Trinidad and Tobago, joined Feb 2006, 3429 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9177 times:



Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 22):
You will not see Avianca in the STAR alliance. Any destination AV would add is already served by CM. Additionally, CM owns P5 which is AV's major competitor in Colombia and AV owns O6 which is one JJ's main competitors in Brazil.

I've always thought that if CM went Star, AV would go Sky Team.

AA1818



“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
User currently offlineSimAirlinenet From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 909 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 8835 times:

Can anyone please post a source on this information? I've searched everywhere and I still haven't found an official source stating that this will happen.

25 Post contains links Dutchflyboi : here you go; http://seekingalpha.com/article/1362...s-q1-2009-earnings-call-transcript page 2
26 SJOtoLIR : Think this way: TACA and COPA are both pursuing to join into Star Alliance, despite the fact the duplicity in most of their destinations: MIA, JFK, I
27 Cubsrule : Yes, but they don't need to. CM offers very little that TA does not and TA offers very little that CM does not (JJ reduces the relevant differences b
28 Seemyseems : I hope AV do join! They would benefit a lot. Its a shame that CO chose to go to Star Alliance. When will TAROM and MEA join?
29 Post contains links and images 0NEWAIR0 : This really isn't news at all... I mean who would have thought that Copa wouldn't follow CAL? View Large View MediumPhoto © Propfreak View Large
30 SJOtoLIR : TA does not seem to be interested to connect passengers from their U.S. stations to deep South America. Most destinations located in the south cone s
31 Yellowtail : There is no way in hell they will co-exist peaceful. I know both parties and they HATE each other....TA trying to keep CM out of SAL (slimy style) on
32 Cubsrule : CM is competitive for some passengers: 1) Passengers on the west coast 2) Passengers going to secondary South American destinations (COR, MVD) 3) Pas
33 SJOtoLIR : Correct. Around 2007-2008, legal actions were necessary in San Salvador to begin the non-stop CM PTY-SAL. As a response, TA immediately put the new T
34 United787 : I agree with you 100%, Star does not need both in the alliance, that would be too much overlap, even for Star. It will be interesting to see what hap
35 Abrelosojos : = Really well said. I also fail to comprehend why people get so worked up on Star's expansion as the other alliances sit on the sidelines. This is a
36 Cubsrule : Indeed-- given that it likely doesn't have anything to do with CO/CM (because of the timing), what do you think is at work there?
37 United787 : Star Alliance will instantly go from having the worst presence in Latin America to the best coverage in Latin America when you add JJ, TA and CO. I t
38 EddieDude : That is what I would like to think too. I think we should wait and see how things develop. I think so too. CO has quite decent service standards and
39 Castroprauxel : STAR is much much more than LH and UA. with aviation legends such as SQ, NZ, OZ, TG and SA, as well as great and solid ones like TK, LX, SK, AC and B
40 SJOtoLIR : I saw a point above. We have been extensively discussing that CM and TA would hardly find new ways of cooperation between them, in despite that both
41 EddieDude : That is obviously a very subjective assessment. I like AM a lot. I have seen how they have been cutting costs in terms of onboard service lately, whi
42 Seemyseems : I think SkyTeam has two aviation legends; KLM and Delta. I think KL being the biggest aviation legend out of the SkyTeam carriers. I agree with you h
43 CastropRauxel : As I've said, I meant the other carriers other than DL and AF/KL. Yeah I'm sure they're nice. but still, nothing special. Surely you don't compare KE
44 EddieDude : Recent surveys have put them on par, and thus they have gone to win awards.
45 DELTA7478 : Copa Airlines is a SkyTeam associate member due partially to the lack of its own frequent flyer program. If CM is willing to enroll in a new global a
46 AznMadSci : Whether this translates to being a Star Regional Member is still unclear. As SkyTeam associates, KQ and UM utilize FlyingBlue while CM utilizes OnePa
47 CastropRauxel : PPPFFFFFF.... I wouldn't count any "awards" KE wins in an online survey. apparently they have developed a procedure to send by company email to all t
48 2travel2know : CM management should have their heads examine if they're going to allow the airline to be a part of Star together with TA. The relation between CO and
49 DELTA7478 : You have a good point.
50 Post contains links SR 103 : Considering I have flown all the airlines you mentioned above, I would rate KE right up there if not better than TG. Heck I would go so far as to say
51 Post contains links EddieDude : http://www.worldairlineawards.com/main/mthds.htm http://www.worldairlineawards.com/Awards_2007/Yclass.htm I would have thought that there was some de
52 C010T3 : I don't know. I would agree with you if United were conducting the process, but LH is the most interested, so I believe that they would prefer a carr
53 SJOtoLIR : I'm not sure. For example regarding the situation in OneWorld grouping, LAN system is working successfully based on the multi-hub scheme: Lima, Bueno
54 Cubsrule : How much does PTY bring to the table that TA does not? My sense is very little-- PTY has more destinations, but many are not conveniently-served from
55 LH506 : and to a lessor extend UIO/GYE with flights to LIM, SCL, MIA, MAD, JFK, Medellin, GYE-UIO and very soon UIO-CUE/GYE-CUE and UIO-GYE-Galapagos
56 Luisca : Copa is keeping its agreement with AM and KL intact.
57 LipeGIG : Good to know. Thanks for the information.
58 Hardiwv : KLM has even decided to increase PTY to 5 weekly MD-11 and I would say the route could continue if CM ends the agreement with KLM. It is important to
59 2travel2know : KL flights fit the late-afternoon/evening hub hours. If the destination happen to be ADZ, GDL, TGU, PAP, KIN, PUJ, STI or VLN; only then there's a re
60 Hardiwv : As you know there are many other destinations which do not fit KL schedule such as MGA, SJO, SAL, GUA. At the office the other day someone had to fly
61 Luisca : I can assure you this is not the case anymore, CM operates an extensive late evening flight bank that departs between 750 and 850 pm, KLs flight arri
62 2travel2know : If KL arrives PTY 1770, CM departs to: MGA 1850 SJO 1845, 1850, 2040 SAL 2045 GUA 1845, 1850, 1850, 2045 Then those destinations do fit KL schedule.
63 Hardiwv : Thanks for the info, I was not aware of CM strong hub bank in the late afernoon/evening which indeed suits KLM. Rgs,
64 SJOtoLIR : CM PTY-GIG, CM PTY-CNF and CM PTY-MAO are not supporting the G3 code. CM-G3 seems like a weak cooperation service between them. . Correct. According
65 Hardiwv : Daily KLM flights in PTY will not happen for the time being, the 5 x week took some time to confirm as it was pushed back to 4 x week and then reconf
66 SJOtoLIR : The bilateral treaty [Peru-Brazil] is now restricted up to 28x weekly flights from the Peruvian boundary: TA LIM-GRU 14x weekly, TA LIM-GIG 4x weekly
67 EddieDude : I wonder if this will be long-term or if the agreements will be dropped eventually. I remember DL used to have a mileage accrual and redemption agree
68 Hardiwv : Your numbers are not quite rights. TAM operates GRU-LIM daily, while LA has downgraded LIM-GRU from twice daily to 11 weekly, then 10 weekly and now
69 Seemyseems : Is VN joining as an Associate or as a full time member?
70 LH506 : Not quite: TA LIM-GRU 14 (I think temporarily they do not operate all 14 frequencies) TA LIM-GIG 4 LA LIM-GRU 7 means there are 3 available for Peruv
71 2travel2know : G3 has 7 GRU-EZE-SCL-LIM, so it's 14 frequencies to Perú available for Brazilian airlines. Going back to the subject of this topic, if JJ dailly LIM
72 Post contains links SJOtoLIR : Let's elaborate the numbers better: Available supply from Peru to Brazil: TA LIM-GRU: 14x weekly LP LIM-GRU: 10x weekly TA LIM-GIG: 4x weekly TOTAL:
73 CastropRauxel : I believe you missunderstood me; because KQ is so important, they should have been added as a full member, this is what I'm saying. just goes to show
74 SR 103 : Did I miss something? I thought SQ just dropped ICN-YVR. How is that "kicking the **** out of KE?" Besides what does that have to do with anything? N
75 CastropRauxel : Did you see what I was referring to? SQ is biting more and more into the KE share even in south Korea itself, and is the biggest rival KE has at the
76 Post contains links 2travel2know : CM leaves SkyTeam - the Press release, but nothing yet as when or how CM joins Star Alliance.
77 BOAC911 : Overlap? Alliances have nothing to do with overlap. Take a look at OS, SK, LO, LH and many flights they code-share on.
78 LipeGIG : TA nowadays runs LIM-GRU just 11x weekly. But you're right, there are 28 allocated frequencies, however only 21 are being used right now. But TA seem
79 Abrelosojos : = KQ joined as an associate member because it does not have its own FFP. MEA might also join as an associate - however, they are holding on (sensibly
80 Castroprauxel : Smart STAR has a work around for that - it's called Miles&More No I don't. but just to back it up, I asked from a colleague to check for me booking f
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