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OAG Changes 5/8/2009: AS/DL/FL/NW  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7720 posts, RR: 15
Posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7917 times:

Numerous Mexico cuts for May, but since it appears temporary I'm not going to list them.

AS
SEA-IAH NEW 0 roundtrip to 1 roundtrip 738 Eff. 10/09
SEA-ATL NEW 0 to 1 738 Eff. 10/09
OAK-OGG NEW 0 to 4/week 738 Eff. 11/09
OAK-KOA NEW 0 to 3/week 738 Eff. 11/09
PDX-OGG NEW 0 to 3/week 738, now Eff. 7/09 instead of 8/09
HNL-SEA 1 to 2 738, Eff. 7/09

DL
BOS-BWI CXLD 7 to 0 CRJ Eff. 9/09; Related to WN/B6 entry in market
DL downgraded the aircraft on a bunch of CVG routes. I just list the eqp swapped. The other flights in these markets were unaffected.
CVG-BDL DGRADE 1 CR7 replaced by 1 CRJ; Eff. 8/09
CVG-CMH DGRADE 1 M88 replaced by 1 CR7; Eff. 8/09
CVG-MSP DGRADE 2 CR9 replaced by 2 CRJ; Eff. 8/09
CVG-PHL DGRADE 1 CR7 replaced by 1 CRJ; Eff. 8/09
CVG-PIT DGRADE 1 M88 replaced by 1 CR7; Eff. 8/09
CVG-STL DGRADE 1 CR9 replaced by 1 ERJ; Eff. 8/09

LGA-MSY TRANSFER 2 to 0 Eff. 7/09 ; to NW

FL
MKE-DEN now year-round rather than Summer only


NW
DTW-MTY Daily to 5/week; Eff. 5/09; Appears permanent
LGA-MSY TRANSFER 0 to 2 Eff. 7079 ; from DL

OAG changes usually appear in GDS by Monday.

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6733 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7894 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
BOS-BWI CXLD 7 to 0 CRJ Eff. 9/09; Related to WN/B6 entry in market

There's a surprise.

In all seriousness though, I figured DL might keep this in the res. systems a little longer. Apparently, they didn't even want to see how bad the bloodshed would be.

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
MKE-DEN now year-round rather than Summer only

If this sticks, this will be a genuine surprise. Given the competition on this route, I didn't think FL would want to stick it out year round. Granted, the ski traffic in the winter might be appealing especially if FL were to codeshare on a certain other carriers flights.


User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 2024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7839 times:

Yet more seats lost from CVG, including two more mainlines gone. Regionals must own that place now.

User currently offlineMke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2465 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7841 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
FL
MKE-DEN now year-round rather than Summer only

Even with three other airlines on the route? We'll see...I have a gut feeling EWR is coming soon.



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7795 times:



Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 2):
Yet more seats lost from CVG, including two more mainlines gone. Regionals must own that place now.

Now??? Regionals have owned CVG for a few years now. Barbie Jets and Jungle Jets have made up more than 80% of the flights at CVG since 2005. If DL could strap long-range drop tanks on RJs, like the military does to fighters, DL would use RJs on the international routes out of CVG.



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7795 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 1):
If this sticks, this will be a genuine surprise. Given the competition on this route, I didn't think FL would want to stick it out year round.

Agreed. FL usually runs from competition outside of ATL.

But, OTOH, if they want to experiment with a competitive route ex-MKE, DEN makes some sense (UA and F9 won't much care, and YX probably doesn't have the aircraft to respond). It'll be interesting to see if this is the beginning of a trend or just a single experiment.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7720 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7758 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 1):
In all seriousness though, I figured DL might keep this in the res. systems a little longer. Apparently, they didn't even want to see how bad the bloodshed would be.

Go take a look at the fares that are selling now. You can go roundtrip for around $75. This will help B6 quite a bit since they are the heir apparent to DL's largely BOS point of sale traffic.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 1):
Given the competition on this route, I didn't think FL would want to stick it out year round.

There's two things going for it.

1) YX will leave sooner or later
2) WN isn't going to fly it.

While someone not flying it (WN) may hardly seem like a benefit, it's hard to fly out of DEN without WN on top of you. Also, F9 and FL have frequent flier ties.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7745 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 6):
While someone not flying it (WN) may hardly seem like a benefit, it's hard to fly out of DEN without WN on top of you.

This is an important point, I think. That said, if WN comes to MKE (which would almost certainly be in the form of MKE-DEN), FL will drop MKE-DEN like a hot potato regardless of how much they've built up MKE at that point.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7720 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7711 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
This is an important point, I think. That said, if WN comes to MKE (which would almost certainly be in the form of MKE-DEN), FL will drop MKE-DEN like a hot potato regardless of how much they've built up MKE at that point.

 checkmark  I think FL will lose in BOS-BWI long before that!

If YX dies or appears on life support, I think WN might change their plans and jump into MKE just to be a spoiler to FL. FL doesn't stick to much, but they might want to grow a pair up against WN or they will find themselves doing a lot of running soon.

FL is now the profitable carrier and WN is not. FL should really adjust their strategy against WN and be more willing to fight now.


User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 2024 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7706 times:



Quoting Skibum9 (Reply 4):
Now??? Regionals have owned CVG for a few years now. Barbie Jets and Jungle Jets have made up more than 80% of the flights at CVG since 2005. If DL could strap long-range drop tanks on RJs, like the military does to fighters, DL would use RJs on the international routes out of CVG.

"Now" didn't exactly mean as quickly as flipping a switch. Just seems like the past year or two the transition has been ramped up with no end in sight. Every week seems to have a new downguage at CVG.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6733 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7637 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 6):

2) WN isn't going to fly it.

But assuming WN doesn't start MKE, any route FL launches from MKE won't have WN.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 7):
That said, if WN comes to MKE (which would almost certainly be in the form of MKE-DEN), FL will drop MKE-DEN like a hot potato regardless of how much they've built up MKE at that point.

Maybe, but I think FL might actually get to the point of being willing to fight for MKE.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 8):
FL is now the profitable carrier and WN is not

But WN will likely post a profit this quarter or next. It's not as if WN has been perpetually bleeding ink. And even FL only returned to profitability this past quarter.

With that said, I agree that FL will have to stand its ground somewhere. The good news for FL is that WN is starting to show its age. The bad news is that WN has plenty of cash and can run pretty sloppy for years if needed.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7720 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 7567 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 10):

With that said, I agree that FL will have to stand its ground somewhere. The good news for FL is that WN is starting to show its age. The bad news is that WN has plenty of cash and can run pretty sloppy for years if needed.

WN has the suffocation strategy down-pat, but FL's costs are much lower than WN. That's why WN targets LCCs!


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2908 posts, RR: 31
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7419 times:

Well, now it seems all but inevitable that the CVG hub's days are numbered. I guess now that DL has an excellent hub facility coupled with a stronger local market at nearby DTW, there really is no more need for CVG anymore. Though, I do wonder whether PIT was better off with all the expensive US Airways n/s service or doing better today with several LCCs and much lower fares...


Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineRampguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 7372 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 12):
Well, now it seems all but inevitable that the CVG hub's days are numbered. I guess now that DL has an excellent hub facility coupled with a stronger local market at nearby DTW, there really is no more need for CVG anymore. Though, I do wonder whether PIT was better off with all the expensive US Airways n/s service or doing better today with several LCCs and much lower fares...

When do you think DL will end all short hop flights from CVG that are approx. 20-30 minutes flying time? Example: CVG to CMH/DAY/CLE/LEX/SDF/IND/FWA/SBN/EVV/PIT and so on.


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4718 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7183 times:

Take a look for some ATL frequency increases... I know PVD got their 4th flight back

BHM will be up to 15x HSV up tp 11x PNS 11x LIT 9x

I have no idea where all these CR2s came from, but they have added a ton of frequency at ATL for July/Aug.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineBrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4416 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 7159 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
LGA-MSY TRANSFER 2 to 0 Eff. 7/09 ; to NW

I'm not sure what is being changed to NW other then it is now being considered a DL flight which I thought was going to happen to all NW flights by then of the year.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6971 times:



Quoting Brilondon (Reply 15):
I'm not sure what is being changed to NW other then it is now being considered a DL flight which I thought was going to happen to all NW flights by then of the year.

Aircraft- it'll be an Airbus.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 10):
With that said, I agree that FL will have to stand its ground somewhere. The good news for FL is that WN is starting to show its age. The bad news is that WN has plenty of cash and can run pretty sloppy for years if needed.

Thinking about it more, I really think that if MKE is in WN's short- to medium-term plans, I wonder whether they'd do well to start MKE sooner rather than later. If YX begins to die (or dies), I think DL would probably build a decent focus city at MKE (probably bigger than IND but smaller than AA/STL). At the same time, FL may be larger in 5 or 10 years than they are now- making them less likely to run from competition.

All of that might mean that WN would be well-served to start MKE now (of course, that might provoke a response from DL-- as it might whenever they do it).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1209 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6926 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
PDX-OGG NEW 0 to 3/week 738, now Eff. 7/09 instead of 8/09

This one goes daily in 8/09 now.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7771 posts, RR: 27
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6928 times:



Quoting Brilondon (Reply 15):
I'm not sure what is being changed to NW other then it is now being considered a DL flight which I thought was going to happen to all NW flights by then of the year.

DL is essentially swapping most their p2p Northeast - Florida / Gulf Coast flying from MD-88's to NW A319's over the next few months. The routes listed below, all traditionally legeacy DL routes are transitioning to A319's

LGA-FLL
LGA-NAS
LGA-TPA
LGA-MSY

BDL-MCO
BDL-PBI
BDL-TPA

BOS-PBI
BOS-TPA


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6791 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 6907 times:

I also noticed DL will be putting a daily MD90 on the RDU-ATL flight.. guess they are moving around too..


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6733 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6744 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
If YX begins to die (or dies), I think DL would probably build a decent focus city at MKE (probably bigger than IND but smaller than AA/STL).

I kind of doubt this will happen. DL has little interest in building new focus cities. They killed CMH and once in control drew down IND. They might add a few flights (BOS, LGA, DCA), but beyond that I wouldn't count on much should YX die.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23308 posts, RR: 20
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6706 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 20):
They killed CMH and once in control drew down IND.

It wouldn't take much adding to have a focus city bigger than IND, and I'm not thinking there would be much-- 3 or 4 daily to LGA and DCA, a couple to Boston, a couple to LAX, maybe one each to LAS and SFO, and maybe RJs to some smaller markets that are strong DL cities (RDU or BDL, for instance).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 6536 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 1):
especially if FL were to codeshare on a certain other carriers flights.

 checkmark  I suppose so too.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 2):
Yet more seats lost from CVG, including two more mainlines gone. Regionals must own that place now.



They've owned the place for about 3 years now since the Comair drawdown in Atlanta but it's gotten pretty bad over the past 2 years or so. I remember there was a thread about the DL presence in CVG and the number was something like 41 mainline flights a day? What are we down to now?

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 18):
DL is essentially swapping most their p2p Northeast - Florida / Gulf Coast flying from MD-88's to NW A319's over the next few months. The routes listed below, all traditionally legeacy DL routes are transitioning to A319's

My question is where are the dogs going? I know in the last web cast it was mentioned that the MD88s were included in the mainline fleet that they planned on grounding so I guess that's where some of the capacity is going but possibly seeing them in DTW /IND / MEM?



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinePeachair From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 367 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 6320 times:

Where is the website to get these updates?

Thanks


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7771 posts, RR: 27
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6134 times:

I also forgot LGA-BDA is going to NW as an A320.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 22):
My question is where are the dogs going? I know in the last web cast it was mentioned that the MD88s were included in the mainline fleet that they planned on grounding so I guess that's where some of the capacity is going but possibly seeing them in DTW /IND / MEM?

Not yet. The summer schedule through the end of August has been set. There is no other narrowbody cross-fleeting will be occuring.

Keep in mind in the end is is really about 6-8 aircraft that have been swapped.
This counter-balances the domestic routes that DL has taken over NW such as the intra-hub flying (e.g, DTW-ATL) that has become all-DL.

The A319 fleet had available capacity to take over these routes, and NW continues to use the DC-9-50 on short-range routes as their 125 seat aircraft.

There won't be a significant amount of domestic cross-fleeting until after
a) SOC is achieved
b) the IAM / ground-handling union issues are resolved

Plus DL isn't trying to bite off more than they can chew at once. They have stated they would like to move slowly in terms of cross-fleeting to insure they get things right. They weren't planning to do much domestic cross-fleeting until 2010 anways


25 ERJ170 : Will we see some of the SLC transcons go Airbus.. sometimes I think the 319 would be better for some of the transcons out of SLC than the 738 (which c
26 Post contains images Skibum9 : Here is a good summary of the barbie and jungle jet take over at CVG up until the end of 2007. I believe the number of mainline has stayed somewhat s
27 OA412 : A while back it was rumored that some of the SLC-East Coast routes would go A319 but nothing has come of that yet.
28 Tommy767 : That was definitely a rumor but I could see DL waiting a while if/when they transition the airbaii to SLC. Because SLC is a hot and high destination
29 BinMonster : You conveniently omitted the additional flights and upgrades for CVG. June upgrade is loaded for CVG-LAX late pm flight with red eye return. July upg
30 Jkudall : As of June there will be 40 mainline flights per day at CVG (down from 56 in June '08) and 213 Connection flights per day (down from 280 June '08). Ov
31 Cubsrule : The 738 is a better hot and high performer than the (same size) 320, but is it also better than the 319? And, if so, is it enough better to make a di
32 Burnsie28 : Delta has also decided to drop DTW-Latrobe and DTW-Kitchener/Waterloo
33 Post contains links Humberside : Florida changes noted in a previous thread - http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...general_aviation/read.main/4399673
34 PSU.DTW.SCE : Are you serious? When? Sure looks like they are getting rid of most of the Saab flying out of DTW these days. LBE had done relatively well in the pas
35 PHXtoDCAtoMSP : Appears that they have taken ATLNRT #2 (777) out after the summer travel season. This doesn't surprise me based on what I have heard of the loads on A
36 AJMIA : I like these OAG Changes threads, but I personally think they would be a lot easier to read and respond to if each airline had its own OAG change thr
37 DeltaL1011man : IMO DL did this the wrong way. They should have started the 744 on a few days a week. 777 daily. I think once the econ gets better ATL-NRT should be
38 Enilria : I used to do that, but the moderators would delete them for various reasons. I think it would also create a lot of clutter.
39 Enilria : FYI, the BOS-BWI are indeed gone from Delta's website. Now service connects in JFK.
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