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Overhead Bins Open At Hard Landings...  
User currently offlineZKEOJ From New Zealand, joined Feb 2005, 1007 posts, RR: 6
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4338 times:

Hi All

I haven't found a question like this, so here it goes:

On another thread related to a hard landing and subsequent tail strike I just read:

"Wonder how many overhead bins popped open?"

We often read of incidents that overhead bins can (and do) open during severe turbulence and/or during hard landings. This made me think if it wasn't possible to sort of lock them on finals. That could be some kind of "central lock" that is a bit better/stronger than the normal closing lock. If it was a locking mechanism that is controllable by the FAs or from the flight deck, even during severe turbulence they could lock the bins (passengers are to be seated during that time anyway).

The only reason I can think of why that hasn't been done yet is that such a system adds weight to the aircraft.

Any thoughts?

Cheers
micha

13 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4082 times:



Quoting ZKEOJ (Thread starter):
The only reason I can think of why that hasn't been done yet is that such a system adds weight to the aircraft.

Weight's always a factor in everything aviation, so that's likely a big part of it. But, on top of that, what's the accident history of people being injured by stuff coming out of a popped-open bin? If nobody's ever been hurt, or if the rate of injury is really low (and likely not that severe either) then it may just not be worth it.

Tom.


User currently offlineJQFlightie From Australia, joined Mar 2009, 965 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3934 times:

ive been on a A/C were we had a hard landing and the Oxygen Mask have dropped ;o) so its possible..


Next Trip: PER-DPS-LOP-CGK-KUL-PVG-LHR, LCY-MAD-VLC, BCN-LYS-TLS-IST-JED-KUL-SGN-CAN-MEL
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6311 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3816 times:

I remember going down the runway for takeoff at ORD on a BA 744 to LHR a few years back when an overhead bin just popped open and a small (luckily light) bag banged a guy on his head. That could have been had if it was another other than a purse...

Hard takeoff I guess.  duck 


User currently offlineDavid L From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 9524 posts, RR: 42
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3772 times:



Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 1):
If nobody's ever been hurt, or if the rate of injury is really low (and likely not that severe either) then it may just not be worth it

Exactly, plus you introduce the possibility of the system malfunctioning, causing a delay while everybody waits to collect their belongings.


User currently offlineAndz From South Africa, joined Feb 2004, 8450 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3767 times:
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Cost, weight, no perceived benefit = no chance of it happening.


After Monday and Tuesday even the calendar says WTF...
User currently offlinePhelpsie87 From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 498 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3672 times:

Back in the day when UA used to operate the 742 on the DEN-ORD route, my first trip alone to visit my family in Chicago, we had this happen. It was the hardest landing to date in my decade and a half of flying commercially. We hit so hard that nearly every bin opened, several control panels (with hot live wires...haha), and a few O2 masks popped out. After clearing the runway, the captain came on apologizing saying "Air traffic control gave us the shortest runway our airplane is allowed to land on....on top of that you can blame the co-pilot" chuckling during that last part.

User currently onlineKELPkid From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 6370 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 3447 times:

Quoting Andz (Reply 5):
Cost, weight, no perceived benefit = no chance of it happening.

There is also safety critical equipment up there in the bins, like portable oxygen tanks, first aid kits, and the defibrillator. I would imagine that the safety and certification folks wouldn't be real keen on a system that locks the bins if there was the possibility that it could restrict access to such items which are stored in the bins...

[Edited 2009-05-10 22:22:02]


Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3205 times:

I was on a UAL 737-300 landing on 22R at ORD once and we banged down pretty hard.
While we taxied to the gate, the Captain came on the P A and commented about the Chicago weather and the landing. The last thing he said was " If you liked the landing, my name is Steve and if you didn't like it, your co- pilot today is Robert". Everyone got a laugh about that.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9585 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3175 times:

New overhead bins are designed to take a load of 16Gs. They are thoroughly tested to be able to meet compliance requirements.

A big problem is that when they get damaged due to use, they are not necessarily repaired by the airlines unless absolutely necessary. People slam bags into them. People bend them to fit more in the bin than is designed. Materials degrade over time. Fatigue damages the mechanisms.

A stronger mechanism could be designed, and they have been designed that way. Newer bins are more reliable. I think the initial design is what needs to be focused on. A secondary latching mechanism is not needed with proper designs that are maintained.

As far as secondary latching goes, some airlines like BA have had liners and netting installed in bins in the past to prevent items from falling when they are opened. The bigger risk to the airlines is when things fall when they are opened to have items retrieved. Pivot bins reduces this risk so liners won't be used in the future.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11262 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3034 times:



Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 9):
New overhead bins are designed to take a load of 16Gs

That can't be 16 g's without opening, but probably 16 g's without falling apart. 16 g's is not a hard landing, but a crash landing.



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User currently offlineBAViscount From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2338 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2999 times:



Quoting SW733 (Reply 3):
Hard takeoff I guess.

I remember being on a Northwest Orient (yes, that long ago!) 747 flight BOS-LGW when a ton of lockers popped open on takeoff from BOS. Luckily nothing fell out, although it was probably in the days before people tried to cram their whole baggage allowance into whatever they could carry on board so that they didn't have to wait for 20 minutes at LGW for their baggage to arrive!! It was worrying at the time, but we soon got over it when the free (at the time) bar cart was wheeled up the aisle!! Big grin



Ladies & gentlemen this is Captain Tobias Wilcock welcoming you aboard Coconut Airways flight 372 to Bridgetown Barb
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3098 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2985 times:

I remember an overhead bin almost opening after touchdown once, while a/c was still on runway.....but it was due to an idiot who stood up to get his luggage.....sat down pretty quickly when the nearest FA yelled at him... Big grin

User currently offlineZKEOJ From New Zealand, joined Feb 2005, 1007 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 2745 times:

Thanks for your opinions (and your stories), guys! Much appreciated. From what i read on Anet it sounded like it happens much more often. I saw it a few times as well, with nothing falling out, and with quite heavy stuff falling out. But as some of you suggested: It seems to be a matter of older designs, and the new ones should be less prone to pop during hard landing (or take-off  Wink

Cheers
micha


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