Luvflng From Costa Rica, joined Nov 2000, 178 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 6525 times:
In all honesty, would you think that UA mainline pilots would let management weasle them out of international flying? Since the negotiations with UA APLA started last month, EI IAD-MAD flying will be used as a concession from the management to give something back to the pilots. IMHO, you will never see EI flying for United.
Ualcsr From United States of America, joined May 2006, 482 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6386 times:
The article mentions that the two airlines will launch service from IAD to MAD in 2010. Is this part of the possible joint venture or did UA announce MAD service and I missed it?
Mercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 642 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6272 times:
'We are very excited by the potential of the partnership and believe that the unique combination of two leading transatlantic airlines can drive significant value for the shareholders of both companies,' commented Aer Lingus CEO Dermot Mannion.
....
Dermot Mannion left the CEO spot only 3 months after saying this...hmmmm
United From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 311 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6204 times:
Quoting Luvflng (Reply 1): In all honesty, would you think that UA mainline pilots would let management weasle them out of international flying? Since the negotiations with UA APLA started last month, EI IAD-MAD flying will be used as a concession from the management to give something back to the pilots. IMHO, you will never see EI flying for United.
Right on. The number one issue in the contract negotiations this time around is scope. Scope is the defining factor in how many flights may be outsourced and how many may be kept. This is nothing new; it exists with the ALPA agreement to allow UA a certain percentage of UX flying, which has in recent years vastly increased (with the advent of CR7s, E70s,..) and, arguably, taken away 737 flying from United pilots. Now, with the pending EI agreement, crews hired entirely separately from the UA and EI pool of pilots (and perhaps cabin crew too) will be used, paid far less than pilots at either existing entity, and will presumably used to an ever increasing number of transatlantic routes to cut staffing costs... just as the UX agreements have done to the smaller mainline UA jets flying.
In my opinion, the pilots at UA will never let this happen. I have heard, though, that the EI pilots unfortunately do not really have much say in the issue of scope within their contract.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22219 posts, RR: 51 Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6184 times:
While the pilots might not want this to happen, its nice pressure on them just in time for contract talks.
Who is to say UAL Corp cannot be successfully contract out some long haul flying ala UAX?
Frankly as a customer, I could care less as long as the product and price was good. And as an investor, as long as it made economic sense the more power to UA.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Eyeonthesky17 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 95 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5983 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5): Who is to say UAL Corp cannot be successfully contract out some long haul flying ala UAX?
This would all depend on how it affected the other carriers in UA's trans-Atlantic JV (LH, CO and AC). I don't think any of them were counting on sharing any revenues with EI.
Pinhammond From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2006, 36 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5836 times:
Writing as one who had negotiated 2 agreements to fly for a US carrier on sectors which had been flown on their own aircraft within Europe I can tell you that there is no way that ALPA will consider such an idea even for one micro-second.
PhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5754 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5): While the pilots might not want this to happen, its nice pressure on them just in time for contract talks.
Who is to say UAL Corp cannot be successfully contract out some long haul flying ala UAX?
Frankly as a customer, I could care less as long as the product and price was good. And as an investor, as long as it made economic sense the more power to UA.
Hate to burst your bubble, but the IPA, which represent the Aer Lingus pilots have made it clear this is DOA. Their contract has a scope clause which also prohibits an operation such as this.
What pressure is it for their contract? None at all. The company agreed to the scope language and that won't change without some large incentive.
As an investor, it makes no economic sense at all!
Ual777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 1492 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5667 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5): While the pilots might not want this to happen, its nice pressure on them just in time for contract talks.
Who is to say UAL Corp cannot be successfully contract out some long haul flying ala UAX?
Frankly as a customer, I could care less as long as the product and price was good. And as an investor, as long as it made economic sense the more power to UA.
That would be one of the quickest ways to bring on a strike.
I'm so tired of management trying to screw the employees.
DescendVia From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5494 times:
If anyone wants to see United survive DON'T support this flight. Don't allow UA management to break all the Unions and turn the airline into scab central!
COEI2007 From Vanuatu, joined Jan 2007, 1912 posts, RR: 6 Reply 11, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5064 times:
P**s off UA and EI unions at the same time? Not the smartest thing from UA and EI!
EI's former CEO had come up with this idea. He is now gone, so lets hope the idea is gone. Most airlines are cutting back transatlantic capacity, and a route like IAD-MAD on a 330 is madness at this time. It was supposed to be on sale last month, and still isnt, so that isnt a good sign. I doubt UA's partners would be to happy about having EI flying for them!!!
Alphaomega From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 533 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3927 times:
IAD-MAD was originally set out to be sold by UA and EI, with UA booking most of the seats and EI operating the route with their aircraft and personnel.
Why? Not sure, but I'm guessing we can get a good thread going about the why...
In any event, the daily IAD-MAD is scheduled to start next March, along with IAD-DUB going daily...so we shall see how it unfolds. UA and EI are already cooperating on the IAD-DUB route with mixed results.
Both the UAL and the EI pilot contracts have specific language that prohibits this type of operation. I can assure you, both pilot groups would let their airline go under rather than allow this operation to take place.
MIgAiR54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1280 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3416 times:
i think this flight will never take off, there aren´t enough traffic to support this operation and the IB, I think this venture won´t survive because the pilots unions in UA.
If the route is profitable why UA do not operate by themselves??
I think this move was to put some pressure before the negotiations with unions, we will never see EI flying for UA.
Also I can´t understand why EI was doing this to IB when they are partners in OW, it was a very weird movement.
Is EI planning to leave OW??
GT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1730 posts, RR: 3 Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 3404 times:
Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 22): Also I can´t understand why EI was doing this to IB when they are partners in OW, it was a very weird movement.
Is EI planning to leave OW??
Despite leaving One World, Aer Lingus kept most of their links with airlines in the alliance such as the British Airways code share which has been expanded to more Irish-London routes recently. They dropped the American Airlines code share in favour for a more extensive partnership with United which see's the UA code on all Aer Lingus transatlantic flights and the EI code on a number of domestic United flights. After leaving One World Aer Lingus also began their partnership with JetBlue which has proven very successful in the first year. I think Aer Lingus will feel the need to join an alliance again but I don't think it will be One Word, more likely is Star Alliance as they fly to more of their hubs and have this close relationship with United.
Shamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4041 posts, RR: 13 Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 3386 times:
Quoting Pinhammond (Reply 7): Writing as one who had negotiated 2 agreements to fly for a US carrier on sectors which had been flown on their own aircraft within Europe I can tell you that there is no way that ALPA will consider such an idea even for one micro-second.
It's funny Pinhammond, when ever it's something to do with Aer Lingus, you are "speaking as someone who has done..... such and such".
Can you give some back up perhaps?
It's just you said something similar when EI started its Gatwick ops...
Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
Joeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 876 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1645 times:
Still would like to know if it counts toward Lifetime United Flight Miles (million miler status) If it doesn't, then I will continue to connect in FRA or MUC, just like several other people that I know. I wish United would publish this.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22219 posts, RR: 51 Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 1635 times:
I dont believe so. BIS miles as I recall are for only from UAL+UAX metal.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
25 DeltaL1011man: If its in the contract that they cant then I would say you are right. If it isn't in the contract(and you can bet your a** that the other big 5 pilot
26 Joeljack: That's my understanding too but just thought I would ask because this is kind of a special circumstance.
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