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Why So Many UAX Airlines At IAD?  
User currently offlineDr.DTW From United States of America, joined May 2000, 290 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6013 times:

UAX has the following companies just at the IAD hub:

Mesa Airlines
Trans States Airlines
Colgan Air
GoJet
Chautauqua Airlines

Why so many?????

Ed.

34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5926 times:

IAD is United's main hub. All the UAX carriers operate different equipment to different regions, so that's why there are so many. I'm sure there's more to it than that, but it's a start.

User currently offlineFlying_727 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 435 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 5912 times:



Quoting Max550 (Reply 1):
IAD is United's main hub.

Um....No! ORD is United's main hub. IAD is UA's gateway to the east (internationally). There really is no strategy behind all of the carriers. It's based on total cost to UA. The carrier that provides the lowest total cost based on cost drivers, including: cash transaction, on-time performance, UP scores, cost of defect, etc.

Flying_727


User currently offlineMax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5841 times:



Quoting Flying_727 (Reply 2):
Um....No! ORD is United's main hub

Sorry, I meant to say one of their main hubs. Thanks for the correction.


User currently offlineBahadir From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1791 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5803 times:

YOu left out Shuttle America and SkyWest


Earthbound misfit I
User currently offlineMax550 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 5770 times:



Quoting Bahadir (Reply 4):
YOu left out Shuttle America and SkyWest

SkyWest doesn't fly out of Dulles. Shuttle America does though.


User currently offlineDr.DTW From United States of America, joined May 2000, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5734 times:

Comparing IAD to NW-DTW, since this is my home town..

NW's hub at DTW only has Mesaba, Pinnacle and Compass.

The DTW hub is significantly larger than IAD, with nearly 500 daily departures

So, I say again, I don't understand why UAX has at least 6 communter airlines, serving only a moderately sized hub. Why not just contract Mesa and Colgan to do there communter service??

Are the economics and markets different in this region? Or is it just a complicated corporate strategy??


User currently offlineAVION826 From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5724 times:

ORD is much the same. You have SkyWest, Shuttle America, GoJet, TransStates, Mesa there. SkyWest will be having a much bigger chunk this summer at ORD. Just got the bid packet, 20 more lines for CA/FOs.

Come to think of it, Denver has the same amount of UAX carriers, though SkyWest holds the biggest share by a good margin.

Los Angeles and San Francisco are exclusively SkyWest.


User currently offlineJsposaune From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 292 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5707 times:

back in 2001, US Airways Express had the following airlines flying out of the PIT hub:

-PSA -D328's
-Chataqua (later Shuttle America) -SF3's
-Colgan-Sf3's and B1900's
-Air Midwest- B1900's
-Trans States- ERJ's and J41's
-Mesa- ERJ's and CRJ's
-Piedmont- DH8's
-Allegheny (before the Allegheny/Piedmont merger)- DH8's

-Air Wisconsin was added to the mix a couple years later, after some of the PIT downsizing...

So, it's not unusual. It can be an operational nightmare sometimes, but unusual...no.



There are no stupid questions....only stupid people!!!
User currently offlineMjzair From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 401 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5684 times:

They may have also learned a lesson from the 2001 Comair strike.
Comair was the exclusive, or almost exclusive carrier for Delta out of CVG. The strike handcuffed Delta and forced the cancellation of all regional flights out of there.. With diversification, the strike of one carrier does not kill the airline.
Throw into the the confusion that Air Wisconsin does the ground handling for UAX at IAD and you have a huge number of regional operating at IAD for UA.


User currently offlineDurangoMac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 725 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5527 times:



Quoting AVION826 (Reply 7):
ORD is much the same. You have SkyWest, Shuttle America, GoJet, TransStates, Mesa there. SkyWest will be having a much bigger chunk this summer at ORD. Just got the bid packet, 20 more lines for CA/FOs.

DEN also has the same airline mix.

OO is starting 7 new lines of Pro-Rate flying in June with most of it in ORD so 20 more lines of pilots is not a surprise.


User currently offlineNW747-400 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5466 times:

Delta Connection carriers in CVG:

ASA
Chautauqua
Comair
Freedom
Mesaba
Pinnacle
Shuttle America
SkyWest

Its been a common theme to have lots of regional carriers supplying feed out of a hub. This strategy theoretically allows the hub to operate with as little interruption as possible if one particular carrier can not provide service. For example, the ASA maintenance debacle last month, or the Comair strike a few years ago.

SLC seems to be the only DL hub that doesn't have a lot regional carriers to feed it. SkyWest has maintained relative dominance in SLC while the occasional intruders such as ASA, Mesaba, ExpressJet, etc. come and go rather quickly.


User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5111 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5387 times:

When UA had all their eggs in the Atlantic Coast (later Independence Air) basket, they got caught with their pants down and had to scramble to replace the loss of ACA United Express flying.

Maybe UA doesn't want a repeat scenario.



Next Up: STL-LGA-RIC-ATL-STL
User currently offlineDeltaffindfw From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5357 times:



Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 12):
When UA had all their eggs in the Atlantic Coast (later Independence Air) basket, they got caught with their pants down and had to scramble to replace the loss of ACA United Express flying.

Maybe UA doesn't want a repeat scenario.

That's a great point. Maybe no one carrier had enough excess capacity to cover all of IAD, so they had to portion it out to mulitple carriers?


User currently offlineAzncsa4qf744er From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 692 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5138 times:



Quoting NW747-400 (Reply 11):
SkyWest has maintained relative dominance in SLC while the occasional intruders such as ASA, Mesaba, ExpressJet, etc. come and go rather quickly.

 bigthumbsup 

Quoting AVION826 (Reply 7):
Come to think of it, Denver has the same amount of UAX carriers, though SkyWest holds the biggest share by a good margin.

 bigthumbsup 

Los Angeles and San Francisco are exclusively SkyWest.

 bigthumbsup 

SkyWest Airlines is simply the best regional in the US. Sure they have their moments but they are best compares to other regional.


User currently offlineAviationnut12 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 171 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5046 times:

You can also add ExpressJet to the list of UAX carriers at IAD. I am scheduled to fly SAV-IAD in June on flight 5687 operated by an ERJ-145. Are they taking over some routes from Mesa, or just supplementing? We were scheduled on a Mesa CRJ at first.


Every choice is a step, steps become direction, direction determines destination
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23034 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5035 times:



Quoting Aviationnut12 (Reply 15):
Are they taking over some routes from Mesa, or just supplementing?

Supplementing for the summer... slightly more info here: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...general_aviation/read.main/4396553



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5970 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4701 times:



Quoting Aviationnut12 (Reply 15):
Are they taking over some routes from Mesa, or just supplementing?

They are covering for Mesa for a short time, I forget what the issue with Mesa was.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23034 posts, RR: 20
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4667 times:



Quoting United1 (Reply 17):
I forget what the issue with Mesa was.

It may not be any more than capacity-- this isn't the first time that UA has signed a short-term contract with XE.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineTinpusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4602 times:



Quoting Azncsa4qf744er (Reply 14):
SkyWest Airlines is simply the best regional in the US. Sure they have their moments but they are best compares to other regional.

No! Skywest is simply the largest regional without a union and therefore no legal right to strike!



"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineDurangoMac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 725 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4575 times:



Quoting Tinpusher007 (Reply 19):
No! Skywest is simply the largest regional without a union and therefore no legal right to strike!

That has nothing to do with it, OO continually scores higher on almost every metric when compared to other regionals regardless if the other has a union or not.

Think if it this way, the employees think that they're being treated fairly well and don't want/need a union so therefore no need to strike either.

Quoting United1 (Reply 17):
They are covering for Mesa for a short time, I forget what the issue with Mesa was.

I also noticed some TSA routes in there also.


User currently offlineTinpusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4541 times:



Quoting DurangoMac (Reply 20):
That has nothing to do with it, OO continually scores higher on almost every metric when compared to other regionals regardless if the other has a union or not.

Think if it this way, the employees think that they're being treated fairly well and don't want/need a union so therefore no need to strike either.

They may in fact have better numbers than their counterparts, but if you think the no union/no strike thing has NOTHING to do with it, I'd say your wrong.



"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5970 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4521 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 18):
It may not be any more than capacity-- this isn't the first time that UA has signed a short-term contract with XE.

I don't remember UA contracting with ExpressJet in the past , do you remember when it took place?



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23034 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4502 times:



Quoting United1 (Reply 22):
I don't remember UA contracting with ExpressJet in the past , do you remember when it took place?

I want to say late spring/early summer 2007, but I'm not 100% sure. Maybe I'm confusing it with the B6 contract when B6 was having 190 teething issues?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineNW747-400 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 502 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4498 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 23):
I want to say late spring/early summer 2007, but I'm not 100% sure. Maybe I'm confusing it with the B6 contract when B6 was having 190 teething issues?

No you are definitely correct. United did contract with ExpressJet in the very recent past. I can't remember when it was either. I'm guessing it was in summer 2007 because Mesa was having severe staffing issues at the time, and ExpressJet was contracted to provide temporary lift to relieve Mesa.


25 United1 : Maybe that's where I'm remembering the "Mesa is having issues" from....thanks for the information.
26 DurangoMac : It was for the Spring Break 2007 and if I remember correctly it was because Mesa not being able to handle a short time increase in flying in IAD.
27 Azncsa4qf744er : Summer 2007, based out of IAD. The "union" deal, that's another TOTALLY different issue and thread. Unionized or not, the fact still remain, OO is th
28 DurangoMac : Thank you, that was exactly what I was trying to say and you did it so much better!
29 Goldenshield : Not to nit-pick, but they were conSECUTIVE years. (Although, given the administration, they were also conservative years.) Also, OO has ranked higher
30 Azncsa4qf744er : My bad. Damn spell check!
31 Apodino : The whole Eggs in one basket deal aside, I have to agree with the OP, there is absolutely no need for this, and I think it causes more problems than i
32 Post contains links LAXintl : Search and you would find: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...general_aviation/read.main/3857247 Spring 2008
33 413x3 : IMO the biggest reason is each has their own airplane types. Certain airports use certain types because of weather, geography, etc. It is expensive fo
34 Panova98 : Just wondering, given the testimony we're hearing on the Colgan/Continental Express tragedy, and the seeming inability of the legacies to manage their
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