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Any Reason Why Air France Don't Fly LYS-LHR?  
User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1251 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4386 times:

Anyone know why Air France do not fly Lyon - London Heathrow? I think they use to? When did it stop and why? Too much competition from BA?

Air France flies to the following destinations outside of France (with their various franchises/subs), so it seems odd they do not serve London (but they do serve Birmingham!!)

Amsterdam
Barcelona
Basel/Mulhouse
Birmingham
Bologna
Brussels
Düsseldorf
Hamburg
Madrid
Milan-Malpensa
Munich
Prague
Rome-Fiumicino
Tunis
Venice-Marco Polo

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5300 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4326 times:



Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
Too much competition from BA?

Add Easyjet to LGW and Ryanair from St Ettienne to STN. And the TGV via Paris to London.
Probably overkill...

KL911


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7428 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4263 times:



Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):
Add Easyjet to LGW and Ryanair from St Ettienne to STN. And the TGV via Paris to London.
Probably overkill...

 checkmark 

Mostly O/D traffic, not enough profitable.
AF doesn't fly either on MRS-LON or NCE-LON for the same reasons (AF flies on NCE-LCY)

BA operates LYS-LHR to feed its main HUB.
AF does the same on MAN-CDG, while BA's operations on this route are negligible


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7737 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4230 times:

I think there may be a two-part answer as to why AF do not fly LYS-LHR.

BA flies from LHR tosix French destinations BSL, CDG, GVA, LYS, NCE and TLS from their main hub, LHR. The only AF flights from LHR are to CDG.

One of the two contributing reasons to this situation is the much higher costs of operations between two non hub airports.

The other is that for most airlines operating smaller commuter type aircraft into and out of LHR is not consumate with the potential value of the slots those aircraft would use. By this I mean that if you have a slot pair operating an LHR-LAX service or planning an LHR-JFK service usiung a 772 is potentially nore lucurative than operating LHR-LYS with an Avro Regional Jet.

As a result the only airlines operating commuter / regional type aircraft into LHR are LH (CRJs and RJ85s), KL (F50s) and BD (EMB135s and 145s). However even LH did not operate between the German capital and LHR until they bought BD, who now operate a three-times-daily TXL-LHR-TXL rotation on behalf of LH as, of course, LHR is their main hub.


User currently offlineAirbusA6 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2037 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4102 times:

I remember flying LYS-LHR nearly 20 years ago, when it was flown by a TAT F28 on behalf of AF. I had a student 'le Fly France' pass!

I don't know what happened to the former TAT/AF routes after BA took them over, but if they got absorbed into BA then this would explain why BA operate the route now, and not AF.



it's the bus to stansted (now renamed national express a4 to ruin my username)
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3970 times:



Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):
Ryanair from St Ettienne to STN

FR havent flown that route for a few years now

Quoting 8herveg (Thread starter):
I think they use to? When did it stop and why?

Last flown by BE as an AF franchise



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7719 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3927 times:



Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):
Add Easyjet to LGW and Ryanair from St Ettienne to STN

As pointed out above, No FR from St. Etienne these days, but there is in fact also an EasyJet flight from LYS to STN.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3927 times:



Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):
And the TGV via Paris to London.

Not exactly... I tried making this route work via train and could not get the itineraries to connect. The TGV to Paris from Lyon arrives at a different station than the Eurostar, so you'd have to traverse Paris by bus or cab to make the connection.

It is possible to find a Lyon-Lille train, where you can connect with a Eurostar coming from Brussels, but I could not book this route on either the SNCF or Eurostar website.


User currently offlineDanielb From Canada, joined May 2009, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3880 times:

I flew from LHR to LYS and Back in March of this year. I must admit, I was shocked, when I looked for specific flights between those two airports and BA was the only airline that flew a non-stop service?? I looked into the Eurostar/TGV, but the prices were lucrative compared!!

User currently offlineEdina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 747 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 3624 times:

Throughout the mid to late 80's & on to the early 90's AF flew many more regional destinations.....

LIL/SXB twice daily TAT F28
NTE daily TAT F28
LYS twice daily AF 732 or TAT F28
BOD daily TAT F28
TLS twice daily 732
MPL 10x weekly TAT F28 or Air Littoral EM2
NCE twice daily 727 or A300/310
MRS twice daily 732

and even a Saturday only 732 to BIQ



Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3564 times:

Delta gave three of its LHR slots to Delta so they could begin service there.

http://www.executivetravelmagazine.c...e/Delta+gets+Heathrow+slots?t=anon

Air France also now flies LAX-LHR as well which takes another of their slots.


User currently offlineRunway23 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Jan 2005, 2222 posts, RR: 35
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3551 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 10):
Air France also now flies LAX-LHR as well which takes another of their slots.

AF have stopped flying LHR-LAX since November last year.

The only route one might see is LYS-LCY on AF and even AF are not in a hurry to start that route.


User currently offlineDanielb From Canada, joined May 2009, 56 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3544 times:

That's ridiculous though!! Since when would you not service one of your own cities of over a million people (I believe), and at the same time be servicing another route in two completely different countries?? Whatever?!?!

User currently offlineTrintocan From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2000, 3257 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3500 times:

AF did the LHR - LAX route for several months last year following the Open Skies agreement between the US and the EU. The 777-200ER service was flown daily and was done in conjunction with DL. From these webpages I learnt that the reason AF did the route was to provide a premium product. Unfortunately the route failed in the face of a declining market and stiff competition from AA, UA, BA, VS and NZ - the latter having traffic rights on the leg as part of its onward service to AKL. It was nonetheless a reasonable attempt at a new service and when one considers that LHR is the only UK airport with any service to LAX the market is considerable.

About local airlines not serving domestic destinations - well this is something that arises in this forum on a regular basis. Suffice it to say that airlines are businesses and if it is seen that a particular route or destination is viable, then they would operate.

TrinToCan.



Hop to it, fly for life!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2834 times:

LHR slots are too valuable to use on a relatively low-yield O&D route like LHR-LYS. Better to use your slots to feed your major CDG hub where the revenue-generating possibilities are much higher with passengers connecting to/from AF worldwide routes.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 3):
I think there may be a two-part answer as to why AF do not fly LYS-LHR.

BA flies from LHR tosix French destinations BSL, CDG, GVA, LYS, NCE and TLS from their main hub, LHR. The only AF flights from LHR are to CDG.

GVA is in Switzerland (almost on the French border), but assume you are referring to GVA serving the relatively small neighbouring communities in France. The city of Basel is of course also in Switzerland but the airport (Basel-Mulhouse) is physically entirely in France and serves both cities as well as neighbouring communities in Germany.


User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2832 times:



Quoting Runway23 (Reply 11):
AF have stopped flying LHR-LAX since November last year.

You're right. Sorry.

Quoting Trintocan (Reply 13):
About local airlines not serving domestic destinations - well this is something that arises in this forum on a regular basis. Suffice it to say that airlines are businesses and if it is seen that a particular route or destination is viable, then they would operate.

Viable or not has very little to do with it. LYS to LHR is probably very viable. But Heathrow is a slot-restricted airport with BA, VS, and BM taking up most of the slots. As far as I can see, Air France appears to have only 9 flights per day into LHR all of them from CDG. Attempting to fly from LYS would require them to reduce service from Paris.


User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7737 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2647 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
GVA is in Switzerland (almost on the French border), but assume you are referring to GVA serving the relatively small neighbouring communities in France. The city of Basel is of course also in Switzerland but the airport (Basel-Mulhouse) is physically entirely in France and serves both cities as well as neighbouring communities in Germany.

Yes. I included GVA in my list because although the airport is in Switzerland you can effectively exit the airport directly into France. I included BSL as it is in France although it was built primarilly with Swiss money and you can cross from France into Switzerland (and vice-versa) within the airport.


User currently offlineNcelhr From Vatican City, joined Jul 2006, 359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2597 times:

Historically, AF used to fly the LHR-NCE route as well, and used to share the route with BA. In fact, there was a time when you used to be able to mix the ticket (AF/BA) (80s). I'm not sure whether it was called code sharing then...

Then British Midland (now BMI) got on the route as well, and AF then dropped out, then code shared with BMI. Then Easyjet entered the game between London and Nice. BMI dropped out as well, so only BA flies the route, although with heavy metal & high frequency.

Other London airports are now also all serving NCE, with the latest BA/AF battle taking place from LCY, where BA started a route & Air France did a "me too" through CityJet.

AF's strategy of promoting their main CDG hub at all costs doesn't help it retain market share from the French provinces. It is losing traffic both at NCE & LYS. It is a shame, really. When you think that there are more daily seats between NCE & LHR than NCE & CDG, you'll understand.


User currently offlineSemsem From Israel, joined Jul 2005, 1779 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2441 times:

I am surprised. The first international route apart from North Africa was Lyon to London and Milan on a Vickers Viscount.

I flew LYS to London in the mid 1960s. In the winter the flights were often delayed so I took the train.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2411 times:



Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 17):
Historically, AF used to fly the LHR-NCE route as well, and used to share the route with BA. In fact, there was a time when you used to be able to mix the ticket (AF/BA) (80s). I'm not sure whether it was called code sharing then...

It was called "pooling" then. Those "pool services" were very common in those days, especially within Europe, but also on many longhaul routes (except the USA where it would have been illegal due to antitrust laws). The two carriers that were party to the pool agreement shared revenues and expenses and decided which carrier would operate which flights.


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