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New DL 764 Biz Product  
User currently offlineAvi8tir From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 411 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6868 times:
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I saw on widgetheads that the 1st aircraft are in for the upgrade. What is the proposed schedule for upgrading the 764 fleet? What routes will these aircraft be put on or will it be random?

thanks!


*Long live the Widget*
21 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6778 times:

Actually, those are #2 and #3 in. Ship 1804 got them a while ago. However, after receiving new paint as well, it's been sitting in ATL and has yet to make a flight with the new seats. Last I heard they are still waiting on final paperwork.

As for the schedule, like I said 1804 is complete. And as you saw on my site, 1805 went in on 04MAY and 1807 went in on 08MAY. Both are due out after 17MAY. I'm not sure of the exact dates yet. And no more are planned to go in until after 17MAY (probably once these two come out).

I'm not sure about routing. I have a feeling they'll be mixed in for now. Perhaps once there are a few more they will be a little choosy with where they send them.

Defiantly keep an eye on my website for news about 1804's first flight.


User currently offlineNWA757300 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 299 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6693 times:

The 7 aircraft that are getting the new lie flat seats will be primarily serving the LHR market.

User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6646 times:

It will be interesting to see what markets these go to....I suspect LHR--JFK will get it first (just a guess). Also, I wonder if they will to markets DL put a 767 where NW had a A330 before (for example PDX -- NRT or something similar).

Of course, on some markets, the A330 has replaced the 767 (for example ATL -- FCO).

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4927 posts, RR: 25
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 6556 times:
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The markets currently scheduled for the 7 this summer are:

JFK-LHR (2x daily)
ATL-LHR (1x daily)
DTW-LHR (1x daily)
JFK-VCE (1x daily)
JFK-SVO (1x daily)

When ship 1804 finally goes into service, it should be doing a JFK-LHR-DTW-LHR-JFK rotation (operating DL003 JFK-LHR and DL004 LHR-JFK). That one JFK-LHR flight and the DTW-LHR flight should be the first ones.....DTW-LHR is getting it by default because of the way the LHR schedules are set up....


User currently offlineAirCanadaA330 From Canada, joined Aug 2008, 294 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6398 times:



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 1):
after receiving new paint as well, it's been sitting in ATL and has yet to make a flight with the new seats

when you say new paint are we talking about the Skyteam livery or the new Delta livery?

I would love to see the 764 in the new Delta colours!


When does ship 1804 start flying again?


Cheers;



Cheers;
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4927 posts, RR: 25
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6389 times:
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Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Reply 5):
when you say new paint are we talking about the Skyteam livery or the new Delta livery?

I would love to see the 764 in the new Delta colours!

Ship 1804 is in the new Delta colors.

Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Reply 5):
When does ship 1804 start flying again?

They are hoping that everything will be cleared up by the end of the week...


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6301 times:
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Quoting Panamair (Reply 4):
JFK-LHR (2x daily)
ATL-LHR (1x daily)
DTW-LHR (1x daily)
JFK-VCE (1x daily)
JFK-SVO (1x daily

This uses only 6 frames. Any info on where the other one goes ?



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineIntl767400 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 19 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6098 times:

Do not get excited about the new lie flat product. I have talked to 2 people that have sat in the new seats and they both gave it terrible reviews. Comments.......almost as narrow as a coach seat.......takes an instruction manuel to get the tray out of its holder.................cheap thin looking plastic on the back of the seat............the area for your feet in the lie config. is so narrow it binds your feet. Both sources confirmed that Richard Anderson was very disappointed with the new product and question that any more than the original 7 will be this brand of seat. Consistent bad reviews. I hope to see it soon and I will give my review.

User currently offlineCvg2lga From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 633 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6063 times:

If the above statement about Anderson's disappointment is true then why didn't Delta go with the seats NW currently uses on the A330 & 747 (that I know of). Having flown the ATL-HNL-ATL route few times last month and the A330 from MSP-ATL I found the seats the best I've ever been in. Much better than the current Delta Business Elite seats I've sat in.

Tchau

DA-



They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5834 times:

So you don't miss it, here's an update, posted on my site, http://www.widgetheads.net

Quote:
Well first off, 1804 is still on the ground in ATL. It's first flight has now been pushed back until 5/16. Also, a few corrections to the list. 1805 and 1807 are not currently getting seats. While it was originally planned for them to be getting them at this time, that has been pushed back as well. 1805 returned to service tonight after some regular checks. It is scheduled to be back in ATL to begin the seat mod on 5/18. 1807 returned to service after a #2 engine change. It is scheduled to be back in ATL to begin the seat mod on 5/23. As always, I will keep you posted if I hear anything new.



Quoting Intl767400 (Reply 8):
Do not get excited about the new lie flat product. I have talked to 2 people that have sat in the new seats and they both gave it terrible reviews. Comments.......almost as narrow as a coach seat.......takes an instruction manuel to get the tray out of its holder.................cheap thin looking plastic on the back of the seat............the area for your feet in the lie config. is so narrow it binds your feet. Both sources confirmed that Richard Anderson was very disappointed with the new product and question that any more than the original 7 will be this brand of seat. Consistent bad reviews. I hope to see it soon and I will give my review.

I've been hearing the exact same things, unfortunately.


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3217 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5729 times:



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 10):
I've been hearing the exact same things, unfortunately.

Well when all the foreigners gave our honest opinion that it looked like crap we got flamed.... We all said this was not the time to cut corners and looking at what the competition had done, DL's product still didn't look up to standard despite being fully flat...(looking for example at what both United and BA had done)... and that Swiss...who are using the exact base for their new seat, had managed to make the product look far more professional.
I say Now is the time for DL to make the switch before it costs too much. If they're contractually locked in, then time to higher a smart industrial designer and give the thing a designer look and hopefully make a few changes to iron out some of the problems. If they're not contractually locked in... time to go to the competition... call up the guys who designed LAN's outfit, United's new seat, BA's new seat etc for some ideas and imput. Yes they're going to have to spend more... purely on styling... but the result will be worth it. Rememeber folks, the devil is in the detail! And this is DL's best offering... so it should make an impact. It should have that WOW factor when you walk in the cabin.


User currently offline9V-SPJ From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 752 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4277 times:

I had a look at the seats in the TOC in late March and they are terrible. As mentioned above, very narrow, very difficult to get the tray table out and it just looks very cramped.

9V-SPJ


User currently offlineIncitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4033 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4045 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 7):
This uses only 6 frames. Any info on where the other one goes ?

Even though it is six transatlantic roundtrips, it uses the 7 frames because of the timings of the departures from JFK. The second trip from London arrives JFK 8:25 pm. The second trip to London from JFK leaves at 8:30 pm.

Even if the second trip to London from JFK was moved to say 10pm, the seventh frame would likely be needed to have the 7 aircraft cycle through regular maintenance. Considering that the interior is new, there may be more bugs that need to be fixed so in case one of the planes is not in good condition, DL can just delay the second JFK-LHR and pull an airplane out of the schedule for service.



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User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17671 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3810 times:



Quoting Intl767400 (Reply 8):
Comments.......almost as narrow as a coach seat

EK's similar layout in J also has incredibly narrow seats (for J).

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 11):
and that Swiss...who are using the exact base for their new seat

They're also using it on a wider plane.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1187 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3738 times:

Initially the plan was to convert all 764 and 763 to lay flat seats. FWIU
then new plan is to convert 7 764's for this summer and have surveys taken.
Then go from there. I bet Panamair would have more info. This is from what
I have read from Delta.


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4927 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3706 times:
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Quoting Cvg2lga (Reply 9):
then why didn't Delta go with the seats NW currently uses on the A330 & 747 (that I know of).

Because the NW seats are not true 180 degree flat seats; they are the angled-lie-flat seats; personally, I even prefer the cradle/'la-z-boy type seats to the angled lie-flats as it often feels like I'm sliding to the bottom of the seat.

Quoting Intl767400 (Reply 8):
.......almost as narrow as a coach seat.......

This I don't understand...the coach seats on the 767s are 18 inches wide. The current BusinessElite seats on the 767s are 18.5 inches wide. These new Thompson Vantage seats are supposed to be 22" wide (even wider than the 21" BusinessElite seats today on the 77E)...perhaps people expect the seat to be wide enough that they can turn easily while sleeping?

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
They're also using it on a wider plane.

If I'm not mistaken, doesn't Swiss have 5 across in J on the A333 vs DL's 4 across on the 764?

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 11):
Yes they're going to have to spend more... purely on styling... but the result will be worth it

But if the complaints so far are correct (i.e., too narrow, feet wedged, etc.) then the issue seems not to be about the cosmetic stuff but rather the structure of the seat, which LX would also have an issue with (my colleagues who have flown the LX J seat on the A333 have also commented on the narrowness of the seat). If that's the case, then no amount of improved styling is going to make one sleep better....


User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 970 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3688 times:

Any pictures of the new product?


seemyseems
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4927 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3637 times:
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Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 17):
Any pictures of the new product?

There is a computer-generated image in here for the 767-400D:

http://www.delta.com/traveling_check..._services/lie_flat_seats/index.jsp

Quoting CokePopper (Reply 15):
Initially the plan was to convert all 764 and 763 to lay flat seats. FWIU then new plan is to convert 7 764's for this summer and have surveys taken.
Then go from there. I bet Panamair would have more info. This is from what
I have read from Delta.

Yes, I believe only 7 are scheduled for conversion this summer or even year...


User currently offlineDLDTW1962 From United States of America, joined May 2009, 393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3584 times:

Can't wait to see the B767-400 in DTW.

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17671 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3571 times:



Quoting Panamair (Reply 16):
If I'm not mistaken, doesn't Swiss have 5 across in J on the A333 vs DL's 4 across on the 764?

DL has 4 across, alternating, while LX alternates between 4 and 5. On DL's seatmap it looks like it's pretty much 8 across

http://www.delta.com/planning_reserv...r_transatlantic_lie_flat/index.jsp
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Del...elta_Airlines_Boeing_767-400_B.php

Quoting Panamair (Reply 16):
These new Thompson Vantage seats are supposed to be 22" wide (even wider than the 21" BusinessElite seats today on the 77E

It depends where you measure of course. I haven't seen the seat in person but it certainly looks like it has the potential to be very narrow--but plenty of carriers with true lie flat have very narrow seats in J. It's the tradeoff you have to make.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4927 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3325 times:
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Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 20):
but plenty of carriers with true lie flat have very narrow seats in J.

That's true...both BA and VS's full-flat J seats are both quite narrow...and though SQ does have a wide J seat (on the 77W and A380), full-flat sleeping does have to be done diagonally, which does limit the width a little....


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