MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31155 posts, RR: 76 Posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13995 times:
Virgin America has let public their ten most requested routes, half of which are routes to Miami or Chicago. Kind of cool that VX made the Top 10 public.
1. San Francisco - Chicago
2. San Francisco - Honolulu
3. San Francisco - Miami
4. Los Angeles - Miami
5. San Francisco - Portland
6. Los Angeles - Chicago
7. San Francisco - Phoenix
8. New York City - Miami
9. San Francisco - Denver
10.Los Angeles - Portland
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14411 posts, RR: 26 Reply 2, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13844 times:
Quoting AirCanadaA330 (Reply 1): Do they plan to start flying any of these routes?
Well, there were the plans for Chicago flights until they were unable to get gates on their terms. And there have been plenty of rumors floating around here about Miami, but I really doubt we will see HNL on their route map anytime soon. That just doesn't fit very well with them.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
Ssublyme From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 504 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13775 times:
I'm suprised SFO - MIA tops LAX - MIA. I would have thought ATL would have made a top ten.
Atomsareenough From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 544 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13780 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2): I really doubt we will see HNL on their route map anytime soon. That just doesn't fit very well with them.
Really? I kind of think it does. I imagine Hawaii traffic to be similar to the upscale and trendy demographic they are marketing to otherwise. Furthermore, since Aloha and ATA went under, there's less capacity to the islands, and while the distances are similar to SFO-JFK type transcon flying, the fares are a lot higher to fly that distance to Hawaii. Granted, you have to carry extra fuel/equipment and have ETOPS certification, but I can imagine VX making Hawaii work... So why do you think it doesn't fit?
MHTripple7 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1055 posts, RR: 5 Reply 5, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13711 times:
Too bad SFO-TPA isn't on there. Probably wouldn't work anyway but it would be cool to have. I wouldn't be surprised to see VX to enter MIA next. I could see them doing very well.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14411 posts, RR: 26 Reply 6, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13710 times:
It is traditionally low yielding, and according to some on here, a lot of Hawaii bound pax get their seats using FF miles. If you look at the routes they already fly, they are almost all heavily business routes. VX seems to want the young saavy business traveler more than the vacation crowd.
And consider the economy. Many people are simply staying home, but businesses still need to send their employees on business trips, but are looking for cheaper ways to do it. So an airline with a relatively cheap, relatively premium (even in Y) product could do quite well.
Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31155 posts, RR: 76 Reply 7, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13672 times:
Quoting Atomsareenough (Reply 4): Really? I kind of think it does. I imagine Hawaii traffic to be similar to the upscale and trendy demographic they are marketing to otherwise. Furthermore, since Aloha and ATA went under, there's less capacity to the islands, and while the distances are similar to SFO-JFK type transcon flying, the fares are a lot higher to fly that distance to Hawaii. Granted, you have to carry extra fuel/equipment and have ETOPS certification, but I can imagine VX making Hawaii work... So why do you think it doesn't fit?
It might be costly to outfit the entire fleet with the necessary equipment or, in the alternative, it might be costly to operate a sub-fleet of so equipped planes.
Furthermore, the fares to Hawai'i from the West Coast are most likely not "a lot higher" than to New York. While I don't know average DOT average fares to Hawai'i, I truly doubt they are higher than the average JFK-SFO fare of $348 each way.
BigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2762 posts, RR: 7 Reply 8, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13611 times:
I could see Chicago, Portland and Miami being the next three added to VX's network. Hawaii? I'm not so sure right now.
Roseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8787 posts, RR: 52 Reply 10, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 2 days ago) and read 13369 times:
1. San Francisco- Chicago
I think this has great potential.
2. San Francisco - Honolulu
Are they willing to go ETOPS? The A319 can do it and they have a year of service history to help support the ops. I think they'd do very well and the competitors on the route aren't as blood thirsty as they are on other VX routes.
3. San Francisco - Miami
Good potentetial.
4. Los Angeles - Miami
Again, very reasonable.
5. San Francisco - Portland
Within weeks, I'm sure AS would go back to mainline on the route and dump capacity.
6. Los Angeles - Chicago
A huge route that has a lot of potential. Would MDW work? Do they want to compete with WN?
7. San Francisco - Phoenix
WN would fight them hard just like they are on SFO-SNA. WN has big pockets and totally can win.
8. New York City - Miami
Interesting choice. It would be interesting to see what jetBlue would do. NYC - Florida has seen a dramatic increase in service since jetBlue came, so I don't think there is much potential left.
9. San Francisco - Denver
Could be some potential. I'm not sure if Denver is a trendy destination they want to go for as F9 is already there.
10.Los Angeles - Portland
Again, Alaska will fight hard. We'll only see this route happen if the SEA routes are doing well and with all the information out there, I don't think that is so true. SEA is bigger than PDX and it is a bloodbath now. AS will fight for its turf.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
Sflaflight From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 1182 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12719 times:
Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 5): I wouldn't be surprised to see VX to enter MIA next.
I can't believe they aren't at MIA already. It is a PERFECT VX market - MIA could even be a focus city for them. VX likes cool upbeat and upscale markets and MIA is just that. Plus, many routes are AA monopolies that VX could compete with.
Quoting Ssublyme (Reply 3): I'm suprised SFO - MIA tops LAX - MIA
I'm not. First, VX home is SFO and so the survey responders might have skewed that plus it has limited AA service for a market of its size. LAX-MIA on the other hand has become an AA powerhouse. It has plenty of service on AA (though it could use another airline) with even dedicated 777 service. MIA-SFO is in much more of need of service than LAX-MIA
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31155 posts, RR: 76 Reply 13, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12678 times:
Quoting Sflaflight (Reply 12):
I can't believe they aren't at MIA already. It is a PERFECT VX market - MIA could even be a focus city for them. VX likes cool upbeat and upscale markets and MIA is just that. Plus, many routes are AA monopolies that VX could compete with.
They probably would have been at MIA already if it weren't for airlines drastically cutting Boston-California capacity last year that create a huge whole for VX to fill.
Whosee From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 64 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12435 times:
Does anyone think VX could operate transcon's out of SJC to JFK, BOS, IAD? There is only a single B6 flight SJC-JFK (2x daily during summer). I know SJC is so close SFO, but there would be no competition to BOS or IAD.
Connies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 3892 posts, RR: 13 Reply 15, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 12007 times:
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 7): It might be costly to outfit the entire fleet with the necessary equipment or, in the alternative, it might be costly to operate a sub-fleet of so equipped planes.
IIRC, when AC fitted 4 (?) of their A319s for overwater ops to support YYT - LHR, it set them back about $2M (Cdn), all for a service that only lasted about five months. The a/c were not officially ETOPS-certified, as the flight is only 4 1/2 hours eastbound, but did have additional comm equipment and rafts. They have a handful of 320s in this config for Caribbean routes as well, usually listed in the sked as 32M.
PVD757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3375 posts, RR: 18 Reply 16, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10822 times:
What does everyone feel about their chances on the soon to be yield bathed BOS-LAX route? I'd imagine they will stick it out as long as they can, but it will surely be a battle. I'd think BOS-MIA could hold some possibilities for VX.
B752OS From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10613 times:
Quoting Whosee (Reply 14): Does anyone think VX could operate transcon's out of SJC to JFK, BOS, IAD? There is only a single B6 flight SJC-JFK (2x daily during summer). I know SJC is so close SFO, but there would be no competition to BOS or IAD.
I think a BOS-SJC run could do well. The market is there and since B6 left it has been a whole in BOS-Bay Area.
Mir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 19813 posts, RR: 56 Reply 18, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10405 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2): I really doubt we will see HNL on their route map anytime soon. That just doesn't fit very well with them.
I think it fits very well, if they're willing to go to the expense of getting ETOPS-certified (which I'm not sure they are). Maybe not in the economy the way it is right now, but I'd expect to see it on the route map at some point.
Quoting Ssublyme (Reply 3): I would have thought ATL would have made a top ten.
ATL, relatively speaking, is not a huge market, so I'm not surprised it got left off.
A huge route that has a lot of potential. Would MDW work? Do they want to compete with WN?
As much as it pains me to admit it, it would be easier to compete with UA on LAX-ORD than WN on LAX-MDW.
Quoting Connies4ever (Reply 15): The a/c were not officially ETOPS-certified, as the flight is only 4 1/2 hours eastbound, but did have additional comm equipment and rafts.
The way I see it, they would have needed at least ETOPS 120 for YYT-LHR if they wanted to avoid some massive detours. SFO-HNL would require ETOPS 180.
-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
Live2fly83 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 151 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10381 times:
Quoting BMI727 (Reply 2): I really doubt we will see HNL on their route map anytime soon. That just doesn't fit very well with them.
there not even ETOPS certified
could the 319 even make flight?
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16316 posts, RR: 52 Reply 20, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10359 times:
Live2fly83 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 151 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10360 times:
Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 11): Instead of Denver, I could see seasonal Vail service from LAX and SFO.
Travelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3316 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9016 times:
I'm surprised no SFO/LAX-DFW or SFO/LAX-IAH. Minimal UA flights on either route, and yes, entrenched incumbents on the DFW/IAH side, but I think VX could capture some of that market.
BMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 14411 posts, RR: 26 Reply 23, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9004 times:
Cptspeaking From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 639 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (4 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 8688 times:
SFO-HNL is about a 5 hour flight...my VX flight IAD-SFO on a 319 last Friday was 6 hours 10 minutes. ETOPS certification is limiting on that route, not the range, and it isn't cheap...
...and don't call me Shirley!!
25 Cubsrule: VX could have been in MDW yesterday. They clearly want ORD (whether that's a good choice is a different question).
26 MAH4546: Honestly, though, the day that Virgin America announces MIA (which is definitely when, not if), I think JetBlue will announce MIA within a week after
27 Atomsareenough: Definitely. Besides, VX is trying to target UA and AA rather than WN anyway. Certainly. the 319 has a 3,700 nm range... LAX-HNL is 2220 nm and SFO-HN
28 SFONative: I would love to see this route, also for my own selfish reasons. I know it is probably based on demand, but non-stop SFO service to the West Coast of
29 Congaboy: ...and what a target-rich environment that is. That is why ORD is so important; it's true head-to-head, and I think even with Chicago loyalty for UA,
30 Live2fly83: o right, tnx going back to range again the 320 wouldnt be able to make though right? I remember b6 saying one reason they dont fly the rt beside (com
31 Cubsrule: Honestly, VX would have had an easier time getting gates 6 months ago. The DL/NW/B6/AA/CO gate shuffle may leave only one available gate, and they wa
32 Danielb: What about a serivce from BOS to YUL?? The people from Montreal are funky, young and have a high business traveller content. Surely this route would w
33 Congaboy: Can one of these carriers sub-lease, or is that not allowed in their lease contracts with the DOA? BTW, I am wearing my Cubs hat proudly today...even
34 Cubsrule: Someone (CO?) offered to sublease to VX last time around. Apparently, the lease terms were not to VX's liking. The trouble is that both CO and DL are
35 AirframeAS: With the way thinks are looking at VX right now, IMO: Agreed. Now, in theory, if they were to start HNL trips, what would they use? Their 319's are n
36 FRNT787: DFW-LAX (area, not just LAX) is packed with flights from AA. WN offers flights with stops, and will soon be able to fly direct. Then not to mention t
38 Mir: I've never thought of BOS-YUL as being a market that could fill a 319 or 320 on a regular basis. AC might be able to, but they have a hub on one end.
39 727LOVER: Has VX publicly said they prefer MIA over FLL?
40 MAH4546: They have publicly said Miami is on their radar. Why wouldn't they prefer it, though? MIA is far more suited to their demographics.
41 Yellowstone: Unfortunately, the only route I'd be able to fly them on, BOS-SEA (aka flying home from college), is already covered nonstop by AS and B6, so I doubt
42 ScottB: I doubt there would be any problem with an A319 making it to Hawaii, but I could see MX support being a bit thorny. Has anyone ever used Airbus narro
43 MAH4546: MIA-LAX and PHL-LAX have nearly identical average oneway fares, $300 each, and the Miami-Los Angeles market is roughly 35% larger. PHL-SFO has an ave
44 AirframeAS: AFAIK, no. I think HP pondered the idea of trying it on the 320's but couldn't do it because they said something about weight restrictions??
45 CV880: Aside from ETOPS certification, SFO-HNL is well covered by UA/AA/DL(NW)/HA, but SFO-OGG is covered only by UA with no competition. The fares are high
46 ScottB: No, the Miami-Fort Lauderdale-West Palm-LAX market is roughly 30% larger. However, MIA isn't a realistic option for most people in Palm Beach County
47 N623JB: JetBlue would do JFK-MIA, I think, because Florida is "New Yorks 6th borough".
48 MAH4546: Except market size is best measured by metropolitan area and fare is best measured by individual airport, since within a market people are willing to
49 ScottB: Yes, you're looking at 2Q08 while I'm looking at 3Q08. Traffic and fare erosion in the MIA markets was more significant than in the PHL markets due t
50 Bobnwa: Why do you think it would be "cool route to have"?
51 Gojetset: Although I know SFO is Virgin America's hub, can we expect to see future operations at other bay area airports? (Mainly, SJC, especially with their ne
52 OB1504: Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you flew in/out of MIA?
53 BigGSFO: I always thought SJC would be a good station for VX - perhaps SJC-LAX, SJC-SAN, SJC-SAN and SJC-JFK.
54 LongHauler: The two A319s fitted for YYT-LHR were certified ETOPS 120 minutes, and yes it was about CAD 1.3M each, but that also included the XM interior and pai
55 Connies4ever: Tx for the clarification, Longhauler.
56 USAirALB: BDL???? They could support service to LAX and SFO. I believe they need to expand to smaller cities, I mean they shouldn't call themselves Virgin AMERI
57 BayAreaBlue: Not for very long. Remember AS will start service to OGG & KOA from OAK starting in Nov.
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