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Virgin A340 Near Crash Due To Microburst  
User currently offlineBALandorlivery From UK - England, joined Jan 2005, 360 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 25669 times:

I heard on the grapevine that a VS A340 encountered a microburst on approach to Dubai.

TOGA applied and aircraft carried on sinking, recovering only 20 feet above the water!

If this is true then they have done a good job of keeping it quiet.
I have been told that this happened a few weeks ago now.

Anybody know anything?

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8551 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 25609 times:
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Quoting BALandorlivery (Thread starter):
I heard on the grapevine that a VS A340 encountered a microburst on approach to Dubai.

since , at this stage , this is only an unsubstantiated rumour perhaps your topic should have had a question mark in the title?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 23914 times:



Quoting BALandorlivery (Thread starter):
I heard on the grapevine that a VS A340 encountered a microburst on approach to Dubai.

Is this really the season for microbursts in the Middle east? Once you get past February the weather is normally constant (Hot and stable) till February next year.

This event was obviously not newsworthy.


User currently offlineBALandorLivery From UK - England, joined Jan 2005, 360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 22009 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 2):
This event was obviously not newsworthy.

I suspect that if true then it will be very newsworthy.

There are a lot of flight crew around where I live and a few are talking about it.

I'm not convinced that one of them just made it up.

I guess that we will find out in due course. I suspect that if it's as serious as is thought then the AAIB would investigate.


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8551 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 19700 times:
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I have checked on another site which is always a hotbed of gossip ( the one that starts with P and ends with a dried plum ) and there is nothing mentioned there . Knowing how quick people are on that site to pick up on gossip , and bearing in mind that absolutely no evidence has been posted on this thread to back up the OP I have to say that I am very skeptical about this 'incident'


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineJuventus From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 2835 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 18882 times:



Quoting BALandorlivery (Thread starter):
TOGA applied and aircraft carried on sinking, recovering only 20 feet above the water!

"20 feet over the water"???? somebody watched one James Bond movie too many


User currently offlineCARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 820 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 18672 times:



Quoting Juventus (Reply 5):
"20 feet over the water"???? somebody watched one James Bond movie too many

Never say never ... ^^


Someone checked avherald? They reporting about every broken lavatory door, so chances are high they have something over there if it is true...


User currently offlineHywel From Uganda, joined Apr 2008, 802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 18626 times:

I've just emailed a good friend who's an A340 F/O with VS - I'll see what he says.

User currently offlineHotelmode From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 460 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 18383 times:

There was an incident at HKG many years ago when VS first introduced the A340-300 and this just sounds like a rehash of that. Frankly with the threshold of DXB being 2 miles inland they would have had to drop nearly 1000ft, it would be all over the press were it true.

User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17767 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 2):
This event was obviously not newsworthy.

How do you figure that? Microbursts are becoming evermore dangerous in aviation. For those of us living in the U.S. we all saw what it's relative, a downburst, did to the Dallas Cowgirls practice facility. Pilots are trained to avoid microbursts, but I have to wonder if there is some early warning system, because if not, it is time for one. The early warning system cannot happen when the plane enters the microburst.



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineBorism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 17197 times:



Quoting CARST (Reply 6):
Quoting Juventus (Reply 5):
"20 feet over the water"???? somebody watched one James Bond movie too many

Never say never ... ^^

Ground effect would have kicked in 180 feet above that for A340.


User currently offlineCloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2454 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 16156 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 9):
Microbursts are becoming evermore dangerous in aviation.

Are they getting stronger or what? In what way are they "becoming ever more dangerous" compared to say, last September? This statement makes no sense.



A310/A319/20/21/A332/3/A343/6/A388/B732/5/7/8/B742/S/4/B752/B763/B772/3/W/E145/J41/MD11/83/90
User currently offlineBALandorLivery From UK - England, joined Jan 2005, 360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 15459 times:



Quoting Juventus (Reply 5):
"20 feet over the water"???? somebody watched one James Bond movie too many

This is the account that I have been told and which I am relaying in this forum.



Apparently there were 3 flighdeck crew on the flight.


User currently offlineBassbonebobo From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 14848 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 9):
the Dallas Cowgirls practice facility

 rotfl 

Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 9):
I have to wonder if there is some early warning system

NASA did some some research into this back in the late 80's and early 90's. You can read about the flight tests here. http://oea.larc.nasa.gov/trailblazer/SP-4216/chapter5/ch5.html



Rule #176. Any device that can crawl across the table on medium, does not need to be brought into the office.
User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 720 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 14159 times:
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Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 9):
Dallas Cowgirls practice facility.

Giants fan here but I think that's inappropriate considering people are paralyzed from it.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1):

since , at this stage , this is only an unsubstantiated rumor perhaps your topic should have had a question mark in the title?

 checkmark  - You would think that there would also be a regulatory agency investigation going also - whether from Britian or the UAE.


User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13463 times:



Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 11):
Are they getting stronger or what? In what way are they "becoming ever more dangerous" compared to say, last September? This statement makes no sense.

I meant more dangerous because they're occuring a lot more because of changing weather patterns due to global warning NOT because they are getting stronger. That would be a completely dumb thing for me to say. Microbursts are happening more an more in places that they never used to. http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/gu...s/mtr/svr/comp/out/micro/home.rxml

Quoting 7673mech (Reply 14):
Giants fan here but I think that's inappropriate considering people are paralyzed from it.

I meant it towards the team, not those who were injured.



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 720 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12810 times:
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Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 15):
I meant it towards the team, not those who were injured.

I have to admit I did initially chuckle.  Smile

Been searching various official websites and Google for the matter and other then this thread, can not find anything concrete.


User currently offlineCsavel From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1362 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12724 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 15):
I meant more dangerous because they're occuring a lot more because of changing weather patterns due to global warning NOT because they are getting stronger. That would be a completely dumb thing for me to say. Microbursts are happening more an more in places that they never used to.

What is the factual basis for such an assertion. How do we know that we are just getting better at monitoring, seeing microbursts where they always occured but not detectable until now?
(I am NOT a global warming skeptic, by any means, the evidence is fairly strong, but you can't point to an event and say, look Global Warming! By the same token skeptics can't point to an event - like a cold snap - and say, look Global Warming Bunk!)

It is the aggregate averages over a few decades. Is there data that show that *over two decades* microbusts have increased and have increased in places where they didn't occur previously?



I may be ugly. I may be an American. But don't call me an ugly American.
User currently offlineBorism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12570 times:

I don't think we can reach any reasonable conclusion on whether microbursts are occurring more often, in more new places and are stronger than ever. We just haven't studied them that long in that many places, unlike we have with air temperature.

But it is fairly certain that we fly to more places than ever where microburst occurrences can be expected. It seems Gulf states fit pretty nicely into this risk group.


User currently offlineDw747400 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1259 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12351 times:



Quoting Borism (Reply 10):

Ground effect would have kicked in 180 feet above that for A340.

Ground effect is nill compared to the power of a microburst and all but a non-factor. In addition, ground effect is most pronounced within half a wingspan, so less than 100AGL for an A340. Still, it really doesn't matter in this case.



CFI--Certfied Freakin Idiot
User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9983 times:



Quoting Borism (Reply 18):
But it is fairly certain that we fly to more places than ever where microburst occurrences can be expected. It seems Gulf states fit pretty nicely into this risk group.

Which is reasonable for my assumption, yes I called it an assumption, that Microbursts are becoming more dangerous because of several different factors, including this one.



"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently offlineNitepilot79 From Turkey, joined May 2008, 269 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9769 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 2):
Is this really the season for microbursts in the Middle east? Once you get past February the weather is normally constant (Hot and stable) till February next year

Not this year. I live in SE Turkey, and up until last week it has been stormy. I mean healthy lightning storms with plenty of wind and rain. I am not aware of the actual weather at said location and time. I'm just saying that the weather over here has been consistently way out of the ordinary this spring/summer.



En Buyuk Turkiye, Baska Buyuk Yok!
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21511 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 9642 times:



Quoting Csavel (Reply 17):
What is the factual basis for such an assertion. How do we know that we are just getting better at monitoring, seeing microbursts where they always occured but not detectable until now?

The act of measuring changes the result.

This is quite true in meteorology. By having greater ability to measure storms, we log more of them, and this is not the equivalent of a rise in this type of activity.

A prime example is hurricane strength. It used to be measured from the ground (where winds are ALWAYS weaker). Then it was measured by aircraft, and they "got stronger" and then by satellite, where they are "estimated" and always, always stronger than experienced.

But the act of measuring has changed results. We are now seeing "more" higher category storms despite not experiencing higher winds on the surface than storms of the past.

Smoke and mirrors. But why?

Quoting Csavel (Reply 17):
(I am NOT a global warming skeptic, by any means, the evidence is fairly strong, but you can't point to an event and say, look Global Warming! By the same token skeptics can't point to an event - like a cold snap - and say, look Global Warming Bunk!)

And yet they do. Especially those who support the theory, because they make money from the reality of it being true. Funding, funding, funding, makes the world go round. Nobody funds "all is well" or predictions of normalcy...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6550 times:



Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 22):
Smoke and mirrors. But why?

That's rhetorical, right? RIGHT???  Wink


User currently offlineCX flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6597 posts, RR: 55
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4619 times:

Sounds very much like the HKG incident where apparently after that Virgin treated it as a full crash investigation, since they were so close to it.

User currently offlineBorism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4484 times:



Quoting CX flyboy (Reply 24):
Sounds very much like the HKG incident where apparently after that Virgin treated it as a full crash investigation, since they were so close to it.

Any link to this? Nothing on aviation-safety.net or Google about this...


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