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EU Approves BD Take Over  
User currently offlineOta1 From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 399 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7940 times:
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The European Union just approved the acquisition of bmi by Lufthansa:

guardian.co.uk

Well, 2 more left to go.

Edited to add English language source

[Edited 2009-05-14 09:22:34]

85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAnkaraflyjet From Turkey, joined Mar 2007, 282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7768 times:
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Expected move. The next phase will be interesting of course, LH will now renegotiate te deal to try to buy it for less and the economic climate is good for that.

It is a pity BA let this go to LH and they will regret that once they lose 17 destinations from One World map in the CIS/Middle East (mostly former BMED network) overnight.This will happen from the 09/10 winter timetable at the earliest or most likely in March 2010.

LH takeover of BD will trigger BA to revisit its presence in the CIS/Middle East markets with a new approach. BA will have to come up with narrow body medium haul product for these markets which they successfully avoided and let BMED to struggle for years and then BD.

On the LH front, I expect them to develop BD as a feeder to LH mainline rather than imposing competition to LH in LH domiant markets. A significant overhaul of the entire BD operation is expected. After the BMED akeover, this is the second wave BD will be forced to change into another style and culture in quite a short period of time. Interesting really to see how a UK airline will adopt German rule.

Good luck BD, I hope you will be as lucky as LX.


User currently offlineAdicool From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7726 times:

Will we see LH trying to acquire the remaining 20% in BD that Sk holds? Would make sense to me to gain 100% control over the airline rather than just 80%...but then again, LH might buy SK, so what the heck hahahahaha...
I am very interested to see what LH will be doing with BD. Anything is possible I say. SN and OS will be turned into niche carriers (but in a good way) serving markets where they are already strong and have a good reputation (Africa and East Europe/Middle East). BD doesn't have this and it will be interesting to see who they will develop.


User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7666 times:



Quoting Ankaraflyjet (Reply 1):
It is a pity BA let this go to LH and they will regret that once they lose 17 destinations from One World map in the CIS/Middle East (mostly former BMED network) overnight

Easy said, except that BA couldn't do a solitary thing about it. Also, not a great idea at all had BA hypothetically been able to purchase BD

Quoting Ankaraflyjet (Reply 1):
On the LH front, I expect them to develop BD as a feeder to LH mainline rather than imposing competition to LH in LH domiant markets.

A perfectly valid reasoning by LH. What would be the sense in two LH airlines competing against each other?


User currently offlineRdwootty From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 905 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7649 times:

So what will happen to Baby?
The aircraft are old and grotty so maybe this will be the end to that part of BMI?


User currently offlineGlom From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 2821 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7571 times:

Should I spend my Diamond Club miles soon?

User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7537 times:



Quoting Ankaraflyjet (Reply 1):

It is a pity BA let this go to LH and they will regret that once they lose 17 destinations from One World map in the CIS/Middle East (mostly former BMED network) overnight.

eh.... BD is not a oneworld member, nor, as to my knowledge, has it ever been...?

Quoting AirNZ (Reply 3):
What would be the sense in two LH airlines competing against each other?

Well, to a degree LH and LX are competing against each other, and so do KL and AF. It seems to work well for both groups...



300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3447 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7539 times:



Quoting AirNZ (Reply 3):
A perfectly valid reasoning by LH. What would be the sense in two LH airlines competing against each other?

Then again, don't LH and LX compete against each other to a certain extent? Hopefully, the new owners will be able to find a clearly-defined path for BD to follow as opposed to their current myriad of approaches.


User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7447 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7425 times:
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Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 6):
eh.... BD is not a oneworld member, nor, as to my knowledge, has it ever been...?

BA codeshare the former BMed routes which that airline operated under a BA franchise and following BD buying BMed there was a slot deal that saw BD relinquish slots to BA in return for BA codesharing their "old" services. BA also briefly codeshared BD's LHR-LBA service.

Quoting Rdwootty (Reply 4):
The aircraft are old and grotty so maybe this will be the end to that part of BMI?

Perhaps WW will merge into 4U?


User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7414 times:



Quoting David_itl (Reply 8):
BA codeshare the former BMed routes which that airline operated under a BA franchise and following BD buying BMed there was a slot deal that saw BD relinquish slots to BA in return for BA codesharing their "old" services. BA also briefly codeshared BD's LHR-LBA service.

ah, ok, I didn't know that.... thanks for the explanation!



300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7393 times:

There is a lot of work to be done to get BD looking like a serious contender in the airline world. It has looked like a joke airline for several years now.

I for one have avoided buying tickets with BMI for the past 2 years. I always expected it to go bust.

Let's hope BD inherit some of that German efficiency and look more stable for the future.


User currently offlineTheginge From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 1136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7339 times:



Quoting Ankaraflyjet (Reply 1):
BA will have to come up with narrow body medium haul product for these markets which they successfully avoided and let BMED to struggle for years and then BD.

I think the line 'BMED struggle for years' might partly sum up why BA is likely not to go near some of those routes for a while. BA has a too high cost base at the moment to make them work economically.


User currently offlineAerdingus From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 2861 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7288 times:



Quoting Ankaraflyjet (Reply 1):
I expect them to develop BD as a feeder to LH mainline rather than imposing competition to LH in LH domiant markets. A significant overhaul of the entire BD operation is expected. After the BMED akeover, this is the second wave BD will be forced to change into another style and culture in quite a short period of time. Interesting really to see how a UK airline will adopt German rule.

Will they not get to keep their identity? Air Dolomiti & LX still kind of have theirs, shame if they just morph as another conglomerate.



Cabin crew blog http://dolefuldolegirl.blogspot.ie/
User currently offlineThirteenRight From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7220 times:



Quoting Aerdingus (Reply 12):
Will they not get to keep their identity? Air Dolomiti & LX still kind of have theirs, shame if they just morph as another conglomerate.

Maybe we'll see Lufthansa UK?


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3447 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7042 times:



Quoting ThirteenRight (Reply 13):
Maybe we'll see Lufthansa UK?

I doubt it. Would they want to throw away BD's brand recognition?


User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 7028 times:



Quoting OB1504 (Reply 14):

I doubt it. Would they want to throw away BD's brand recognition?

I don't know.... but right now they have a hell lot of brands within LH group:

- Lufthansa
- Lufthansa Italia
- Lufthansa Regional, part of which are their subsidiaries LH CityLine and Eurowings
- Swiss
- Swiss European
- Air Dolomiti
- Germanwings

plus they are in the process of acquiring

- SN Brussels
- bmi
- Austrian Group consisting of Austrian, Austrian Arrows and Lauda Air

Isn't that getting a little too much?



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User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3284 posts, RR: 10
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6890 times:



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 15):

Isn't that getting a little too much?

I guess it depends on what they'd achieve with a single brand (or a smaller set of brands). Ultimately FMCG companies have tons of brands - each with a slight different positioning. And at the same time FMCGs routinely withdraw brands at will...



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User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8631 posts, RR: 13
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6868 times:
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Quoting Ankaraflyjet (Reply 1):
It is a pity BA let this go to LH and they will regret that once they lose 17 destinations from One World map in the CIS/Middle East (mostly former BMED network) overnight.This will happen from the 09/10 winter timetable at the earliest or most likely in March 2010.

they are already long gone from the OW map they ceased to be 'oneworld destinations' as soon as BD took over BMED - perhaps you meant that BA will lose 17 destinations from the BA map ?



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineMozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2239 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6801 times:



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 15):
Lufthansa
- Lufthansa Italia
- Lufthansa Regional, part of which are their subsidiaries LH CityLine and Eurowings
- Swiss

Including Edelweiss

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 15):
- Swiss European

Actually, Swiss European is not an "outside brand". It is an operating entity that was created some years ago where all the regiojets are concentrated.

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 15):

- SN Brussels

Brussels Airlines

Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 15):

- bmi

... which includes Baby and bmi regional (not a brand marketed individually)


User currently offlineBMED From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2004, 860 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 6727 times:

Hopefully it will be a good thing as bmi does have a good product, mainly with regional. After they took over the BMED routes it should have become a good airline with a strong route network so investment by LH will hopefully see an improvement.


Living the jetset life! No better way to be
User currently offlineTFFIP From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 6666 times:

Anyone got any ideas about what it is that LH have not yet completed in order to finalise the deal?

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090515-703995.html


User currently offlineBralo20 From Belgium, joined May 2008, 628 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6547 times:



Quoting Mozart (Reply 18):
Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 15):

- SN Brussels

Brussels Airlines

Maybe it should be Sabena again? Big grin


User currently offlineRaffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1718 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 6462 times:

It would be a massive shame if we lost BMI as an airline in the UK.
I fly regularly LON-BEY with BMI and I would not like to have to be directed through FRA, because I can't stand that airport!

Contrary to what some people say about LH, their service isn't all that really!

I have also used BMI baby alot out of EMA and they are an excellent airline, compared to the likes of Easyjet and Ryanair. The crew are friendly and warm, you can preselect your seat . .

I think BMI will remain essentially the same but just with German ownership.



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6406 times:



Quoting Haggis79 (Reply 6):
Well, to a degree LH and LX are competing against each other, and so do KL and AF. It seems to work well for both groups...

Yes indeed, but I was answering in reference to the posters specific comment regarding it. However, I would exactly put it that KL and AF compete directly with each other at all. Different thing altogether.


User currently offlineBrightCedars From Belgium, joined Nov 2004, 1290 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6390 times:



Quoting Raffik (Reply 22):
I fly regularly LON-BEY with BMI and I would not like to have to be directed through FRA, because I can't stand that airport!

I second that part of your statement. I've had the chance to fly BRU-LHR-BEY on BD and BRU-FRA-BEY on LH and BD by far has the better service offering. LH doesn't have bad service but they generally have a consistent entry level more or less minimal offering, definitely nothing to get excited about. The BD route has however proved more tiring with kids due to the longer flight time induced by the back tracking route and I would avoid it mainly for that. FRA definitely isn't the better place to transfer at but I'll pick it any day over CDG and unfortunately AMS isn't an option on the way to BEY these days.

Back on topic, I truly hope that LH will maximize the (huge) revenue potential of BD at LHR. One wonders how VS will come to play in this evolving market landscape.



I want the European Union flag on airliners.net!
25 Pilot21 : Interesting development - Media now reporting that LH will back out of the deal. May 15 (Bloomberg) -- Deutsche Lufthansa AG , Europe’s second-bigge
26 Haggis79 : I'm not so sure if they have a choice.... as mentioned above, if Sir Micheal Bishop wants to sell, they have to buy....
27 TFFIP : Perhaps this brings Etihad back to the table? Where would Virgin find an agreeable sum to take BD off Lufthansa's hands? Is this any reflection on the
28 Veeseeten : I imagine its more of a reflection of the fact that Lufthansa evidently can't or don't want to spare the time and money developing said slots, regardl
29 TFFIP : can you give us the link the story I only see one on Bloomberg about LH still having things to do... thanks
30 Post contains links CityofAthens : The article below may be of interest; it claims LH have demanded that SMB (Sir Michael Bishop) inject cash in order to recapitalise BMI which may be i
31 Pilot21 : I took the details direct from my Bloomberg News terminal in work - which I can't access anymore I'm afraid. Will have to wait til Monday. ( I don't
32 Raffik : I went through BHX-CDG-BEY-CDG-BEY and it was a nightmare. AF assured me that 01:30h would be enough time to make my connecting flight to Beirut, but
33 JER757 : What brand recognition? BD lost the majority of brand recognition when they switched from British Midland, which at the time was a highly respected a
34 Rdwootty : Having been knocked off for starting a link with the news that Lufthansa has decded NOT ot proceed, I cannot get a link, but it is a German Newspaper
35 Post contains links BlueShamu330s : My pleasure........ http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/217/468780/text/ http://www.air-cosmos.com/site/afp.php?Id=090515185238.ssciuzni.xml Rgds
36 TFFIP : LH see the price as too high - reading from various sources in German press, this is thought to be the case also because that outlay is just the begin
37 Sevenforty : I don't think that's ever going to happen if you compare stats. Quote from press release : - "" BMI's main attraction as an airline has always been i
38 LHR380 : But I thought that rule was being relaxed at the moment?
39 WAC : a afraid u r wrong the British CAA authority allocate LHR slots and LHR is one of the only airports in Europe to use this 8 month rule....LHR has thi
40 Summa767 : Please care to sell out the role of the EU in this matter? As far as I can see theEU has approved a takeover of BD by LH. The LHR slots are handled b
41 Sevenforty : That wasn't the point I was making. MY opinion is that LH should never have been able to purchase BD in the first place. That was my reference to the
42 BMIFlyer : Good news. Hopefully the LH Group will finally be able to sort out the mess that BD has placed itself in, and make the airline one that many would be
43 Summa767 : They would just bring their Gatwick operations to Heathrow, and maybe take of the Middle East routes. Not much more. In fact, without BD there would
44 AirNZ : Why not? They can obtain slots any time they wish Then any said airline is free to relinquish any slots, and they certainly aren't being forced to ke
45 Edina : Where from?????? The lack of slots at LHR is precisely why the vultures have been circling around BD for the last few years.....
46 JER757 : Most peoples mentality: Bigger = better. People like bigger engines in their cars. Bigger planes (the public, not the people on this site). Bigger bu
47 David_itl : Any airline that believes the value of their slots outweighs the economics of the route that the slots are being used for.
48 Sevenforty : Hey I'm just quoting the Independent and anyway I meant before BD sold itself up the river to a foreign carrier. Oh well, looks like LH are stuck wit
49 Post contains links David_itl : Looks like that rule has been suspended
50 Sevenforty : What does that imply then ? LH will keep BD running at a loss or the slots just wont be used ? Neither seems viable particularly the latter.
51 Sevenforty : BERLIN (AFP) — Leading German carrier Lufthansa is no longer interested in acquiring full control of British airline bmi because the price is too hi
52 Edina : I believe the poster I quoted was implying that BA & VS have access to any slots they require...
53 ZRH : Ok, that's your opinion. I am not an EU fan myself (fortunately we are not member), but this takeover by LH has absolutely nothing to do with the EU
54 Sevenforty : Hey ?.......... At the moment, all European airlines must be at least 51% EU owned. If the UK was not part of the EU.....? That was my point. I'm not
55 AirNZ : Actually it's quite simple. They are free to purchase/trade any slots they wish, and are not restricted from doing so except by how much they wish to
56 Sevenforty : I'm sure BA were interested at the time. However, there was no way BD would sell to BA becuase of their grievance about the situation at LHR circa 19
57 Shankly : Totally agree. LH is one of the great elephants in the room. Flew them once six years ago on my first trip to Africa LHR-FRA-CPT return in Business.
58 Veeseeten : You've really strayed from the point here and confused your examples. It absolutely stands to reason that people will perceive someone advertising th
59 MadameConcorde : I am quite happy that LH won the BD bid. They will do a good job the same they do with Swiss and Austrian. BD will be in good hands and still a part o
60 AirNZ : I will disagree with you entirely, and I have strayed from no point at all, nor have I confused anything. It absolutely means no such thing and I fai
61 Veeseeten : It really does seem that you're reading into the issue with very specific intent. Of course it implies a sense of lacking. Unless they've otherwise sp
62 Sevenforty : "Heathrow's second largest airline" I think they may have just been trying to draw attention to the fact. People might be forgiven for thinking that V
63 LHR380 : I loved that advert, nice advertising for the largest airline at LHR, BA I really did have to do a double take at that one.
64 LondonJamie : I get the impression that most people on here believe bmi to be flying their routes with half empty planes....nothing could be further from the truth.
65 Glom : Breaking news! Breaking news! BMI's IT technology supplied by Amstrad! I go to a check-in machine today. It assigns me seat 1A. I confirm this. I want
66 Seemyseems : Yes Please! What exactly does LH plan to do with BD?
67 Sevenforty : No thanks !
68 Summa767 : Then the UK would be able to have its own ownership rules. It could choose not to let LH buy a majority stake in bmi -and perhaps nobody would buy it
69 Sevenforty : Sounds OK to me. Never been a fan of LCCs. Not sure if Openskies is going to be a worthwhile venture and airlines that don't cut it should go to the
70 BestWestern : The bmi load factor for the first three months of 2009 was 64.2%, with passengers down over 20%. Somehow I doubt this.
71 TFFIP : What is the source for that information and statistic? Yes Please.
72 Sevenforty : Why not just Lufthansa ?
73 AirbusA6 : Presumably the first thing LH will try to do is stem the losses BD is making, as they aren't going to put up with them for ever. Taking over the natio
74 Sevenforty : I agree with that. So no thanks to Lufthansa UK. Quite happy with Britsh Airways (UK) They'll sell it.(BD) They have no intention of turning it aroun
75 TFFIP : Because the Lufthansa "world" is just too different to the BD "world" and it would need differentiation. Pretty much like Lufthansa Italia, for one t
76 JoFMO : I am not sure if the UK membership benefits the EU at all....
77 Adicool : this will totally turn into one of those heated off-topic discussions, I know, but: Oh so true!!!!!!!!!!
78 Sevenforty : There's no need to be like that. I'm just not a fan of the EU and I've had a few duff flights on LH. Terrible seat, no IFE but I was probably just un
79 Sevenforty : Oh charming, like that is it ! Where would Europe be without us Brits ? Your bars and breweries would of all gone out of business for a start. Come o
80 Veeseeten : Just to turn this around for a sec, I'm not really out to defend LH, but BA was doing the same thing on a smaller scale in the past through investment
81 Seemyseems : Okay, I see LH-UK will not work! But LH never really do rebrands when they take over, they kept LX and OS for example. Isn't the UK one of the largest
82 Humberside : If the UK left the EU chances are it would remain in the European Economic Area, and thus in aviation terms the impact would be far less. The UK woul
83 Summa767 : So not even quitting the EU would have guaranteed Sevenforty LH taking over bmi if they so wish. Which takes the argument full circle.
84 Sevenforty : Hardly.
85 Glom : Isn't all the aviation cooperation governed by the Common Skies thing rather than the European Union? Switzerland and Norway are a part of it as well
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