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Not So Great Airline Ideas That Did Not Work/Last  
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17167 times:

EDIT: I originally wanted to have the title read "Bone Head Airline Ideas..." but chose to revise so now you see where i'm going.

Hello all. Reading through various aviation articles dating to 2006 and back and also reading up on US airline history and their struggle along the way, it surprised me the amount of "clever" ideas that have come our way. Hindsight is always 20/20 and most things do actually look good on paper until, well, 6 months to a year down the road you realize "We really, really shouldn't have went in that direction" if you know what I mean.

I understand this industry is not exactly fluid. What's good this quarter may not be such a good idea 3 quarters later. Nature of the beast but here are a few. Continental Lite, Delta Express, Song (well Song was awesome but Delta realized they can do the same thing under their own operation), More Room in Coach (great for us, not so great for AA and didn't really boost ridership), US charging for water.

This is just a few that I can think of and somewhat major. There are many others to include even things done on crewmember/ staff level that made zero sense, FF programs, etc. I also know the likes of Braniff and Pan Am had their "innovative" ideas.

I'm interested to see what's come and gone in this ever changing industry...


What gets measured gets done.
164 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15833 posts, RR: 27
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17172 times:

SKYBUS!!!
Man that was stupid.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17147 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17100 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
SKYBUS!!!

Also my first thought. Wonder if we will see another "Skybus" carrier.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17078 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 2):

No doubt. That's what makes some of these ideas so "bone head" someone had tried it already and it didn't work or failed MISERABELY.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineBrianDromey From Ireland, joined Dec 2006, 3929 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17075 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 1):
SKYBUS!!!
Man that was stupid.

I dont think there was anything fundamentally wrong with the concept, just the markets they chose.
Now, Independence Air, that was stupid. Low Fares from a high cost airport on 50 seat CRJ's? added to massive repainting and refurbishing costs. They were dead from day one. When the larger aircraft did arrive they did not have enough cash to pay for them and trying to do so sent them over the edge....such a shame.

Brian.



Next flights: MAN-ORK-LHR(EI)-MAN(BD); MAN-LHR(BD)-ORK (EI); DUB-ZRH-LAX (LX) LAX-YYZ (AC) YYZ-YHZ-LHR(AC)-DUB(BD)
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15833 posts, RR: 27
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17065 times:



Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
Continental Lite, Delta Express, Song (well Song was awesome but Delta realized they can do the same thing under their own operation),

And TED, and BA's go. These things never work because they either just fail, or they succeed and siphon traffic from the mainline and get shut down that way.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Thread starter):
More Room in Coach (great for us, not so great for AA and didn't really boost ridership),

I think that this was a legit experiment. They tried it, and found that pax weren't willing to pay extra for the legroom. It didn't work, but I wouldn't classify it as a bone-headed idea.

Quoting B747forever (Reply 2):
Wonder if we will see another "Skybus" carrier.

Probably. There is a sucker born every minute after all.

And I thought of another bad idea. America West's 747 service to Hawaii and Aloha Pacific for that matter. Didn't go so hot.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineCFV2 From Canada, joined Feb 2009, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17069 times:

Up here, Air Canada has provided a few examples of how not to get ahead in the past decade.

AC's gobbling up of CP, in hindsight, wasn't such a hot business decision.... especially given CP's balance sheet and heavy debt. It wasn't sound, and seemed driven more out of spite than sense; or, greed. It would have been better for Air Canada's bottom line to simply let Canadian Airlines dwindle and downsize, or maybe fail, which seemed pretty much inevitable anyway.

Alas, after they bought CP, Air Canada realized that by taking over most of the market they had inadvertently opened the door to low-cost start-ups, who were grabbing market share at their expense - particularly, WestJet.

Solution? Zip Air, which was a low-cost, airline-within-an-airline, designed to take on WS in the west. It seems to have been a template for Song and Ted's roll-out in the US, in following years;

http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2002/09/23/zip020923.html

Zip lasted about two years, and did nothing to stem AC's hemorrhaging of market share to WS.



I just do what I'm told.
User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15833 posts, RR: 27
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17035 times:



Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 4):
I dont think there was anything fundamentally wrong with the concept, just the markets they chose.

That is part of what made it so dumb. You had all of those flights going to CMH, but they wouldn't allow anyone to connect. Plus, while there is a certain segment that will fly on the cheapest fare possible, I'm not convinced that the way to have a successful pizza place is to take the cheese off of the pizza.

Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 4):
Now, Independence Air, that was stupid. Low Fares from a high cost airport on 50 seat CRJ's?

And ExpressJet. I knew that one was going downhill from day 1. Having a low cost airline on some of the most expensive planes is not a good idea.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineSpartanmjf From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 514 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 17003 times:

Metrojet at BWI

The great US reservation system transition



"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 16911 times:

What ever happened to SimpliFares? (not saying it was dumb; just curious) I've heard that while it did raise revenue a bit, especially out of CVG and ATL, it was a little too late as the damage was done by Leo and gang. $5.2B loss in one quarter; OUCH.


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1190 posts, RR: 10
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 16871 times:

Can someone sing a ........S O N G ?

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 16866 times:

Skybus and ExpressJet's branded flying. Hard to conclude which idea was stupider.


a.
User currently offlineTranspac787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 3217 posts, RR: 16
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 16875 times:

With regard to fleets -

AA using the A300 on transatlantic

AA acquiring the MD11 altogether. A plane that severely under-performed to their expectations. Hoping it would fly JFK-NRT, AA ended up having to run a short-lived SEA-NRT, as that was seemingly one of the only transpac routes the MD11 could make unrestricted.

DL's attempt to re-hub LAX using a handful of ERJ-145's


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33289 posts, RR: 71
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 16805 times:



Quoting Transpac787 (Reply 12):
Hoping it would fly JFK-NRT,

Delta used the MD11 on JFK-NRT in the summer of 2001. I don't think they had restrictions on it.



a.
User currently offlineCws818 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1176 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 16782 times:

USAir's Business Select in the early/mid-90s


volgende halte...Station Hollands Spoor
User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1607 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 16709 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
Plus, while there is a certain segment that will fly on the cheapest fare possible, I'm not convinced that the way to have a successful pizza place is to take the cheese off of the pizza.

Channeling Gordon Bethune? He did, after all, say that "You can make a pizza so cheap that no one will eat it."

It's already been said, but CAL Lite was one of the dumber ideas...



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1995 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 16604 times:



Quoting BrianDromey (Reply 4):
I dont think there was anything fundamentally wrong with the concept, just the markets they chose.

 checkmark  I agree that the concept was fine. In some markets they were doing great, like PSM. The problem is they went to CMH and GSO and didn't allow you to connect to any other destinations. Not to mention that the man who wrote the business plan had no say in any of the airline's operations.

I think Maxjet was a bad idea. But my main beef with them is when they started service at IAD, they said BOS was going to be added next. However when they said they were going to add it, they didn't. Then Today in the Sky had an article where they said they were "seriously considering" LAS and BOS. LAS was added soon after, but still no BOS. Then they dropped IAD and went out of business altogether. Cheap business class wasn't a bad idea, but serving markets from STD as opposed to LHR or LGW wasn't too bright. Still, the way they handled BOS made me wonder what was going on internally.



2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26005 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16536 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 5):
And I thought of another bad idea. America West's 747 service to Hawaii

And, even dumber, the continuation of those HP 747 flights from HNL to Nagoya, Japan.

A couple of other bad ideas going back a little further:

Braniff's unwise transpacific (SEL/GUM/HKG/SIN) and transatlantic (AMS/BRU/FRA/ORY from DFW and BOS) in the late 1970s, when they started flying almost anywhere they could obtain landing rights whether there was any demand or not, and acquired about 10 747s (including a few 747SPs for the Pacific) which mostly flew half empty or worse.

TWA's transpacific service which lasted about 6 years, from 1969 to 1975, also wasn't the brightest idea. Like Braniff a decade later, TWA lacked traffic rights to Tokyo which made it almost impossible to operate profitably. And TW's 707s on the much longer multi-stop route between LAX and BOM via HNL and at least 2 or 3 other stops among Guam, Okinawa, Tapei, Hong Kong and Bangkok, were uncompetitive with other carriers like PA/NW/JL which were operating 747s by the early '70s on the shorter North Pacific routing via Tokyo.. It did make TW a round-the-world carrier for those 6 years, connecting at BOM with their traditional transatlantic routes, but the losses didn't help TW's financial position. They made a deal with Pan Am to drop those routes in exchange for some additional routes to Europe.


User currently offlineSkibum9 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1229 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16507 times:

RJs RJs RJs RJs RJs RJs RJs RJs RJs RJs RJs RJs RJs RJs RJs RJs RJs RJs

AND MORE

RJs

Need I mention Independence Air! And look how fast the 35, 40 and 50 seaters are fading away. Hopefully soon the 70 seaters will go as well.

Whoever the genius was that thought you could make money with these things obviously did not complete their GED. Whoever designed these things must have been recruited from Playskool Toys and continued to believe they were designing for children. And, whoever thought the definition of "regional" was up to a 3 1/2 hour flight must still be working on their 1st Boy Scout merit badge after 30 years of active membership.



Tailwinds!!!
User currently offlineAirbear From Australia, joined May 2001, 648 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16494 times:

Hi all,

Several short-lived "innovations" come to mind over the years, like... a) CO's Piano Lounges on their early 747's; b) SQ tried installing slot (poker machines for us Aussies) machines on their 747's as an extra revenue raiser ; and more recently, c) inflight internet services such as Connexion: tried for a short tiime by SK and LH that I know of, as well as CX's Netvigator service.

With a bit of luck, the latest trials of inflight mobile phone/sms connectivity will also fail likewise! Who needs it?!!?

Cheers, Airbear


User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15833 posts, RR: 27
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16463 times:



Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 15):
Channeling Gordon Bethune? He did, after all, say that "You can make a pizza so cheap that no one will eat it."

It's already been said, but CAL Lite was one of the dumber ideas...

Pretty much. He's one of the smarter airline guys around. Airlines could help themselves a lot by heeding his quotes over the years.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3447 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16462 times:



Quoting BMI727 (Reply 7):
And ExpressJet. I knew that one was going downhill from day 1. Having a low cost airline on some of the most expensive planes is not a good idea.

Granted, the business plan was a little more sound than that of Indy Air, since they flew point-to-point "under the radar" of the more established carriers. And they only did that because CO left them with several dozen unemployed ERJs, whereas DH completely cut off all ties with their mainline partners that could guarantee them revenue.


User currently offlineFghtngsiouxatc From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16445 times:

US charging for softdrinks! Can't believe no one brought that up. When you're the only airline charging, no one's going to buy! How long did that even last? 2 years?

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15833 posts, RR: 27
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16435 times:



Quoting OB1504 (Reply 21):
Granted, the business plan was a little more sound than that of Indy Air,

Indy Air was a bad and half-baked idea. ExpressJet was just a bad idea. 50 seaters are too expensive for that kind of thing, and some people will go out of their way to avoid them.



Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlineRidgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1242 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 16440 times:

In the70's PSA getting L1011's for Intra California Services

25 WhatUsaid : Express Jet wasn't a bad idea. The idea was right. Wrong economic environment.
26 Afterburner : LH's idea of NOT putting PTVs on Y-class.
27 OB1504 : I suppose they thought the other legacies would follow suit. Bad call on their part.
28 Ridgid727 : Onboard ticketing at HP (in their very early years) & also at People Express
29 Viscount724 : And ordering them with a lower-deck lounge in what would normally have been the forward baggage/cargo compartment. That lounge made those PSA L1011s
30 Bohica : Glenn Tilton. Need I say anything more?
31 MSPNWA : I'll thrown in Oasis Hong Kong. Low cost/long haul obviously didn't work. You look at the business model in hindsight, and it looks like something an
32 Chapavaeaa : AA buying Air Cal...and eliminating most of their operation. AA building up a BNA and RDU hub....and then dismantling them. AA buying Reno Air and the
33 Skygirl : For the win! I'm convinced that one day you are going to see airlines only have mainline flights hub to hub, and rj's going everywhere else. Can we f
34 B747forever : Well Air Asia X is trying it!
35 MSPNWA : Yep, we'll see if they make it. I like their model better though. No quite as "long haul", and the routes are not so wildly competitive. But, in shor
36 Jetdudetim : Actually, PSA's L1011's were purchased to fly to Hawaii, which they were never awarded.
37 Vhqpa : What about Smintair German airline for Smokers. QF getting there first 4 A330-200's with lighter floors for SYD-MEL/BNE ops only to be forced to put t
38 OB1504 : Then again, didn't VS have success with this business plan? Of course, that was over twenty years ago.
39 SkyguyB727 : Another idea that has failed multiple times is the concept of offering first class service at coach fares or less. Air One out of STL and other airlin
40 Max550 : What about the all business carriers? The ideas ranged from semi crazy (EOS, newish 757's) to really crazy (MAXjet, SILVERJET with old 767's). I think
41 BMI727 : Don't forget Legend flying those 56 seat DC-9s out of DAL. Old, relatively inefficient planes + fewer seats + competing with Southwest = footnote in
42 M404 : Hughes AirWest inflight soup service. After lots of raves from the passengers it was considered too dangerous in case of turbulance. Hughes Airwest or
43 Flybyguy : Installation of PTV systems on planes can come up to a few thousand a seat. I'm not sure if typical Y-class fares during the lifetime of the system m
44 MEA-707 : VS never was or wanted to be a low cost carrier. In fact they are usually more expensive. They now put them in all their long haul fleet. In the earl
45 BrianDromey : BA's Go was a success. they invested £25 million, sold it to 3i for £100. 3i sold it to easyJet for £300 million. I would call that a success. Wha
46 Post contains links Mariner : They also had to cover the losses. Go started in 1998 and lost about £55 million in three years: http://money.cnn.com/2001/03/05/europe/klm/index.ht
47 KstateinALB : It actually started in August 2008, so not even close to a year that it lasted.
48 Xdlx : Regional Jets...... There was a great phrase used by a then DAL President! - " we will compete with the LCC by using our RJ armada" Right then, we kn
49 Bramble : Aer Lingus received their first A330s in 1994/5. One of them was in all economy with no entertainment system. EI didn't want it to sour the perception
50 Post contains links and images Keesje : London - NYC is a top business market. Lets start a Business only, point to point service for those demanding guys avoiding those crowdy hubs and offe
51 CrimsonNL : What ever happened to that (IIRC european airline) that introduced a special class were no children were allowed? I remember reading that in the news
52 Deltamd90 : That's what most people don't really get. A large part of SONG was an experiment, and although the paintjob, name, and a few other aspects of it did
53 Vhqpa : Really? That would have been so cool. Vhq
54 Mariner : Count me as one of the ones who didn't get it. Song was a deliberate attempt to stop the erosion of market share to the LCC's and specifically to Jet
55 Dtwclipper : That was AA, not CO. It was done during a downturn in the economy and did actually increase traffic.
56 Elcableguy77 : It lasted all of 6 months, and was one of the worst ideas US had. It turned the F/As into walking vending machines. There was a communal cheer among
57 LMML 14/32 : Maybe a bit off topic. the low cost South African airline KULULA ......... which in my language means a blow job . But of course I live thousands of m
58 Gsoflyer : I get tired of comments abotu GSO and Skybus from people who speak like they never read an article or looked up stats on the company or operations. T
59 Jneel43 : The AA 747's with piano lounges also had professional piano players on some flights. I worked as a Flight Service Director on board and the passengers
60 MaverickM11 : Virgin America
61 Tjwgrr : Air Azul / JetAmerica Failure in the making. Let's fly business routes only twice or three times a week with a rented 737-800......
62 Max999 : UA floated the idea of charging for meals on trans-Atlantic flights. Bad idea...the feedback from all sides was completely negative.
63 MaverickM11 : Actually it's pretty much been a slam dunk for every carrier that's charging for bags both in terms of ancillary revenue as well as reduced baggage p
64 Braniff747SP : There is one starting. It is called Jet America. (Air Azul)
65 SW733 : my problem was, I enjoyed their routes (namely MCI-ONT), but was not willing to fly that whole way on an RJ. MCI-MSY was fine, but MCI-ONT was a bit
66 MasseyBrown : Onboard ticketing worked perfectly, however, on the Eastern Shuttle and was almost essential for Eastern's no reservations, guaranteed seat operation
67 Falstaff : I am sure we will. A couple of years ago I bought Deregulation Knockouts 1 & 2 from Airways Magazine. Both of them were great books and while reading
68 Richierich : I hate to get into another pissing match about this subject, but I'm from the camp that says Song was a bust. Nobody will disagree that Song's produc
69 Mayor : I remember in the weeks before the Delta/Western merger was announced, it was announced that Delta and Jet America (a previous incarnation) were in m
70 WA707atMSP : PSA purchased L-1011s after the 1969 transpacific route case had been decided. They were not purchased to fly to Hawaii, they were purchased so PSA c
71 Falstaff : I hate those. I like to take a leak without having to pay. I would go broke if we had all those pay toilets in pulic places in the US. I think the la
72 WA707atMSP : In the 1960s, many airlines decided to expand into the hotel industry, so they could (in theory) sell their passengers a seat on an airplane, and a ho
73 LongHauler : When Air Canada took over Canadi>n, Canadi>n had very little debt ... less than CAD 1M. Air Canada's debt, is Air Canada's debt! AC's decision to tak
74 Mayor : I can remember when ORD had pay toilets up to the late 70's and early 80's, when Mayor Byrne (Calamity Jane) came in and eliminated them. Probably th
75 Max550 : How about the IAD-DFW Concorde flights that Braniff flew. I read that there were rarely more than 15 passengers and the Concorde only flew mach .95.
76 Mayor : I guess that was an interchange with BA. Not much allure to the Concorde when, by law, it was restricted to sub MACH over the continental US.
77 Q120 : The RJ was a great solution to the 50 seat restriction that many airlines faced at the time.
78 Mayor : It was a good idea, at the time. Fuel prices were low and passengers were given the choice of flying on a jet, even to the small towns. It only becam
79 Post contains links and images Dtwclipper : I'm surprised no one has mentioned this one! View Large View MediumPhoto © Jeffrey S. DeVore Just flying in and out of DET was a bad idea to begi
80 Txjim : But they sure were a nice way to get to ORD while they lasted! I know a flight attendant who worked that route; she described the number of gourmet m
81 Viscount724 : Another bad idea was LX changing to Buy-on-Board in Y class on their routes within Europe a few years ago. It was totally contrary to their image as a
82 AWACSooner : Actually, it was less than a year. But we can just put US Airways as a whole since the merger on the list of stupid airline ideas, since they're usua
83 Post contains links CFV2 : Uh, no. Canadian was about $2.8 billion (with a B) dollars in debt by the end of 1996; http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.c...ex.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=
84 DiscoverCSG : Also, not having wheels, engines, nose, etc., can't have helped with the efficiency of operations.
85 Dc10s2hnl : That is insane, can a 146 even do a transcon? Why would ZW even attempt such a thing?
86 IrishAyes : Um...surprised nobody has thought that AA's TWA acquisition was not the dumbest idea ever...acquire a glut of old aircraft (that has come to bite them
87 MBMBOS : TWA's paper flight attendant uniforms. I've read they tore easily and moisture made them instantly see-through. I believe during the early eighties Ea
88 LongHauler : That is correct. The merger was in 1999, three years later, after all debt holders took a haircut. And you are right, my M was incorrect and should h
89 Yellowtail : Anyone remember KIWI?
90 SirSheldon : Roots Air in Canada. It was supposed to bring "fashion to the skies" - but people really didn't care if their FA's were dressed in designer duds I gue
91 SirSheldon : JetsGo's $1 fares. No wonder they didn't have any money for maintenance!
92 Gr8SlvrFlt : Continental tried six-abreast seating on a DC-9s in the sixties. I believe it only last one flight! USAir spent a lot of money on seats that could be
93 Sunking737 : Northwest Orient Airlines buying Republic Airlines. It was a very sad day.
94 Srbmod : The Moonlight Specials. Eastern had been awarded a cargo contract with several cargo companies, that would involve using Eastern's A300s on overnight
95 Post contains links CFV2 : .... Or approach plates for YYC.... http://aviation-safety.net/news/newsitem.php?id=1367
96 Otops : After reading through all these post this sounds like the worst so far. Was this for real?
97 BAViscount : Just throwing this out there, but what about BA's walk-on shuttle service to Scotland in the 70s? I remember reading stories of how the F/A's sometime
98 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : And slightly more downmarket, Greyhound Air, the low-cost airline venture started by Greyhound bus lines in Canada in 1996 using 6 727-200s (operated
99 YULWinterSkies : 1. AZ: build a hub at FCO. 2. AZ in general: let's keep it 'alive' at all costs. Someday it will stop working. If there is one thing AZ is an expert o
100 CFV2 : I thought that had more to do with a change of ownership at Greyhound Air than an actual failure of the idea.... I think it was Laidlaw who took over
101 Gr8SlvrFlt : Did anyone ever make money on Airphones?
102 B747forever : So you dont think that STN-KUL is "quite as long haul"?
103 Viscount724 : True, but I'm sure the operation was never profitable. Ironically, prior to the Laidlaw takeover, Greyhound Canada's CEO and several of their marketi
104 CFV2 : LongHauler, my apologies for not getting back to you right away. I was under the impression that the figure was larger than that. Nonetheless; a billi
105 Trintocan : This has been a very interesting thread so far. Some from the Caribbean. In 1994 BA touted its "Project Sunshine", a new airline to link the Eastern C
106 FlyASAGuy2005 : DL had the same issues didn't they? From what i've heard, the T7 was a God send for both AA and DL (and others). And and at recent charging for water
107 BOStonsox : I hadn't looked up any stats in GSO but I did in PSM. If you're right about GSO, then those two were cities where the model was working. But GSO-Flor
108 FlyASAGuy2005 : Does 90% LF mean they were making money? It's my understanding this was the brunt of their OPS anyway...
109 CFV2 : YMX - Montréal-Mirabel. I guess building a huge airport in the middle of nowhere wasn't such a hot idea.
110 474218 : There was a huge restriction in available cargo space. The center cargo compartment was filled with a fuel tank. Do you really think that the PSA boa
111 PSU.DTW.SCE : NW thinking they could retaliate against AA by announcing they would fly DFW-LGA. NW never started the route. AA retaliating against Legend at DAL by
112 Viscount724 : It would have been fine if they'd completed the planned road and rail links, and moved ALL scheduled flights to Mirabel, not just international fligh
113 Falstaff : If you parked your car there you had to really wonder if it would be there when you got back. STL has a great economy compared to DTW. I hope they di
114 Linglesou : How come this wide-bodies on relatively short legs idea failed in California - was it purely because of turnaround times or was the market just well.
115 BMI727 : The AA buyout was a bad idea, but not because of the STL economy.
116 Petertenthije : At least BA's Go Fly managed to run a profit and a decent operation. For a really bad example on how to run a low-cost airline within an airline look
117 Mariner : When did Go run a profit? See post #46 above: mariner
118 Post contains links RussianJet : I think a near 14 hour sector counts as pretty damn long haul. Family Airlines, anyone? http://familyairlines.com/index7.html
119 AlitaliaDC10 : What about SQ's Suite Class? While it looks amazing and fantastic, it seems to be a bit of white elephant for SQ. Is it true that from the 13th A380 S
120 Directorguy : Now that brings EK's showers to mind. I have a feeling that when we do a similar thread in the 2020s someone will bring up those showers and we'll al
121 AlitaliaDC10 : I thought the same thing...until i actually got to use it! I was lucky enough to be on the inaugural DXB-SYD in First and tried the shower about 2 ho
122 Srbmod : It was pretty much a useless idea since AA, along with the City of Ft. Worth, caused Legend to spend quite of bit of their capital fighting lawsuits
123 Post contains links Petertenthije : http://www.easyjet.com/en/Investor/20020524_01.html http://www.onpedia.com/encyclopedia/go-fly
124 Mayor : Back in the early 80's, Eastern had a promotion going with General Motors. I don't know if it was just local or national but the gist was that if you
125 PSU.DTW.SCE : Peotone AA's Bistro Bags 3 hour + CRJ flights DTW - NW Worldgateway, the original Concourse C regional ops
126 Mayor : I'd say 2 hour + is too long.
127 COFanNYC : I'm not the world's biggest supporter of US Airways nor am I their biggest detractor. However, the second bag fee was first introduced by UA and the
128 Dc10s2hnl : Too bad these didn't stick around; there was less work for the f/a's and less catering equipment and weight on the plane... but now we don't have to
129 FlyASAGuy2005 : Delta had a similar program a couple years ago. I don't remember what it was called but there was usually a cart set up right by the boarding door an
130 RB211 : Delta's "Mullen" livery.
131 TDubJFK : Even the name is idiotic.
132 FlyASAGuy2005 : I actually much favored the Wavy Gravy over the current one and the Ron Allen colors. Simple but a professional look.
133 TDubJFK : I worked at US during the 90s and my vote for another "Not-So-Great-Idea" was the weird codeshare thing BA and US did during the 90s. It was a strange
134 MasseyBrown : Or just Delta's Mullen. In the Airline Management Hall of Shame, he's not the worst, but I'd give him at least an associate membership.
135 Srbmod : Delta SkyDeli. Nothing like a soggy turkey and swiss sandwich. The breakfast ones were barely much better, a rock hard bagel. I liked the snack packs
136 Mats : I liked the SkyDeli, because it meant more food on shorter flights (EWR-CVG comes to mind.) My Hall of Shame would be: 1. United's Take-Me-Along promo
137 Astockla : my two cents... in regard to skybus: Given that its a Ryanair model based airline - you're right, most of us in Europe who fly FR are suckers - but we
138 FlyASAGuy2005 : My how things COULD have been. Doh!! From the context and the thread he was responding to, he meant the investors and guys actually putting together
139 Mayor : If I'm not mistaken, DL ended up in a bidding war with Carl Icahn and TWA. Icahn had no real thought of buying PA, but just wanted DL to pay more. Pa
140 FlyASAGuy2005 : From previous readings that what I got too. That they wanted to have the biggest and best and didn't really have the routes to fly them on.
141 Mayor : I believe DL got caught up in that fever that everyone had to buy the 747. At least they were able to use them on the PanAm interchange to Europe.
142 RB211 : Or better yet an honorary doctoral. I wish I could say baggage fees are a bad idea but then we'd all be out of business and weight restricted beyond
143 Revelation : And what about UA's high-end version of an airline-within-an-airline? The spending on that pretty much guaranteed a trip to bankruptcy. You could hav
144 Gsoflyer : Portsmouth worked because they ran routes that they knew would work. I flew the GSO to PSM flight a lot and every time it was packed (though I was on
145 BCAL : IIRC during the early days VS wanted to be a low fare carrier along the same way as Laker's Skytrain and Peoplexpress, and this was how they portraye
146 GRIVely : This is somewhat obscure but my own "Worst Idea" was when BA briefly had some of their aircraft configured so that seats in the middle rows of their 7
147 Saab2000 : The irony is that the people who actually do think this stuff up are in fact fairly highly paid MBAs! Think of an idea that loses millions? Costs cus
148 YLWbased : I do on every single flights i've be on in the past 5 years, as long as the aircraft have them installed. My grilfriend demanded me to call her on ev
149 Saab2000 : I remember that well. It came at the end of my time there and was a total farce. Even on the SB-20 we used to have good food and good service. They t
150 Mayor : Yes, DL did have the same issues as AA with the MD-11. Towards the end, DL was using them transatlantic instead of transpacific. When DL bought them
151 BOStonsox : RJs are pretty expensive. Why didn't they have mainline service? I agree completely. Still, there are markets that aren't large enough where you can
152 Yellowtail : I did once after I got sent on a round the USA trek by UA during one of their summer strikes.... I was flying LAX-IAH...and ended up going LAX-DFW-DE
153 LVHGEL : Well I haven't seen it posted so here it goes: The Pan Am / National Merger.
154 Revelation : Sexy Stewardesses in hot pants and leather boots, ala Braniff in the 70's, unfortunately falls into the "ideas that did not last" category. Paging Su
155 SalMonela : How about DL's DFW hub? How many years did that bleed huge cash just because someone's ego couldn't admit it was a turkey?
156 Enilria : That's my candidate. Also the circumstances are worse than XJET. Independence Air chose to try to run UA out of their own hub with "UA's" own airplan
157 JA : In today's revenue environment, that could work. 1) You don't need to fly to the costliest airports. It is cheaper to tell passengers how to find the
158 SQ_EK_freak : Or how about that partnership with SR-DL-SQ? Didn't they have some sort of agreement whereby they crewed certain flights with FAs from the three airl
159 Maxpower1954 : A bad idea to start with - National was a great airline, but had an unusual Florida/Northeast Florida/West Coast route system. About the only city th
160 Gsoflyer : And if you ask me, they should have run 1 stop flights rather than connections in that case. Keeps cost down, and adds capacity. Portsmouth to Richmo
161 Pe@rson : I always find it funny that "armchair CEOs" criticise what has been done yet don't get into the business themselves and try to do things better. Most
162 ItalianFlyer : Because it is easy to see the folly after the fact. ...its just human nature. Did anyone mention the double narrowbody jetbridge test that UA tried i
163 AA777223 : I'm pretty sure those were intended for DFW-NRT
164 Enilria : I hear you with the fees, but I think you are still misguided on CRJ operating costs. You can't have roundtrip fares under $300 on even the shortest
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