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When Is An A/C No Longer Considered New?  
User currently onlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2296 posts, RR: 19
Posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4113 times:

Hey Guys:

Not sure what forum to put this in, so mods please forgive me!

Within the past year and a half quite a few airlines have introduced a new fleet type or have taken a delivery of a new plane, and Id like to know (well at least in your honest opinion) when an aircraft is no longer considered "brand new". I guess its when the new aircraft smell goes away right?


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4098 times:

When something replaces it as being the newest one.

User currently onlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2296 posts, RR: 19
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4062 times:



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 1):
When something replaces it as being the newest one.

I mean the actual a/c its self..

For example :

soon WN will take delivery of N936WN - how long will it be until the plane its self is no longer considered new.( i.e 6 months maybe) - I am still trying to find a better way to explain this..



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4016 times:



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 2):
soon WN will take delivery of N936WN - how long will it be until the plane its self is no longer considered new.( i.e 6 months maybe) - I am still trying to find a better way to explain this..

It's pretty difficult to explain the "newness" of an aircraft. I guess one could say it's when the 'new airplane smell' wears off. Others can claim the 'new' factor wears off after a certain time period. One should keep in mind that even new airplanes can fall victim to problems that are typical of 'older' models. I just flew on a plane that was delivered less than a month ago, and already noticed that there were marks on tray-tables, as well as IFE issues (that could be a teething problem with the IFE on a new aircraft, however). How often an airline uses their equipment can determine how quickly an aircraft will age.

Though we keep them clean, I'm often surprised at how worn some of our A320s look. It's most likely attributed to the fact that those aircraft are cylced many more times in a day (on average) than any other airline operating in the US. Therefore, they see a lot more passenger traffic in a shorter time frame. In cases like that, you might find a new plane with more wear-and-tear on their carpets/seats after just a few months rather than one that's only been used, say, 3 or 4 times in a day in the same time period.

Also, when tail #703 was introduced to our fleet, tail #665 was the newest, and last aircraft delivered with the older-style cabin interior. Though both aircraft are relatively the same age, would you consider #665 to be 'old'? And being that #703 is about a year old, would that constitute as being no-longer new?

It's a good question that you asked, but nearly impossible to answer. Everyone's going to have a different opinion  wink .



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineThebatman From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 844 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3992 times:
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I would say when the warranty ends, which can be somewhere from 2 to 5 years...


A319,A320,B727,B732/3/5/7/8/9,B742/4,B752/3,B762/3,B772,CRJ2/7,DC9/MD80,DC10,E145/70
User currently offlineRwy04LGA From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3988 times:

The minute they drive it off the lot?


Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17051 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3951 times:

Is there really anything like "new airplane smell"? If there is, I have to yet experience it.


Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3930 times:



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 2):
soon WN will take delivery of N936WN - how long will it be until the plane its self is no longer considered new.( i.e 6 months maybe) - I am still trying to find a better way to explain this..

And my answer still stands. First off, how can you possibly expect a concrete answer here? This has nothing to do with any law, rule, op spec, or any type of standard. It's a personal opinion. Not a fact. There is no real answer to this question. Nonetheless, my answer remains...when they get their next delivery, then N936WN will not be considered "new", in my opinion of course.


User currently onlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2296 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3905 times:



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 7):
First off, how can you possibly expect a concrete answer here? This has nothing to do with any law, rule, op spec, or any type of standard. It's a personal opinion. Not a fact.

Alright Justin then your answer stands, I misread it - I apologize...



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17051 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3903 times:



Quoting Pilotboi (Reply 7):
Nonetheless, my answer remains...when they get their next delivery, then N936WN will not be considered "new", in my opinion of course.

Well FR have in the history got several 738s delivered the same week, if not the same day so they are not considered "new"  Wink



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineGoose From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 1840 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3881 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 6):
Is there really anything like "new airplane smell"? If there is, I have to yet experience it.

Yeah, there is. It's better than new car smell, and Boeings smell different from Airbuses. No kidding...  Wink



"Talk to me, Goose..."
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 17051 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3877 times:



Quoting Goose (Reply 10):
Yeah, there is. It's better than new car smell,

Oh, okay. Well I hope to experience it one day.

Quoting Goose (Reply 10):
and Boeings smell different from Airbuses. No kidding...

Hehe. Of course Boeing's smells better, by far  Wink



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineGoose From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 1840 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3856 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 11):
Oh, okay. Well I hope to experience it one day.

Those working for an airline - especially maintenance at a home base - have a much better chances with new airplane smell, than an average pax; as home base is usually where the acceptance check on new deliveries take place. Just saying.

Line employees - customer service folks, ramp guys - also like seem to like looking around new deliveries when they show up for their first leg.... even if the company has a few dozen others just like it, already.

.... which is kinda weird, come to think of it...  silly 

Quoting B747forever (Reply 11):
Hehe. Of course Boeing's smells better, by far

I'll never tell.  biggrin 



"Talk to me, Goose..."
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4856 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3808 times:

[quote=B747forever,reply=6]Is there really anything like "new airplane smell"? If there is, I have to yet experience it.[/quote

Step onboard QF's B744 VH-OJA and then step onboard QF's A388 VH-OQC... Then you will notice the difference and get that NEW plane smell...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineC5LOAD From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 917 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3524 times:



Quoting Thebatman (Reply 4):
I would say when the warranty ends, which can be somewhere from 2 to 5 years

Are you being fececious, or do airplanes actually come with warranties just like cars?



"But this airplane has 4 engines, it's an entirely different kind of flying! Altogether"
User currently offline474218 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6340 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3492 times:



Quoting C5LOAD (Reply 14):
Are you being fececious, or do airplanes actually come with warranties just like cars?

Yes they do! Here is a good read on aircraft warranties.

http://www.warrantyweek.com/archive/ww20040302.html


User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24814 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3474 times:



Quoting C5LOAD (Reply 14):
do airplanes actually come with warranties just like cars?

Following excerpt from Boeing's 2008 annual report:

Product Warranties

We provide product warranties in conjunction with certain product sales. The majority of our warranties are issued by our Commercial Airplanes segment. Generally, aircraft sales are accompanied by a three to four-year standard warranty for systems, accessories, equipment, parts, and software manufactured by us or manufactured to certain standards under our authorization. These warranties are included in the programs’ estimate at completion. Additionally, on occasion we have made commitments beyond the standard warranty obligation to correct fleet- wide major warranty issues of a particular model. These costs are expensed as incurred. These warranties cover factors such as non-conformance to specifications and defects in material and design. Warranties issued by our IDS segments principally relate to sales of military aircraft and weapons hardware and are included in the contract cost estimates. These sales are generally accompanied by a six to twelve-month warranty period and cover systems, accessories, equipment, parts, and software manufactured by us to certain contractual specifications. These warranties cover factors such as non-conformance to specifications and defects in material and workmanship.

Estimated costs related to standard warranties are recorded in the period in which the related product sales occur. The warranty liability recorded at each balance sheet date reflects the estimated number of months of warranty coverage outstanding for products delivered times the average of historical monthly warranty payments, as well as additional amounts for certain major warranty issues that exceed a normal claims level. Estimated costs of these additional warranty issues are considered changes to the initial liability estimate.


User currently offlineBravo1six From Canada, joined Dec 2007, 397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3463 times:

For financing purposes by the Export Credit Agencies an aircraft is eligible for "new" aircraft financing if it's delivered by the OEM to the borrower andprior to that delivery has not been used in commercial service; otherwise it's a used aircraft.

Many non-ECA lenders will consider an aircraft "used" once it racks up 100 or so flight hours.


User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3230 times:



Quoting B747forever (Reply 6):
Is there really anything like "new airplane smell"? If there is, I have to yet experience it.

Sure there is - it mainly comes from "outgassing" from plastic adhesives, seat covers, and carpets. It's not as strong as "new car smell", but I've noticed it before.

I'd argue that a plane stops being "new" once it picks up "air sickness smell"...  Smile


User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3535 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3049 times:



Quoting Rwy04LGA (Reply 5):
The minute they drive it off the lot?

 checkmark 

As far as I'm concerned, once someones sat on the seats, and used the "facilities" its no longer new.


User currently offlineADent From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1358 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3010 times:

Like a new car - one the airline takes ownership and flies it off the lot it no longer new.

After that there is no technical definition. A new plane at UA is a lot different than a new plane at SQ.

To me new looks good inside and out, everything works as well as when it delivered, and was acquired more recently than others. And each category earns points and on a sliding scale.

Being the latest model also helps too. A fresh 787 would seem newer than a fresh 767.


User currently offlineLegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2881 times:



Quoting Goose (Reply 10):
It's better than new car smell, a

That lasts only until the obese guy who was at the bar drinking beer and downing nachos sits in the seat and releases airborn fecal matter.  butthead 

Then you reach for the air sickness bag.  vomit 

After which I surrender and ask for a new seat.  whiteflag 

I have been on a flight like this already. I had to ask for a different seat before we left the gate area.

Mark in MKE



I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4384 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 2689 times:

I personally would set the end of the "new" phase to the end of the first day in normal revenue service.

User currently offlineGoose From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 1840 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2485 times:



Quoting Legacytravel (Reply 21):
That lasts only until the obese guy who was at the bar drinking beer and downing nachos sits in the seat and releases airborn fecal matter.

You don't need to be obese to do that. It's a great way to get a whole row of seats to yourself... Big grin



"Talk to me, Goose..."
User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1923 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2406 times:



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 2):
soon WN will take delivery of N936WN - how long will it be until the plane its self is no longer considered new

I still consider any of our N900 tail numbers as "new". The first one, N900WN was built in 2007. I don't consider the N200s as new.



My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlineLegacytravel From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 1067 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (5 years 2 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2377 times:



Quoting Goose (Reply 23):
You don't need to be obese to do that. It's a great way to get a whole row of seats to yourself

This is true. I was on a flight from DTW-MCO a few years ago. I was in second row of coach and a guy in the front row was drunk and puked all over himself and wife before we had left. The door was closed and pushback started the F/A asked if he wanted to go back to the gate and clean up and we would wait for him. He said no and I got to smell stale puke and cheap perfume. I remember the sound of him puking on floor like it was yeterday. Somehow my pizza did not seem very tasty on that flight.

Mark in MKE



I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
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