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Horizon Q400 Stuck At PRC, APU Generator Failure  
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 6562 times:

So I'm at work dispatching aircraft for my school and there's a Horizon Q400 sitting across the ramp. The captain (who is an alumni at my school) came over to do a tour of the school to kill some time since him (and 60 other pax) will be stranded here for the night. He told us that apparently the APU's generator failed. As to why they're stranded I'm not sure, IIRC I know the generator can be MEL'd in some planes, maybe not in this one. I tried to catch the N number but looking through the heat haze with the binoculars I'm unable to read it. I may drive by it to get the number after work.

Figured I'd give you guys a heads up.

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJRadier From Netherlands, joined Sep 2004, 4722 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week ago) and read 6478 times:

I'd want to say big deal, every airline has AOG's, even at outstations.

I'm not completely familiar with the Q400, but I guess that you could MEL the generator (as the aircraft is flyworthy without it) but it is of little use if you don't have a GPU/Airstarter.



For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and ther
User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6379 times:



Quoting JRadier (Reply 1):
I'd want to say big deal, every airline has AOG's, even at outstations.

I know, I figured I'd post it since I've seen posts for less than this here.

Quoting JRadier (Reply 1):
but it is of little use if you don't have a GPU/Airstarter.

Which I think is what's holding them back.


User currently offlineCbphoto From United States of America, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 1572 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6248 times:

Really man??? Slow day at dispatch?


ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
User currently offlineAvion826 From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 27 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6236 times:

If the APU itself still is operable (meaning it can still supply bleed air), you should be able to start an engine using external power + APU bleed air. We've done this several times on the CRJ200/700. If the ENTIRE APU is MEL'ed, you need external AC + high-pressure air to start. If just the GEN, you need external power, but can still use the APU for the start.

User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3312 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 6214 times:

Is this the first time a Q400 has been stuck at PRC? If you can get a reg. #, that would be awesome.


.......
User currently offlineSocalatc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6121 times:

The Q400 does not require an airstart when the Apu is on MEL.. The only reason why the aircraft would be AOG is if qx didn't have a ground power unit to provide electric, meaning the battery would die if left on for an extended amount of time.

User currently offlineSocalatc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 529 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6101 times:

I just remembered that qx would also cancel a flight if they were unable to cool the cabin. I don't know what the temp in prc is today. But without the apu and a a/c cooling unit they would not be able to cool the pax cabin. I've been on qx out of pdt when that happened. Again, don't know if that could be the reason, but I know it's happened before.

User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6046 times:



Quoting Cbphoto (Reply 3):
Really man??? Slow day at dispatch?

Tell me about it lol

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 5):
Is this the first time a Q400 has been stuck at PRC?

Since QX has started service, yes.

Quoting Jmc1975 (Reply 5):
If you can get a reg. #, that would be awesome.

I couldn't. I just left work. Sorry.

But I saw them fire up the No. 2 engine and do some sort of a run up, with the cabin door closed. They never started #1. Sounded like they were cycling the prop through feathering and ground fine pitch several times, they never went past idle though. Maybe there's more to it than just the APU.


User currently offlineDurangoMac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 743 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5916 times:



Quoting JRadier (Reply 1):
but it is of little use if you don't have a GPU/Airstarter.

Must be that they didn't have access to a GPU because if the Q400 is anything like it's little sibling the Q200 then they only need a GPU. Look at YV's Dash's, they don't have an APU at all.


User currently offlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2442 posts, RR: 23
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5872 times:

Can someone please tell me what "MEL'ed" means?


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineDurangoMac From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 743 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5842 times:



Quoting SXDFC (Reply 10):
Can someone please tell me what "MEL'ed" means?

If my memory service me correct it's Mimium Equipment List. The name doesn't really fit what it does, it's really a list of of itmes that can be not working properly that don't effect the airworthlyness of the aircraft and can be just written up and fixed the next time it gets to a maintenance base.


User currently offlineT prop From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1029 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5812 times:

The Q400 traces its roots back to Canadian bush planes and as such it is still possible to start this aircraft with out any ground equipment or an APU. There must be more to it than just APU problems.

User currently offlineTheGreatChecko From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1130 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5792 times:

I'd put money on the APU gen failed and the batteries are too low to start the engines.

Without ground power in that situation, a Q400 is dead in the water.



"A pilot's plane she is. She will love you if you deserve it, and try to kill you if you don't...She is the Mighty Q400"
User currently offlineT prop From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 1029 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5725 times:



Quoting TheGreatChecko (Reply 13):
I'd put money on the APU gen failed and the batteries are too low to start the engines.

Without ground power in that situation, a Q400 is dead in the water.

x2


User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6118 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5634 times:

The Brazilians were smart on this one. On the E-120, the main starter/generator is same for both engines and APU. Plus, the engines have backups, which means that the main starters can be taken out, and placed onto the APU. Just a little time, and a mechanic, and viola, back in the air.  Smile


Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineGreasemonkey From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 67 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4757 times:



Quoting Avion826 (Reply 4):
If the APU itself still is operable (meaning it can still supply bleed air), you should be able to start an engine using external power + APU bleed air. We've done this several times on the CRJ200/700. If the ENTIRE APU is MEL'ed, you need external AC + high-pressure air to start. If just the GEN, you need external power, but can still use the APU for the start.

Turboprop = Battery start (no air required)



It's usually a good idea to know what all the buttons do...before you push them.
User currently offlineCessna172RG From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 749 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4555 times:

Ok, when I used to work for Horizon...we would get a Q400 on the ramp from time to time and ops at Sea-Tac would call out on the radio and let us know that there would be no APU and that we would still hook up the ground power as normal. The plane would still go out later and start up just fine.

I'm guessing you guys don't have ground power there??



Save the whales...for dinner!!!
User currently offlineA10WARTHOG From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 325 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4183 times:

It could also be a situation where the APU could not be MEL due to another system already on MEL.
You have a criteria that must be met before you can issue an MEL. Example the CVR can be MEL only if the FDR is working.


User currently offlineRailker From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4102 times:



Quoting DurangoMac (Reply 11):
it's Mimium Equipment List. The name doesn't really fit what it does

Well, it actually does in a way. It's the Minimum Equipment List in that it lists what the minimum equipment you are able to fly with is. (For example, say you have 4 cargo smoke detectors, the MEL says you can fly with a minimum of 2 working should one or two go inop)


User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2177 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4036 times:



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 8):
But I saw them fire up the No. 2 engine and do some sort of a run up, with the cabin door closed.

Just thinking perhaps #2 generator was inop and then the apu gen failed on arrival...or vice versa...probably have to have 2 of 3 to dispatch.


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3780 times:



Quoting Cessna172RG (Reply 17):
I'm guessing you guys don't have ground power there??

I'm not 100% certain. but I'm 100% certain I've never actually seen a GPU on the field.

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 20):
Just thinking perhaps #2 generator was inop and then the apu gen failed on arrival...or vice versa...probably have to have 2 of 3 to dispatch.

Makes sense.

I'll be back at work in an hour or so, it was supposed to be fixed last night. So I'll see if it's still sitting out there.


User currently offlineFLY2HMO From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3459 times:

Alright, plane's gone. Nothing to see here anymore.  cheeky 

User currently offlineCbphoto From United States of America, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 1572 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 3334 times:



Quoting FLY2HMO (Reply 21):
I'm not 100% certain. but I'm 100% certain I've never actually seen a GPU on the field.

Well...if I had to guess, I would say Legend aviation should have bought a GPU for the FBO! There are plenty of corporate jets and props that would prefer a GPU start, especially after sitting all night long! And now that I think of it, I know for a fact there is a GPU on the field at PRC, Amflight uses it on there Metros and beeches when they fly into PRC, so yes there is a GPU on the field!!!



ETOPS: Engines Turning or Passengers Swimming
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