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BDL; International Travel?  
User currently offlineCactusBDL From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 18 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4134 times:

With BDL doing major construction; new terminal A and soon to be new terminal B, my questions is this: does BDL have a chance for international travel? NW used to operate the daily AMS flight which was never full. AA flys a 738 to SJU and DL has seasonal travel to CUN. With BOS and JFK being so over-croweded does BDL have a future in flying over the pond?


CactusBDL

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4043 times:

I'm being picky here, I know, but there is nothing international about Hartford-San Juan. It is a 100% domestic route.

I think Hartford will see trans-Atlantic service - maybe AA to Heathrow - when the economy improves.



a.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2926 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 4021 times:

There are flights between Hartford and Toronto and Montreal on Air Canada.

User currently offlineBoeing757/767 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 2282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3964 times:

I'm sure DL will reconsider AMS when the economy improves. It was supposed to come back 5x a week but pulled back again. It's just a matter of time.


Free-thinking, left-leaning secularist
User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1990 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3938 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
I think Hartford will see trans-Atlantic service - maybe AA to Heathrow - when the economy improves.

 checkmark  although maybe not AA unless they get ATI.

Quoting Boeing757/767 (Reply 3):
I'm sure DL will reconsider AMS when the economy improves. It was supposed to come back 5x a week but pulled back again. It's just a matter of time.

I don't know. That wasn't doing so well. CDG, however, should be a winner. And LH from FRA may do well also. I wonder how many pax from BDL's catchment area go TATL every day.



2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3919 times:

Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 4):

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
I think Hartford will see trans-Atlantic service - maybe AA to Heathrow - when the economy improves.

checkmark although maybe not AA unless they get ATI.

They will get ATI. It's not really a question of "if," and no doubt it will allow AA to put their 75Ls on under-performing BA and IB routes, like BWI-LHR and BOS-MAD, and hopefully open new thin markets from London.

[Edited 2009-05-18 08:30:28]


a.
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23026 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 23 hours ago) and read 3906 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
They will get ATI. It's not really a question of "if," and no doubt it will allow AA to put their 75Ls on under-performing BA and IB routes, like BWI-LHR and BOS-MAD.

If fixing underperforming routes is a higher priority than adding new ones or replacing cut ones (e.g. DTW-LHR, which might work with a 75L), then it'll likely be a while before we see AA 75Ls in BDL.

What is the schedule for 75L conversion? How many will AA have in, say, a year or 18 months?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFuturePilot16 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2035 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3796 times:

The problem with a BDL international service is that with JFK and EWR owning the tri-state area, BDL pretty much just serves northern, and eastern CT as well as southern Mass. BDL is a great airport because it's easily accessible inside Connecticut rather than driving to JFK. The problem is that because it serves such a small area, there is not much demand for International flights. Although I could see in the future BDL-LHR or other cities in Europe, other than that, I think the new terminals and expansion will just be used for domestic flights. I think they should focus more on the domestic market where they can make money rather than worry about international flights.


"The brave don't live forever, but the cautious don't live at all."
User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23026 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 3775 times:



Quoting FuturePilot16 (Reply 7):
BDL pretty much just serves northern, and eastern CT as well as southern Mass. BDL is a great airport because it's easily accessible inside Connecticut rather than driving to JFK.

That's still an area of close to three million people, though. The demand is probably there, but leakage both south (to JFK/EWR) and north (to BOS) is a problem.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineCactusBDL From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3722 times:

I heard with the new terminals B6 and VX were going to try and come into BDL. With B6 being a LCC that could hurt WN and US, but as far as VX goes, could there be some international travel with them?

User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3717 times:



Quoting CactusBDL (Reply 9):
I heard with the new terminals B6 and VX were going to try and come into BDL.

I'm pretty sure that F9 would come back in way before VX ever will, IMO.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineCactusBDL From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3678 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 10):
I'm pretty sure that F9 would come back in way before VX ever will, IMO.

I agree with you there, however Frontier only had the single red-eye DEN-BDL....is there more of a market for F9 out of BDL?


User currently offlineRcardinale From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 190 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3676 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):
and IB routes, like BWI-LHR and BOS-MAD

Is BOS-MAD and under performing route? I've flown it twice and scheduled for a 3rd time and everytime it has been full. Anyways Im sure BDL will get European service once the economy improves at least one London frequency.


User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3668 times:



Quoting CactusBDL (Reply 11):
I agree with you there, however Frontier only had the single red-eye DEN-BDL....is there more of a market for F9 out of BDL?

If we were to bring back BDL, the chance are that it won't be a red-eye at all. I would say F9 learned a lesson about that red-eyes are not always the greatest thing... I think we angered a lot of pax when we pulled out. But then again, we had to because we sold off aircraft during bankruptcy, so some stations had to be sacrificed...BDL being one of those stations unfortunately.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3601 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
I'm being picky here, I know, but there is nothing international about Hartford-San Juan. It is a 100% domestic route.

The United States State Department does NOT recognize mainland travel to any territories as domestic. The DOT considers domestic travel as travel in the contiguous United States.

http://www.state.gov/ofm/resource/imp/tax/20129.htm


User currently offlineB752os From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1322 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3597 times:



Quoting Rcardinale (Reply 12):

Is BOS-MAD and under performing route? I've flown it twice and scheduled for a 3rd time and everytime it has been full. Anyways Im sure BDL will get European service once the economy improves at least one London frequency.

About 8 months out of the year, it sees solid loads. The other 4 months, November through February, loads drop off.


I am still surprised Hartford cannot support at least 1 daily flight to Europe.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3589 times:



Quoting B752os (Reply 15):
About 8 months out of the year, it sees solid loads. The other 4 months, November through February, loads drop off.

Unfair comparison considering that Iberia substantially cuts Boston capacity outside of June, July and August.

The route can support a daily 75L year-round, and at good yields. A340 is too big a plane, and yields remain poor to Boston and Washington. Last year both performed so poorly it was routed MAD-BOS-IAD-MAD (3w) for a good chunk of the winter. Though both BOS-MAD and IAD-MAD will be important for the future position of Madrid as a key oneWorld European hub.

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 14):
The United States State Department does NOT recognize mainland travel to any territories as domestic. The DOT considers domestic travel as travel in the contiguous United States.

For the purposes of some taxes, sure.

There is no customs, no immigration, and American carriers fly domestic Puerto Rico routes, because, after all, Puerto Rico is part of the United States. It is a 100% domestic route. There is absolutely nothing international about BDL-SJU.



a.
User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 3535 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 16):
There is no customs, no immigration, and American carriers fly domestic Puerto Rico routes, because, after all, Puerto Rico is part of the United States. It is a 100% domestic route. There is absolutely nothing international about BDL-SJU.

While respecting your opinion, for consitency sake Federal law requires any travel from the mainland US to PR, Virgin Island, Guam and American Somoa to be reported as International Travel. Not just for taxes or Customs clearence.

The FAA Federal Aviation Regulations Part 121 covers passenger airlines. Subpart B categorizes airlines operating certificates into 3 parts. Domestic, Flag Carrier and Supplemental.
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...rowse/Title14/14cfr121_main_02.tpl

Domestic operating certificates relegate airlines to the Contiguous US (48 States). Thus any operations under Part 121 outside the Contiguous US requires a Flag Carriers certification on the airlines operating certificate. I think Supplemental does too, I cannot remember. I do know Supplemental offers airlines a lot of flexibility with greater reporting to the FAA.

The Department of Transportation - U.S. FLAG CARRIER OR AMERICAN FLAG CARRIER: One of a class of air carriers holding a Certificate of Public Convenience and Necessity
issued by the DOT, approved by the President, authorizing scheduled operations over specified routes between the U.S. (and/or its territories) and one or more foreign countries.

All airports in the Contiguous US with service to SJU reports the passengers as International. It is no different than the United Kingdom reporting BA travel between LGW-BDA as International.


User currently offlineBDL2STL2PVG From China, joined Jun 2006, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3495 times:



Quoting CactusBDL (Thread starter):
With BDL doing major construction; new terminal A and soon to be new terminal B

I haven't been to BDL since March, has AA and AC moved out of B? Is B now being razed? I had thought that the B reconstruction was put on hold. Of course, there is nothing posted on the Bradley Field website, but that isn't the most up to date resource.

I know that AA was slated to move into A 20, 22, 24 (or at least 2 of the 3) but it looked pretty much status quo with the snack bar there in mid-March.


User currently offlineCactusBDL From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 18 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 3481 times:



Quoting BDL2STL2PVG (Reply 18):
I haven't been to BDL since March, has AA and AC moved out of B

AA and AC are still in terminal B. Since CO joining the *A they are moving to their new terminal with US and UA. As far as we at the airport know, AA and AC are supposed to be moving out of terminal B anytime now. But yes the snack bar is still there lol.


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23026 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 3421 times:



Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 17):
Domestic operating certificates relegate airlines to the Contiguous US (48 States). Thus any operations under Part 121 outside the Contiguous US requires a Flag Carriers certification on the airlines operating certificate. I think Supplemental does too, I cannot remember. I do know Supplemental offers airlines a lot of flexibility with greater reporting to the FAA.

You're not seriously arguing that SEA-ANC or LAX-HNL is international, are you?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3383 times:



Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 14):
The DOT considers domestic travel as travel in the contiguous United States.

Really?! SEA-HNL and SEA-ANC isn't domestic?! News to me.



A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2926 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3381 times:



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 21):
Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 14):
The DOT considers domestic travel as travel in the contiguous United States.

Really?! SEA-HNL and SEA-ANC isn't domestic?! News to me.

As well as intra-state fights wholly within Alaska and Hawaii? Doesn't make sense.


User currently offlineFlyingSicilian From Italy, joined Mar 2009, 1332 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3360 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 2):
There are flights between Hartford and Toronto and Montreal on Air Canada.

Don't those all pre-clear CBP in Canada? I don't know for sure, since I've heard some pre-clearance has a time limit.

It seems the only flight right now that would require CBP would be from CUN, since AC preclears and SJU is not international by CBP standards (no matter what the FAA rules with regards to international taxes, when you get your US passport stamped in PR, it would be different).
edit-spelling

[Edited 2009-05-18 21:21:24]


“Without seeing Sicily it is impossible to understand Italy.Sicily is the key of everything.”-Goethe "Journey to Italy"
User currently offlineAvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 3354 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 20):
You're not seriously arguing that SEA-ANC or LAX-HNL is international, are you?



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 21):


Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 14):
The DOT considers domestic travel as travel in the contiguous United States.

Really?! SEA-HNL and SEA-ANC isn't domestic?! News to me.

The passenger data is recorded as International traffic. The FAA treats the flights the same as SEA - YYZ. Every few years this comes up on A.net.


25 FlyingSicilian : For the FAA yes you are certainly correct, but for CBP no, which has more to do with the airport infrastructure and route planning.
26 Cubsrule : YYZ and YUL both pre-clear and arrive at domestic gates (in B, for now). Does that make them international flights? If the FAA starts recording ORD-L
27 AvConsultant : This is not that hard to understand. If you knew the definition of contiguous United States and the difference between Domestic and Flag Carrier oper
28 Cubsrule : Has anyone actually used the international arrivals building at BDL? It looks really small-- how well does it work? I'm well aware of the difference b
29 AirframeAS : Plus, between those two destinations...you should add that a passport is not required for travel at any given point.
30 AvConsultant : I've been in this business for over 30 years and this is the first time I have ever had to explain in this great of detail. All commerce between the
31 28L28L : Do any carriers still use the more southern concourse of the original Murphy building, or was this completely closed when the present WN/DL/NW concour
32 Viscount724 : IATA definitely considers travel between the USA and any U.S. territories as domestic, not international. As you no doubt know, air travel between po
33 CactusBDL : yes I was talking about Europe and so forth. Not SJU or anything in Canada.
34 787KQ : Maybe for DOT purposes, but when the airlines reduced/eliminated paying commissions on domestic tickets they did the same for the territories and pos
35 Cubsrule : Right. No one disagrees about any of this. But if you take the argument to its logical conclusion, it also makes flights from the contiguous states t
36 Sectflyer : It may be slightly off topic. But on the subject of BDL, am I the only one who is peeved at how much there website sucks. It provides no useful inform
37 AirframeAS : I dunno what you're talking about. The site looks good. What exactly do you think is wrong with it?
38 Jetblueguy22 : Much of the site has not been updated in quite sometime. When NW/DL said that they were gonna hold off on the AMS flights it took about 2 weeks befor
39 Sectflyer : Well lets see. I need to find out current arrival and departure status... Nope not on there website. I want to see what restaurants and other vendors
40 IliriBDL : I agree, but then again the airport is owned by the state, everything is done slowly here starting from the constructions up to the website. They bas
41 Post contains links AirframeAS : Here: http://www.bradleyairport.com/Flights/index.aspx Here: http://www.bradleyairport.com/Services/services.aspx Here: http://www.bradleyairport.com
42 Sectflyer : I have no bone to pick with BDL. It is generaly the airport I use most. I'm just saying that there website is useless to the traveling public. I get t
43 AirframeAS : I agree with this because I had to kind of navigate the site a bit more than I really should. But I did find the stuff you were looking for, at least
44 Afitch7881 : Are you forgetting NW flew AMS-BDL for over a year? Where do you think that flight went through customs? Delta's flight to CUN also goes through ther
45 CactusBDL : Thsi is true, the building is small but BDL does not have alot of international travel. However with the new construction plans, the new internationa
46 Cubsrule : No-- I ran in to the 75 quite a bit there in the late summer and early fall. I think you've misinterpreted my question. Clearly, passengers have used
47 Sectflyer : I have used it. AMS-BDL in Nov 07. It was the most convenient international arrival I have ever had. From touchdown to out the door with my bags was a
48 Afitch7881 : Yes, I did misread you, sorry. Now I understand.
49 Cubsrule : No worries-- it happens to all of us from time to time.
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