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VLM Axing LCY To MAN After 6 And A Half Years  
User currently offlineBhxdtw From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1092 posts, RR: 5
Posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6092 times:

VLM are axing LCY - MAN services effective the end of May 2009.
Reason is due to increased competition from Virgin trains.

Very Sad !  Sad

source - VLM

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBhxdtw From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1092 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6085 times:

btw - my source is my rep at the airline, nothing is mentioned on their website at the moment, But I can assure you it is fact.

Thanks!
J


User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3188 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 6054 times:

Was posted on luchtvaartnieuws.nl already last friday. I think it's safe to assume it's true.

User currently offlineDaleaholic From UK - England, joined Oct 2005, 3208 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5976 times:

Is a shame, but goes to show that airlines have to be competitively priced these days, as a lot of people care more about money than service.


Religion is an illusion of childhood... Outgrown under proper education.
User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7447 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5951 times:
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And noted in MAN news 29 with comments on how good the train service is. Just surprised their RTM-MAN service is still continuing.

User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5938 times:

A couple of years ago, VLM Airlines offered 9 or so daily flights from MAN to LCY plus 4-5 from LPL.

Also the number of VLM flights from LCY to ANR and BRU has decreased dramatically. BRU is now down to a single daily flight, ANR to four daily flights.

Shows nicely how difficult it is for airlines to compete with high speed trains over shorter distances.


User currently offlineBhxdtw From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1092 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5877 times:

As mentioned, its a shame as the trains are not always as nice as the superior VLM service.
Back in the day, all travellers on the LPL-LCY services had automatic access to the business lounges also !!

They were very convenient quick transport links between the North and the City.
 Sad


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19260 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5864 times:

Very predictable considering trains from Manchester to London take from 1h 58m and can be up to around 4 per hour during peak times. Fast and regular services.

Hopefully VG will be able to utilise their aircraft and staff on more profitable routes.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineBhxdtw From Eritrea, joined Feb 2005, 1092 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5801 times:



Quoting Pe@rson (Reply 7):
Hopefully VG will be able to utilise their aircraft and staff on more profitable routes

Actually my source informed me that staff had already been laid off..
No idea about the aircraft... I guess if they had to store any, it wouldnt be in London !!

j


User currently offlineSpud757 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5755 times:

What are the chances of BA considering LCY-MAN ops? Or with the trains being what they are is this pretty much end of the line for LCY-MAN?

Would BE ever consider such routes as LCY to MAN / LPL / LBA after all they do aim at the regions and might be interested in the business travellers wanting to fly into the city (versus their new LGW base).


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19260 posts, RR: 52
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5742 times:



Quoting Spud757 (Reply 9):
Or with the trains being what they are is this pretty much end of the line for LCY-MAN?

I wouldn't want to launch LCY-MAN! And BACX seem pretty solid, so I can't imagine them doing it either.

Quoting Spud757 (Reply 9):
Would BE ever consider such routes as LCY to MAN / LPL / LBA after all they do aim at the regions and might be interested in the business travellers wanting to fly into the city (versus their new LGW base).

I wouldn't bet on it.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5666 times:



Quoting Spud757 (Reply 9):

Would BE ever consider such routes as LCY to MAN / LPL / LBA after all they do aim at the regions and might be interested in the business travellers wanting to fly into the city (versus their new LGW base).

All these routes have been tried - MAN by Air UK and VLM, LPL by VLM twice, LBA by bmi. VLM certainly has a product that is much more appealing to business customers than flybe. If they cannot make it work, flybe will not be either.

High speed trains have killed a couple of domestic services in Germany, e.g. CGN-STR/NUE/FRA. Unless there is a considerable amount of connecting traffic, I really do not see how airlines can compete on such city pairs.


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5640 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 11):
High speed trains have killed a couple of domestic services in Germany, e.g. CGN-STR/NUE/FRA. Unless there is a considerable amount of connecting traffic, I really do not see how airlines can compete on such city pairs.

I think MAN will finally end up having services to LHR only for connecting passengers. There is no reason anybody would take a plane when the total time between central London and Central Manchester is 1:58.

Ultimately, VLM will end up using those slots to other destinations. What about DUS, TXL, CPH, CGN, BSL, ABZ or OSL?



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineGT4EZY From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2007, 1804 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5637 times:



Quoting Bhxdtw (Reply 1):
btw - my source is my rep at the airline, nothing is mentioned on their website at the moment, But I can assure you it is fact.

We trust you........it's long been rumoured and is in todays MEN newspaper.



Proud to fly from Manchester!
User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5619 times:



Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 12):
Ultimately, VLM will end up using those slots to other destinations. What about DUS, TXL, CPH, CGN, BSL, ABZ or OSL?

Not sure about the viability of those. DUS, CPH and BSL all have competition by Star with faster equipment (jets on DUS and BSL - not sure who is doing CPH for SK currently). TXL, CGN and OSL have been tried in the past repeatedly and did not work (TXL and OSL would also be quite a stretch on a Fokker 50). If ABZ happens, it certainly would be more of a Cityjet by Scot type of operation.

As for the future of VLM, they are trying to find some work outside LCY, e.g. on their new ANR-FRA route.


User currently offline8herveg From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 1258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5577 times:



Quoting Spud757 (Reply 9):
What are the chances of BA considering LCY-MAN ops?

I thought of this too. I could only see them launching a 3-4 times daily service though, but it could connect to their European network at LCY, although it is small.


User currently offlinePe@rson From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 19260 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5538 times:



Quoting 8herveg (Reply 15):

I thought of this too. I could only see them launching a 3-4 times daily service though, but it could connect to their European network at LCY, although it is small.

I would be shocked if that happened. Indeed, it would be a suicide mission.



"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5517 times:



Quoting 8herveg (Reply 15):
but it could connect to their European network at LCY, although it is small.

Every destination served by BA from LCY, except MAD, is served non-stop from MAN. Plus two of their main LCY destinations - EDI and GLA - would involve back tracking if flown via LCY



Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineDanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1821 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5395 times:

Its a terrible shame. But the trains are fantastic value. For example, today i booked a return flight Manchester to London first class both ways. £33 one way. and only 2 hours. Terrific. Standard fare's start from £11. Too good really.


Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3188 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 5388 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 14):
If ABZ happens, it certainly would be more of a Cityjet by Scot type of operation.

Given that both Cityjet and VLM are currently AF-KL, and that they're gradually becoming one carrier, I guess it's just a matter of availability of equipment when deciding who is flying what route. Maybe there will just be some "swapping around".

Quoting Humberside (Reply 17):
Every destination served by BA from LCY, except MAD, is served non-stop from MAN.

And wouldn't MAD-MAN be more the domain of LS, U2, FR, IB, BD or BE rather than BA.

Also, I'd think that LCY slots are too valuable to use it as a connection hub. Although in the current economic climate it might be away to make use of the resources, as soon as the economy bounces back LCY will probably be fully used by O&D-traffic alone.


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5342 times:

Actually, even as a "standalone" carrier VLM had offered a fair amount on onward connections from MAN, LPL, IOM or JER, e.g. destinations like ANR, LUX, AMS, RTM, BRU. With the added LCY network of AF/KL, the choices were even bigger. It all did not help.

User currently offlineSKORD From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 562 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 5313 times:

Such a shame to see MAN loose yet another quality airline. (ok RTM and ANU still left, but not for much longer i guess)

User currently offlineAirNZ From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5242 times:



Quoting Daleaholic (Reply 3):
as a lot of people care more about money than service.

In many ways it is a shame that some air services need to be curtailed, but surely your above comment is the correct attitude by the majority of people in this day and age. They both are, at the end of the day, mere transportation and exactly what 'service' is needed for the likes of MAN-LON? In this particular respect, what service can be found on an aircraft that is unobtainable on a train......which is much cheaper and MUCH faster?


User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7447 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 5226 times:
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Quoting AirNZ (Reply 22):
They both are, at the end of the day, mere transportation and exactly what 'service' is needed for the likes of MAN-LON? In this particular respect, what service can be found on an aircraft that is unobtainable on a train

A smooth transfer at LHR/LGW to connect on to other services? That's where the market is shrinking to.


User currently offlineDanfearn77 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2008, 1821 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 5118 times:

I know that some companies are now using the train rather than flying to show they are 'green', jumping on the environmental bandwagon. Even the company i work for will shove us on the train, even if its twice the price.


Eagles may soar high, but weasels dont get sucked into jet engines!
25 LuftyMatt : No competition from virgin trains there, why would it not anyway? Yeah, not the best bet for an airline to make. Looks like what's been happening on
26 Aerokiwi : I think the collapse in corporate travel brought on by the financial crisis has had some bearing on this, particualrly given the business segment Lond
27 David_itl : The number of pax on the route has been around half that of ANR, and ANR was floating around 50% loads!
28 LondonCity : But the trains aren't good value if you buy "walk-up" peak time fares. See how much Virgin Trains charge for flexible London-Manchester returns in fi
29 Pe@rson : Of course they're not always. Just like airlines aren't. Yield management. Up to 4 services per hour at times.
30 David_itl : Where's the 4th service? All literature I've seen just says 3 per hour (2 via Stoke, 1 via Crewe). Of course, all this is a far cry from when he stat
31 Djb77 : Much as I would like to see it happen, I really can't see ABZ working from LCY for VLM (if they were to try): British European (now flybe) tried it so
32 Pe@rson : According to thetrainline.com, there are, for example, trains from Manchester to London at 0610, 0635, 0643, 0700 = 4 in 1 hour. All non-change, and
33 Hotelmode : But thats comparing apples with oranges, if you are going to compare the trains fully flex walk up product then you must compare it with the airlines
34 LuftyMatt : I see, still 50% loads are better than when they used to do on both RTM and ANR before they packed up the service last time. I remember dispatching t
35 Danfearn77 : I have to admit these two destinations from MAN have always struck me as very odd destinations. So hearing that the loads are low doesnt surprise me.
36 SKORD : Just for the fact of having the experience, my Partner and i flew today... MAN-LHR BA A-320 LCY-MAN VG F-50 What a superb day out!!! Excellent crew on
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