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Lufthansa First Class Update?  
User currently offlineSkane340 From Sweden, joined May 2008, 86 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 59338 times:

As I fly frequently with LH in business and sometimes in First I wonder if the "old fashioned" first at LH will be updated? (I mostly fly 744)

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineExsr From Germany, joined Sep 2008, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 59138 times:

It will be updated soon. But the style will stay the same: cold and unpersonal - not the warm colours and feeling of an SQ or Thai FC.

A friend of mine, who is also doing the lounge design for LH, is working in that project and updates me pretty frequently.


User currently offlineAlitaliaDC10 From Australia, joined Dec 2008, 240 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 58973 times:

I flew LH F in 2004 FRA-SIN - while it was outdated, I found the whole experience excellent. The crew were highly professional and efficient. Flight was on time and I had some great Italian food (but I biased  Smile ...can't wait to try the 748i - I'm sure LH will make a great success of that too...anyone know where F will be located on the 748? Will it be similar to the current 744 layout?

Also does anyone remember the original F on LH's 744s when they first got them? The seat pairs would swivel round so you could face you neighbours...I had a promotional kit circa 1990 - wish I could find it - it was so bizarre!



Orbis non sufficit
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 58953 times:

First class seats were a passenger can not get to the aisle unobstructed when he/she wants have become sub standard. LH has to come up with something different then 2-2 for the narrow upperdeck..

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/8/0/2/1415208.jpg


User currently offlinePA101 From Germany, joined Jan 2005, 491 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 58780 times:



Quoting AlitaliaDC10 (Reply 2):
anyone know where F will be located on the 748? Will it be similar to the current 744 layout?

I'm sure it'll be in the upper deck. A LH FA once told me, they have questioned their first class pax and those simply want to "walk upstairs"... Big grin


User currently offlineLHPII From Croatia, joined May 2009, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 58688 times:



Quoting Exsr (Reply 1):
But the style will stay the same: cold and unpersonal - not the warm colours and feeling of an SQ or Thai FC.

......just the opposite! LH new First Class will follow the same design scheme and color palette and materials as the First class Terminal and lounges. I think we would all agree that brownish and wooden colors are warm colors and LH First Class Terminal looks warm, exclusive and inviting.
The new hard product is developed by UK's Contour Premium Aircraft Seating and fully ready for a launch with arrival of the new A380 in the Q1/2010. Originally LH was suppose to launch the new product in 2007 when A380 was originally to be delivered.
Later on it was decided to launch it anyway in 2008 with a new batch of A330/346 arrival, but again that was called off as LH wanted to review the whole product and add some enhancements to it.

LH new First Class will be very exclusive in its design and layout and A380 will feature only 8 seats in upper deck.

Quoting AlitaliaDC10 (Reply 2):
anyone know where F will be located on the 748? Will it be similar to the current 744 layout?

No, new Business class will be placed in the upper deck of the B747-8, because the space is way too large for only 8 First class seats
8 First class seats are going back downstairs(up front!)  Wink

.......and another thing... as per actual state of affairs B744 will not get a new First class as the aircraft will gradually start leaving the fleet, but the wole experience will be enhanced by only booking 8 pax in the upper deck.


User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1244 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 58666 times:



Quoting AlitaliaDC10 (Reply 2):
The crew were highly professional and efficient.

Leave it to the Germans...



Sic 'em bears
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30855 posts, RR: 86
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 58659 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Back in late 2004 LH Teknik showed two concepts for First Class on the forward main deck of the A380-800, with either eight angled enclosed suites (similar to EK/9W more then SQ) suites in four rows of 1+1 or twelve pod suites in three rows of 1+2+1.

So if First is going upstairs, I take it LH is going to follow EK and have the upper deck all premium cabin product? I am going to hazard a guess that if they did choose the enclosed suites that they would fit upstairs on the upper deck, especially if installed angled. They should also fit in the nose of the 747-8 since it would just be a single row on each side leaving the middle clear.


User currently offlineEarlyNFF From Germany, joined Sep 2007, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 58629 times:

Quoting LHPII (Reply 5):
No, new Business class will be placed in the upper deck of the B747-8, because the space is way too large for only 8 First class seats
8 First class seats are going back downstairs(up front!)

Correct, and this was posted here already a year ago together with the numbers, no time for a search, sorry!

[Edited 2009-05-19 07:37:48]

User currently offlineLHPII From Croatia, joined May 2009, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 58610 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 7):
Back in late 2004 LH Teknik showed two concepts for First Class on the forward main deck of the A380-800, with either eight angled enclosed suites (similar to EK/9W more then SQ) suites in four rows of 1+1 or twelve pod suites in three rows of 1+2+1.

So if First is going upstairs, I take it LH is going to follow EK and have the upper deck all premium cabin product? I am going to hazard a guess that if they did choose the enclosed suites that they would fit upstairs on the upper deck, especially if installed angled. They should also fit in the nose of the 747-8 since it would just be a single row on each side leaving the middle clear.

Indeed there were several purposals at the time but surveys showed that LH customers prefered rather open space as oppose to enclosed suites. LH new First class will therefore feature a seat very much like a new Swiss First class with some extra features  Wink
LH A380 will feature all premium classes in upper deck and economy class in lower deck


User currently offlineEarlyNFF From Germany, joined Sep 2007, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 58567 times:



Quoting LHPII (Reply 9):
LH A380 will feature all premium classes in upper deck and economy class in lower deck

I doubt LH will have a single layout for all 15 A380s, or all 20(+20) B748s, as they have different
business/eco variants on the present B744s. (Which even can be refigured within a couple of hours)

If they did, the option is to offer plenty of upgrades
 scratchchin 


User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 58543 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 3):
First class seats were a passenger can not get to the aisle unobstructed when he/she wants have become sub standard. LH has to come up with something different then 2-2 for the narrow upperdeck..

If you fly LH F, you'll find that getting into the aisle is no problem because there is so much room in between seats.

Still, recliners are indeed becoming a thing of the past, and I'm sure the next version will be quite competitive.


User currently offlineLHPII From Croatia, joined May 2009, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 58518 times:



Quoting EarlyNFF (Reply 10):
I doubt LH will have a single layout for all 15 A380s, or all 20(+20) B748s, as they have different
business/eco variants on the present B744s. (Which even can be refigured within a couple of hours)

indeed LH likes flexibility and adjust very fast to market condition. With old business product LH had 3 different configurations for both B747 and A340 which could have been adjusted in a matter of only 3 hours ground time, however with the latest business product LH also features 3 diffrent configurations but this time they are not changed on a regular basis as before(more complexed seats). Up until recently all 30 B744 featured 80 seats C class configuration and only with the beginning of recession LH decided to switch to lower 66 seats C class configurations on some aircraft due to lower demand.
exact configurations can be found here(at the bottom): http://www.mucforum.de/showthread.php?t=23834


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 58372 times:



Quoting Trvlr (Reply 11):
Quoting Keesje (Reply 3):
First class seats were a passenger can not get to the aisle unobstructed when he/she wants have become sub standard. LH has to come up with something different then 2-2 for the narrow upperdeck..

If you fly LH F, you'll find that getting into the aisle is no problem because there is so much room in between seats.

Still, recliners are indeed becoming a thing of the past, and I'm sure the next version will be quite competitive.

Are these the same seats they had ..8-9 yrs ago ? If you have a window seat & the guy next to you is sleeping can / could you walk out? Anyway 2-2 on 747 upperdeck is something most airlines do for business class. Take a look at other Star Carriers and i guess pressure is not only from customers. I wouldn't be surpized if LH move first to A-zone on 747-8i. Less seats, The long UD F-class would probably have very low factors..


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8323 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 58209 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Its always been odd Lufthansa is the only airline with Upper Deck 744 First Class. Most airlines have it in its natural place on a 747, the A zone. Business Class is on the upper deck for most if not all airlines as well as the main deck.

User currently offlineLHPII From Croatia, joined May 2009, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 58137 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 13):
Are these the same seats they had ..8-9 yrs ago ?

Yes, those are the same seats that were introduced at the end of 1997

Quoting Keesje (Reply 13):
If you have a window seat & the guy next to you is sleeping can / could you walk out?

Sure, there are still a plenty of room for you to come out without obstructing a sleeping passenger at aisle seat. In fact, it is still the First class product with one of the largest seat pitch around.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 13):
Anyway 2-2 on 747 upperdeck is something most airlines do for business class. Take a look at other Star Carriers and i guess pressure is not only from customers.

Outdated onboard hard product LH has leveled out with excellent inflight service and superior ground product that hardly any airline has matched so far, although it was introduced back in 2004.......... and you would be quite surprised to know how many followers LH current First product has due to its seat arrangement which is excellent for couples!  Wink

Quoting Keesje (Reply 13):
I wouldn't be surpized if LH move first to A-zone on 747-8i. Less seats, The long UD F-class would probably have very low factors..

you are absolutely right......... First class goes to A-zone on B747-8 with only 8 seats due to streched upper deck which is much more economical for Business class!


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30855 posts, RR: 86
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 58070 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

LH moving First into the A-Zone would be a bummer for me. I don't like the A zone because it feels so claustrophobic and cramped and this is why I avoid the 747 where possible except with LH.

But I can understand why they would not be interested in 20-24 F seats along the upper deck, as that is a seriously large cabin and demand doesn't support it. So I'll just seek out the A340 and A380 when traveling LH once the 744s go away (or are reconfigured).


User currently offlineLHPII From Croatia, joined May 2009, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 57765 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 16):
LH moving First into the A-Zone would be a bummer for me. I don't like the A zone because it feels so claustrophobic and cramped and this is why I avoid the 747 where possible except with LH


..........but if there are only 8 seats spread around A-zone it won't be so claustrophobic, infact it is going to be roomier then any First class around!


User currently onlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2419 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 57624 times:



Quoting Keesje (Reply 3):
First class seats were a passenger can not get to the aisle unobstructed when he/she wants have become sub standard. LH has to come up with something different then 2-2 for the narrow upperdeck..

This is actually very easy to do in the 747 upper deck if you put the seats diagonally so that the feet are angled towards the aisle.

If they wanted to keep F in the upper deck they could always have it in the fore part of the UD, and leave the aft part for J.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25106 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 57445 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 16):
LH moving First into the A-Zone would be a bummer for me. I don't like the A zone because it feels so claustrophobic and cramped and this is why I avoid the 747 where possible except with LH.

I think you're in the minority. I (and I expect many others) have the exact opposite view of the A-zone vs. the upper deck. I've always thought it was very spacious and private, while the upper deck is like flying on a 737 or any other narrow-body aircraft. Taht's no doubt why virtually every carrier (except LH) with F class on 747s still uses the A-zone.


User currently offlineLHPII From Croatia, joined May 2009, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 57401 times:



Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 18):
If they wanted to keep F in the upper deck they could always have it in the fore part of the UD, and leave the aft part for J.

in that way exclusivness would completely be ruined and it would be hard to organize service from the same galley which also wouldn't be large enough to support both F and C classs service.

Also, would you push first class service trolley in front of C pax eyes in order to bring them up to the first class?! I don't think so!
There are also other issues like First pax would have to wait for C pax to desembark first which is also not very First class, etc.


User currently offlineLHPII From Croatia, joined May 2009, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 57335 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19):
upper deck is like flying on a 737 or any other narrow-body aircraft. Taht's no doubt why virtually every carrier (except LH) with F class on 747s still uses the A-zone

The reason why every airline put their First in A-zone is that they felt they could more efficiently use an upper deck space by placing C class in there, whereas LH wanted to have 16 seats which couldn't have been placed in A-zone and also to be as spacious as it is in the upper deck.
Also LH wanted to give its pax sense of an exclusivness and private jet feel by not being mixed with cattle class  Wink


User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 56148 times:

My question is... Why do LH always lag behind other major airlines with their products? They introduced PTVs years after other airlines, their business product was updated much later and their first class product is light years behind those of other major airlines (apart from BA)..

Anyway maybe they have a reason...



Next Flights: LGW-SVG (738-DY), SVG-LHR (319-BA), LHR-HKG (388-BA), HKG-SYD (333-CX), SYD-HKG (333-CX), HKG-LHR (388-BA)
User currently onlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2419 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 55727 times:



Quoting LHPII (Reply 20):
in that way exclusivness would completely be ruined and it would be hard to organize service from the same galley which also wouldn't be large enough to support both F and C classs service.

My idea was for airlines which may want a very small F section, say 4-6 F seats. It wouldn't be economical to put 4-6 seats in the 747 A-zone. But, I do understand that it wouldn't necessarily be ideal.

Quoting LHPII (Reply 20):
Also, would you push first class service trolley in front of C pax eyes in order to bring them up to the first class?! I don't think so!

I really don't think it's that big a deal. Especially as they wouldn't be pushing it past Y, but I get you.

Quoting LHPII (Reply 20):
There are also other issues like First pax would have to wait for C pax to desembark first which is also not very First class, etc.

Yeah granted it's a band-aid solution.  Smile

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 22):
My question is... Why do LH always lag behind other major airlines with their products? They introduced PTVs years after other airlines, their business product was updated much later and their first class product is light years behind those of other major airlines (apart from BA)..

Anyway maybe they have a reason...

I think LH's first focus is on maintaining suitable profitability (as in actually making a good profit, not just "remaining profitable"), they really don't like making "excess" capital expenditures beyond what the market requires. This said, they sure don't let their a/c become as bad as some American legacy carriers.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineHypercott From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 109 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 55697 times:



Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 22):
My question is... Why do LH always lag behind other major airlines with their products? They introduced PTVs years after other airlines, their business product was updated much later and their first class product is light years behind those of other major airlines (apart from BA)..

I think the answer is pretty simple: Because they can afford to! Even with outdated hard product and/or no PTVs in Y (airliners.net forum: "OH MY G*D, what kind of airline is that!?!?"), people keep flying them. It's as simple as that.


25 SeaBosDca : You can also ask the question why other airlines are light-years behind LH. If you value product opulence, they're a bit behind. If you value precisi
26 Lufthansa411 : A lot of it has to do with the other things that LH focuses on instead. For example, many airlines count a "delayed flight" as anything more than 15
27 Skane340 : In my opinion I prefer F on the upper deck as this is a quiter and "exclusive" cabin. The seats in F are not the best If you have a window seat it is
28 AlitaliaDC10 : I think you've hit the nail on the head with that. LH is largely successful because they've focused on running the airlines profitably and efficientl
29 Vfw614 : I guess because they are hugely profitable and don't waste money when it is not really needed. It also shows to some extent that all this First and B
30 LHPII : this depends on how you look at the matter.......if you think of a hard product only, YES, LH does leg behind somewhat, but if you think of a product
31 Keesje : I notice you have some indept knowledge. You probably also know that in the IATA customer satisfaction surveys LH crew scores very average, just like
32 LHPII : I agree to some points in your post, but to some disagree as well. It is well known fact that Asian carriers score much higher in terms of inflight p
33 LXA340 : True it took a long time until the AVOD system was actually implemented. I remember the crew telling me on my first and last A346 flight on LH in May
34 Caspritz78 : Huh! What about the rose at every seat? What is cold about that?
35 Skane340 : Just arrived back after a flight in LH first. It is a great feeling to fly F on their 744. To walk up the stairs feels little exclusive. Food is great
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