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KL Says NO To Connie  
User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 42
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 14968 times:

After about 8 years of dedicated love and labor by a handful of people mostly volunteers KL pulled the plug on the Connie.
Despite earlier promises, the help to get to 2 ex MATS Connie engines from Korea, booked airshows for this year, the arrival of both an US Captain(Al Malecha - FAA pilot and flight engineer instructor and examiner B-17 and Connie) and US flight engineer(Tim Coons - MATS), the help from the FAA to get Al current(he is currently flying the Swiss Connie, non US), the help from Maastricht/Aken airport to facilitate flight training, sorted finances and above all without question the nicest Connie around in perfect state.

Our Connie might have made her last move yesterday during a very successful taxi run.

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Willem Honders



A bloody shame if you ask me.


The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYOWza From South Africa, joined Jul 2005, 4883 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 14977 times:

Sad to see such a classic laid to rest. Let's hope AF/KL have a bumper turnaround in H2 of this year and see fit to resurrect her!

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineDirectorguy From Egypt, joined Jul 2008, 1677 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 14960 times:

When I first saw the threat title, I thought 'Oh, Lockheed is back in business and is offering a nice deal with the Connies to replace those old MD11s'.
Guess I was wrong  Smile

Hope that an appeal can be made to return the Connie to service. Would be a shame not to.


User currently offlineTimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 14937 times:
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What a terrible shame. I was looking forward to seeing it in action this year after waiting for so many years after its arrival to the Netherlands. Hopefully KLM will change their mind!

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1863 posts, RR: 42
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 14920 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

What a terrible news! I've been looking forward to seeing her flying for so long  

Let's just hope they will keep the engines operational... Nothing like standing 10 meters from that plane with those 4 R3350 engines running like a dream!

Still a big thanks to all the people who worked to get her in such mint condition!

[Edited 2009-05-20 13:47:27]


Nothing's worse then flying the same registration twice, except flying it 4 times..
User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 42
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14757 times:



Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 4):
Let's just hope they will keep the engines operational

Sorry but we can't.
If she ain't gonna fly we will move her inside and preserve the engines never to come out again.



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineKey From Netherlands, joined Feb 2005, 99 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14628 times:

Willem, we are not giving up. We are going to make all the noise we can. This madness has to be reverted. All those extremely dedicated people may not be let down like this. I'm climbing my rooftop now, ready to shout!

Erik



... slides!
User currently offlinePlaneInsomniac From Canada, joined Nov 2007, 678 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14560 times:

How about looking for a different sponsor, then? Or is this out of the question? Granted, in the current economic times there won't be many organizations / companies having the required millions lying around.


Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 42
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14337 times:



Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 7):
How about looking for a different sponsor, then? Or is this out of the question?

A sponsor is not the problem, the Connie is self supporting.
Many individuals and companies have donated money to get the Connie flying, money that now has to be trasferred back which is a major task anyway.
KL although a good help in terms of parts and tools does not sponsor the Connie.
They are however at the top of the pyramid of all Aviodrome and DDA activities.
All we need is their YES instead of NO.



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineExFATboy From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2974 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 14168 times:



Quoting Aviopic (Reply 8):
A sponsor is not the problem, the Connie is self supporting.
Many individuals and companies have donated money to get the Connie flying, money that now has to be trasferred back which is a major task anyway.
KL although a good help in terms of parts and tools does not sponsor the Connie.
They are however at the top of the pyramid of all Aviodrome and DDA activities.
All we need is their YES instead of NO.

Would still seem that if KLM doesn't own the Connie and doesn't sponsor the restoration, what gives them a "veto" power? Paint over the KLM livery (if it's in KLM livery, which it appears to be from that photo), and as long as the private owners have the financial backing and technical support needed to get the appropriate regulatory approvals, why can't they carry on?


User currently offlineConnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 14088 times:

Well, with my handle you certainly know how I feel !

It's a darn shame but I suppose the Board is paying extraordinary attention to the bottom line. I wonder if there is a way to gift her to a charitable trust, similar to the one running the Vulcan in the UK ? It'd be expensive to keep her flying, but damn she's good looking!

I think I just felt the ghost of my father stirring. He was cert mx on the L1049.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offline7673mech From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13721 times:
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Quoting Aviopic (Reply 8):


Quoting PlaneInsomniac (Reply 7):
How about looking for a different sponsor, then? Or is this out of the question?

A sponsor is not the problem, the Connie is self supporting.
Many individuals and companies have donated money to get the Connie flying, money that now has to be trasferred back which is a major task anyway.
KL although a good help in terms of parts and tools does not sponsor the Connie.
They are however at the top of the pyramid of all Aviodrome and DDA activities.
All we need is their YES instead of NO.


What do you need there yes for?


User currently offlineC133 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13310 times:
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Red Bull might jump at the chance to operate the airplane, but there would be trade-offs, like the color scheme, probably. There must be a way.....


Fine: Tax for doing wrong. Tax: Fine for doing well.
User currently offlineDALMD88 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2548 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12408 times:

What a waste. To get this far into a restro project and have it grounded. If KLM has no money invested how do they have any say in the matter?

User currently offlineGeotrash From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12356 times:



Quoting 7673mech (Reply 11):
What do you need there yes for?

Exactly. What do you need from them if it's self-supporting and isn't costing them anything???

Dave


User currently onlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5423 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12024 times:

Maybe if you remind KLM that Lufthansa is restoring a Connie to operating condition, a little sense of competition might arise.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineAviopic From Netherlands, joined Mar 2004, 2681 posts, RR: 42
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12007 times:

Dear historical aviation supporters I have to leave this thread.
Although the whole thing was with the best intentions and factual correct others have concerns about the political impact.

Thanks for your support anyway.
Have one one the Connie.

 champagne  ,
cheers



The truth lives in one’s mind, it doesn’t really exist
User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9004 posts, RR: 76
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12007 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

What about making it an A.net Connie? Everybody pays $5, 99000 users that makes pretty much half a million $  Smile
We could do that every month and then the Connie can fly  Smile

wilco737



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11879 times:



Quoting Aviopic (Reply 16):
Although the whole thing was with the best intentions and factual correct others have concerns about the political impact.

Something about global warming??



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineSingel09 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11112 times:
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KLM 90 years this year, what a great moment to get this baby flying again .. and they say no? Politics my friends .. cant be anything else

User currently offlineTimdeGroot From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 3674 posts, RR: 64
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11033 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Singel09 (Reply 19):
KLM 90 years this year, what a great moment to get this baby flying again .. and they say no? Politics my friends .. cant be anything else

They spent a lot of dough on that 737 retro scheme but they wont support the connie?

Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 17):
What about making it an A.net Connie? Everybody pays $5, 99000 users that makes pretty much half a million $ Smile
We could do that every month and then the Connie can fly

Now there's a thought Smile

Tim



Alderman Exit
User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1791 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10788 times:

Oh how very very sad!

I saw this Connie on my visit to Lelystad a few years ago. It is a beautiful bird, very well restored. I really hoped she would fly once again.

Is it possible to appeal this ban, go to court even? Can the advice of independent technical experts be sought to make KL reverse its stand?


Bad one KLM, very bad one! We will never forgive you for this  Angry



Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4325 posts, RR: 36
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10335 times:



Quoting WILCO737 (Reply 17):
What about making it an A.net Connie? Everybody pays $5, 99000 users that makes pretty much half a million $

Most of the users here don't care about the Connie (or other propliners) that much, it's all A-380 and 777s for them. Otherwise it would have been a great idea.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6465 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10243 times:



Quoting Singel09 (Reply 19):
KLM 90 years this year, what a great moment to get this baby flying again .. and they say no? Politics my friends .. cant be anything else

Please explain what this decision has to do with politics. I don't understand your use of the word in this context.


User currently offlineWILCO737 From Greenland, joined Jun 2004, 9004 posts, RR: 76
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10226 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 22):
Most of the users here don't care about the Connie (or other propliners) that much, it's all A-380 and 777s for them. Otherwise it would have been a great idea.

That's the problem. So we have to find enough people who do care about the Connie. I am so happy that LH is having the old JU-52 and that the Super Star will fly as well for LH  bouncy 

wilco737



It it's not Boeing, I am not going.
25 Petertenthije : This is not about governmental politics, but about corporate politics.
26 Bobnwa : Please explain how "corporate politics" would come into to play in this situation. The point I am trying to make is that the expression "its politica
27 Bennett123 : The Constellation is not my favourite, but surely we could find $5 each.
28 Kiwiandrew : sorry for being a bit thick - but what exactly has KL said 'no' to ? From what has been posted it does not seem that they were supplying funds or spon
29 Wintonc : As corporations are assaulted for perceived excesses (sponsor golf tournaments, exec fly private, ride in limousines) and unions are asked to take big
30 C133 : It would be nice to understand exactly what KLM's control over the airplane is, but evidently they have it.
31 Lijnden : Translation: KLM is obvious not the problem but the boys in Paris are the problem. They have no KLM-history sense. I guess the connie will be repainte
32 N7190JR : Have you guys thought of hooking up with Save A Connie in The US as a last ditch resort? They already have a working one, and maybe willing to take it
33 SFO2SVO : So what was the formal reason for a NO?
34 Post contains links Viscount724 : The website covering that project, and the history of the L1649A with LH, is excellent. Also covers other LH restored aircraft including the Ju-52. h
35 Post contains links VC10 : I think you will find that "Save a Connie" is having enough trouble keeping their head above water, and would not be interested in taking another Con
36 Pegasus1 : Well, why don't we at least sound everybody out? How much money is needed? Is it ONLY money that's needed? We may not get everybody on side, but we m
37 CrimsonNL : I don't know the full story, but KLM has been a great effort in keeping classic planes afloat. The ridiculous requirements demanded by the EU, like a
38 7673mech : Agreed - I asked the same question yesterday. It would seem the some of the thread starters coworkers have asked him to no longer comment on it. Befo
39 TWAL1011727 : Paint it in TWA 1950s colors....My dad would get a kick out of it. KD
40 Post contains links MasseyBrown : That thought came to me as well. Paint one side in KL colors and the other in AF colors and park it in Belgium. There already is one in Kansas City.
41 Key : That's not a translation, that's a wild guess. And as Aviopic has explained elsewhere, before he was asked to retreat, the guess is wrong. The real r
42 SEPilot : I suspect the problem might be liability-is KLM insuring the plane? If so, that might be the reason for the NO. I also hate to see this outcome-I thin
43 Key : SEPilot, spot on! I just received information that liability is indeed what this is all about. A solution will be sought that does keep the Connie und
44 KennyK : It almost always comes down to money, OK how much is the liability insurance?
45 Post contains links TimdeGroot : http://www.conniesurvivors.com/1-connie_news.htm#MAY22 Interesting article by prop afficionado Ralph Pettersen
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