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UAL To Transition STL To UAX?  
User currently offlineAmwest2United From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 409 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6681 times:
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It was supposedly announced today that UAL will transition to all UAX flying in September, the station was informed today. The 1st of a few transitions for the fall. The employees were told they had a shot at maintaining UAL, but it would be all UAX flying.

[Edited 2009-05-20 15:32:43]


Life is what happens to you while you making plans to live it!
63 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9481 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6629 times:

It's only time before UA outsources all its domestic flying except for transcons and Hawaii.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24995 posts, RR: 85
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6614 times:
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Quoting Amwest2United (Thread starter):
It was supposedly announced today that UAL will transition to all UAX flying in September, the station was informed today

How much mainline flying does United still have out of STL?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineUnitedTristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6595 times:



Quoting Mariner (Reply 2):
How much mainline flying does United still have out of STL?

one mainline daily to/from DEN

-m

 airplane 


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2844 posts, RR: 30
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6543 times:

Sad to see yet another United city lose mainline service, but as those 737s go, so do those cities hanging on to a daily UA flight or two.

Quoting Amwest2United (Thread starter):
The 1st of a few transitions for the fall.

A few transitions?? Well I'd say GRR, ICT, and FSD should certainly be worried. At this point, I wouldn't even be surprised to see the likes of CLE, CVG, SAT, DTW, or ATL go to all UAX. UA seems perfectly happy farming out any and all flights under 4 hours to express carriers. Might not be long before ORD-LGA is down to all RJs...  Yeah sure



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineMax999 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1021 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 6465 times:



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
It's only time before UA outsources all its domestic flying except for transcons and Hawaii.

This is probably true since nowadays the only thing UA cares about is to sell itself to CO. The quicker it can shed its unattractive assets/routes/etc, the more likely the sale will go through.



All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
User currently offlineFreequentFlier From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 893 posts, RR: 12
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 6454 times:

The problem for UA is that it doesn't have a "safe" hub anywhere in its network, as AA has in DFW, US has in CLT, DL has in ATL, MEM and CVG, NW HAD in MSP, and CO has in IAH and EWR.

UA has significant competition in ORD (from both WN in MDW and AA in ORD), DEN (from WN and F9), LAX (pretty much everybody), and SFO (from WN and VX). The only hub where UA doesn't have much competition is in IAD, which is not even the preferred airport for the Washington area. The shift to more United Express domestically is unfortunate, but is probably necessary due to the extensive competition.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24785 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 6411 times:

STL as with other switched stations (BUR, IND, BTV, DAY etc) have been primarily UAX stations for a lengthy amount of time.

At the end of the day it really does not make financial sense to staff these cities with mainline employees at a cost $20/hr+ with overhead burden of equipment and facility cost when the handling can be provided by UAX partner or 3rd party vendor.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 4):
Might not be long before ORD-LGA is down to all RJs...

Yes the 70-seater could be quite possible especially mid-day and on weekends. Does not make much sense to send out A320s with 40 passengers when a RJ could do it more economically.

Lucky for United, they have additional 70-seaters on the way.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22706 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days ago) and read 6379 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 7):
STL as with other switched stations (BUR, IND, BTV, DAY etc) have been primarily UAX stations for a lengthy amount of time.

 checkmark 

STL has pretty consistently had 1 or 2 daily mainline flights for a while, and with crew bases for 2 UAX carriers at STL, that's unlikely to change. It just doesn't make sense for it to remain a mainline station (though FWIW the UA ramp does a fantastic job-- above the wing not so much).

It's a huge jump from transitioning STL and stations like it to Express to "farming out all flights under 4 hours" or "farming out all domestic flying." Neither of those follows from the (very logical) decision they've taken in STL.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineJsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2015 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 6292 times:



Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 4):
Might not be long before ORD-LGA is down to all RJs... Yeah sure

Don't joke about this. I'm sure if UA and AA could find an economical way (and the slots) to fly ORD-LGA every 10 minutes with an ERJ, they'd do it. The legacies seem intent on packing as many RJ flights into LGA as possible.

Sad news for STL. I miss the days (only 15 years ago) when RJs were still unheard of on most routes.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22706 posts, RR: 20
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6241 times:



Quoting Jsnww81 (Reply 9):
The legacies seem intent on packing as many RJ flights into LGA as possible.

LGA is slot controlled. If AA wants to blow 14 slots on hourly ERJ service to RDU, isn't that their prerogative?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineDescendVia From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 6202 times:



Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 1):
It's only time before UA outsources all its domestic flying except for transcons and Hawaii.

 checkmark  and its sad.......... but I would not be surprised to see the bottom feeders take it all over except for the trans' and Hawaii. If you really think about it....... its already half way done in some respects. Next thing you know there will be the bottom feeders flying between the hubs.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 4):
DTW

As much as people say DTW this and that.... remember that we still have a big reservations center in Detroit. Granted Glenn and the gang have showed just how much they care about employees but I would be shocked to see a full pull out from there.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 4):
CLE

Huh.....and it feels like just yesterday we had a base there.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22706 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6090 times:



Quoting DescendVia (Reply 11):
As much as people say DTW this and that.... remember that we still have a big reservations center in Detroit. Granted Glenn and the gang have showed just how much they care about employees but I would be shocked to see a full pull out from there.

A station like DTW that consistently sees multiple daily 752s is probably safe.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineWESTERN737800 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 693 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 6047 times:

It is sad to see the mainline stations going UAX. Although with the 737s getting parked its probaly inevitable. I just feel sad looking at UA today as opposed to 15 years ago.


Bring back Western Airlines!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24785 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5931 times:

In all fairness many of these stations were predominately UAX prior to any decisions regarding the 737 fleet.

It really was not until recent times that United seemingly has taken a close look at station setups and explored the potential of minimizing mixed operation setups. (some others like AA, DL, NW etc have done this ages ago during various schedule and ground handling workouts).



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineKinglobjaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 130 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5898 times:

Just look at IND. Two years ago it was a mix of some regional flying but mostly 735's and Airbii. On certain days they even had 2 or 3 757's thrown into the mix. And all this was just from ORD.

And now...

-Kinglobjaw



Kinglobjaw
User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4554 posts, RR: 21
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5878 times:



Quoting DescendVia (Reply 11):
As much as people say DTW this and that.... remember that we still have a big reservations center in Detroit. Granted Glenn and the gang have showed just how much they care about employees but I would be shocked to see a full pull out from there.

Uhhh, having a res center really doesn't mean anything. US had them in California and Reno (I believe) long after they pulled down the PSA routes. If it is a low cost operation for a call center, then it makes sense. The operation at the airport means absolutely nothing.



Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3380 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5858 times:

I know the IAM and UAl have worked together to maintain M/L employment is a couple of these expressed cities... Hopefully, STL will follow suit.


"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineWhataboutme From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5621 times:



Quoting DescendVia (Reply 11):
and its sad.......... but I would not be surprised to see the bottom feeders take it all over except for the trans' and Hawaii. If you really think about it....... its already half way done in some respects. Next thing you know there will be the bottom feeders flying between the hubs.

It is sad to see UA mainline going away, but where do you get off calling regional carriers bottom feeders. This industry will never be post 9/11. Currently UA needs their so call bottom feeders to help them. UA is not in the posisition to purchase any new smaller A/C like the E-190/195 or 175 to put into their fleet and if they did those mainline pilots and flight attendants would not take a pay cut to work those A/C.
You need to take a look at the employees at regionals, a good 70% of them use to work for a mainline carrier. They are there because they lost their job to many reasons and could not get back on with another mainline carrier and we all love to fly and going regional is the only way we can get back into doing what we enjoy doing.
You UA employees need to realise that it is your management (Glenn and his BOD) doing this to you, not the regionals. We all have bills to pay and have to take a job where ever there is work for us to do what we love to do.
On that HAPPY NOTE.... Fly Safe Everyone


User currently offlineEMB170 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 646 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5536 times:



Quoting Kinglobjaw (Reply 15):
Just look at IND. Two years ago it was a mix of some regional flying but mostly 735's and Airbii. On certain days they even had 2 or 3 757's thrown into the mix. And all this was just from ORD.

And now...

-Kinglobjaw

Used to be UA even sent the 763 from ORD-IND twice a day...

It's unfortunate. Oh well, if you live in IND and want mainline, I guess, fly DL...(or AA to DFW)



Can passenger jets fly as fast as my feet do? Let's find out...
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22706 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 5368 times:



Quoting EMB170 (Reply 19):
Used to be UA even sent the 763 from ORD-IND twice a day...

...and the vast majority of the mainline flying on ORD-IND was for m/x rotation purposes. The demand was never there.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineCYAsutomo From Japan, joined Feb 2008, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 5230 times:

Wow. I remember when UA had a daily DC-10 flight between STL and ORD in the mid-90s.

User currently offline300cap From United States of America, joined May 2007, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4671 times:
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I remember the days where the regional carriers were in a few markets and the mainline had majority of the market, with full flights, but now that is all changing to the opposite. Most of the over flow of major airline passenger disenfranchised by smaller jets and fewer seats will go to the competition who still fly airliners. A sad day for sure. Also, the regional pilots will most like never get a chance to fly a large jetliner, and they will continue to work for below sub-standard pay. The majors could continue to furlough pilots, and those furloughed will come back first before new hires.

User currently offlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5970 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4622 times:



Quoting 300cap (Reply 22):
will go to the competition who still fly airliners.

Last I checked, even a 19 seat turboprop, such as the Beech 1900, or BaE Jetstream 31, are still classified as airliners. So, based on your arguement, the airlines won't lose anybody.

Quoting 300cap (Reply 22):
below sub-standard pay.

Since the pilot pay in this industry is based on how big an aircraft is, the term "below sub-standard pay" is really a subjective matter, since first you would have to find a standard pay rate, and then define an area that would quantify sub-standard pay in order to get something that is below even that.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineLH417AF025 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 276 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4590 times:



Quoting FreequentFlier (Reply 6):
which is not even the preferred airport for the Washington area

it sure is if you want to fly internationally


25 Eghansen : I doubt that is actually true. National may be the preferred airport for DC, but the Virginia suburbs and all those office buildings on the Dulles ro
26 Hiflyer : Had heard 6-7 stations sked for transition this fall...guess STL got it first...dang
27 DesertAir : After reading this thread, I can't help but wonder what is United's business plan? DL with its international expansion and merger with NW has become a
28 Cubsrule : What does transitioning a station with one mainline flight to Express ground handling have to do with UA's business plan?
29 Highliner2 : I think DesertAirs point is along of the lines of the STL station being a microcosm of UAL in general. It does almost seem like they are slowly transi
30 Cubsrule : But it isn't. With AX and G7 having STL bases, they need to move the aircraft back and forth between STL and the hubs. It's the same reason that the
31 Highliner2 : Agreed, But you have 94 737s that are coming out of service. Some of that is being eaten up by capacity reductions. But while UA has cut it's flying,
32 LAXintl : I'm not sure why its sad. Frankly the evolution has been a win-win for the business and consumers. Today thanks to smaller planes dozens of communiti
33 Post contains images UnitedTristar : no I personally think that they have orders with Boeing for 787's and Airbus for some more 319's all wrapped up but are holding off to use it in cont
34 Highliner2 : Yeah, but that would be an expensive bullet, losing something like 91 million dollars on those deposits...according to the SEC filing... And I'm not s
35 Lexy : UA is slowly going the way of YX. An all "Regional" airline. Only difference is they will still have international flying. If they can figure out a w
36 MSYtristar : ATL doesn't have much mainline left as of this summer....2 A320's and 1 A319 to ORD, and the rest of the ORD flights and all DEN/IAD flights are Expre
37 Dtw9 : DTW is down to two UAL mainline flights a day. Both 757's to ORD. Everything else is UALX
38 LAXintl : Sure why not if the economics work. One day there could very well be small equipment with 5000nm range allowing intercontinental service. Might make
39 Highliner2 : Not unless the ATC system is seriously upgraded, if anything we need fewer flights on larger aircraft. What the market can support versus what the sys
40 Mariner : So what's the story with, say, MCI, which still has several mainline flights? mariner
41 Goldenshield : I wouldn't say that ALL domestic will go to regionals. There are certain city pairs that demand a mainline bird---a wide-body especially. MCO, and LA
42 Mercure1 : Some of the UAX partners, such as SKW (Skywest), have better customer service than some mainline carriers Stations w/ less than 3 flts/day using UA 7
43 LAXintl : Looking at the big picture, UAX flying is in no means overtaking mainline and United is not a leader of express flying in the US by any means. Mainlin
44 Cubsrule : Do you have some evidence to support this assertion? The numbers posted by LAXIntl certainly suggest that your assertion is false.
45 Highliner2 : Mariner, I've actually always been surprised how well UA does at MCI. I'm not sure what the deal is, no obvious corporate connections between MCI-DEN
46 BMI727 : I figured that this was coming. I was actually surprised a few weeks ago when a saw a UA 737 at STL. Really, I don't mind as long as they send some S5
47 Dispatchguy : UAL has a business plan? More RJs are NOT what the consumer wants, and the CRJs series from 200 on, are awful.
48 BMI727 : I wonder when they will figure it out and realize how stupid it is to fuel up a jet to carry only 50 people on a flight. There is a nice middle groun
49 Goldenshield : So the CRJ-100 is not awful? The CRJ-700/900 is WONDERFUL bird to fly on, and are wonderful birds to dispatch when used in their proper range roles.
50 Ckfred : What I find interesting is that UA is flying nothing but Express on ORD-STL, while AA is flying nothing but mainline. Yes, I know that ORD and STL are
51 Highliner2 : I think calling STL a hub for AA anymore is VERY generous, haha. But I agree with you, I fly STL-ORD quite often and usually use AA. The flights are v
52 Atrude777 : Pretty much a contract thing, AA only flies mainline between the hubs, and cannot go down to RJ service. Alex
53 Steex : My bet would be that there is that much feed of ex-STL traffic through the ORD hub, not that much feed through both hubs. AA still maintains a very s
54 MSYtristar : I flew on my first CR9 the other day, and I was surprised by a couple of things. Mind you the last time I was on a CR7 was in 2004 so I assume the ca
55 Cubsrule : I'd take an E70 over a mainline narrowbody any day. It's not like the pilots ever have Channel 9 on anymore, which is really the only thing that make
56 Goldenshield : I emplore to fly on Spirit, if that's the case. I'm sure you'll want to be on the CRJ. That's the choice of the airline, not the manufacturer. It wou
57 Cubsrule : To be honest, I prefer gate-checking to trying to find a spot for my roller bag on a full 737 or 320.
58 MSYtristar : Well, to each his own. To me, it saves me time since I rarely check bags due to the short duration of my trips. I like to get off the plane and leave
59 BMI727 : That is true. We all love to bitch and moan about the CR2, but we'd change our tune pretty fast after a ride on a Challenger.
60 Goldenshield : I'm not sure whose CR7's, and CR9's you've flown on, but the one's I've been on (in Coach, no less!) I've been able to fully stretch my legs, and als
61 ScottB : To sell itself off and trigger the golden parachutes for upper management. But that's colored by the company's limited investment in upkeep for the i
62 United1 : Doubtful in my opinion.... UA flies to around 75 destinations inside of the continental US including the 32 that you mentioned that see service 5 or
63 ScottB : But the service to all the airports which see fewer than five daily mainline departures amounts to fewer than 100 daily round-trips. With the remaini
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