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AA 777 Pilot Fails Breathalyser Test  
User currently offlineNEMA From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 717 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16665 times:

Just seen this on the BBC news.

Cant find anywhere on this forum, sorry if ive missed it.

Surprises me that this happens these days.


Here is the link..


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8061077.stm


There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
95 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNEMA From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 717 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16524 times:

A quote from the news item reads that...


''Police had been called by airport staff working at the security control post''


This makes me wonder if the pilot was just smelling of drink or actually acting like he had been drinking. If the former then it could be a difficult call and if the latter, what on earth was he thinking of.



There isnt really a dark side to the moon, as a matter of fact its all dark!
User currently offlineLewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3636 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16519 times:

Is it just me or are most of these stories we read happening in LON?

User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6324 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16105 times:



Quoting NEMA (Reply 1):
This makes me wonder if the pilot was just smelling of drink or actually acting like he had been drinking

Well, he failed a breathalyser...so it's a moot point if he was smelling or acting drunk (or both), the fact is he was caught over the limit.

Quoting Lewis (Reply 2):
Is it just me or are most of these stories we read happening in LON?

What can I say, it's my favorite city for a reason  Wink


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9109 posts, RR: 75
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15918 times:

The last time this happened in the UK, the security guard thought they smelt alcohol, called the police, and the the pilot failed a preliminary police breath test.

When the pilot was taken to the station for the actual test, the test showed zero, and a blood test also confirmed a reading of zero.

Turns out the preliminary breath test equipment has a false positive rate of up around 10%, and what the security guard though was the smell of alcohol ended up being the smell of cherry chewing gum.

Needless to say, the police did not proceed, the company reinstated the pilot immediately, none of that appears in the papers.

Need look past the headlines today to see if any substance to this event exists.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineDescendVia From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15885 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 4):

And I thought the TSA was bad.


User currently offlineMaddog888 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2007, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 15776 times:



Quoting Zeke (Reply 4):

Whilst I can appreciate the distress of the pilot especially the part where the vindication never ever reaches the press, as a passenger I have to say I am very happy the security guards/ police act on the side of caution.

J


User currently offlineFxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7298 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 15605 times:
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Quoting SW733 (Reply 3):
Well, he failed a breathalyser...so it's a moot point if he was smelling or acting drunk (or both), the fact is he was caught over the limit.

Exactly. The uninformed media jumps all over these types of stories and reports incomplete information. It could have been mouth wash for goodness sake. Pilot in question was still in London when the article was published.


User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2614 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14915 times:



Quoting Maddog888 (Reply 6):
Whilst I can appreciate the distress of the pilot especially the part where the vindication never ever reaches the press, as a passenger I have to say I am very happy the security guards/ police act on the side of caution.

False alarms won't help anyone. Since this is the third occurrence in short time that we discuss here a false positive breathalyzer test, I'd say the authorities at LHR should look for new instrumentation and/or review their SOP's.


User currently offlineOldtimer From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 191 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14826 times:



Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 8):
False alarms won't help anyone. Since this is the third occurrence in short time that we discuss here a false positive breathalyzer test, I'd say the authorities at LHR should look for new instrumentation and/or review their SOP's.

This particular topic has not yet proved to be false, only one , if I remember correctly, has been proved to be false. I agree with Maddog888, I would rather people err on the side of caution when it comes to drinking before flying.



Oldtimer, I should have known better!
User currently offlineShankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1543 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14797 times:



Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 8):
I'd say the authorities at LHR should look for new instrumentation and/or review their SOP's

I'd say provided the pilot has obeyed the relevant international aviation and licensing laws he has nothing to fear from a false reading, bar of course the initial inconvenience of being pulled up.



L1011 - P F M
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9109 posts, RR: 75
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14643 times:



Quoting Oldtimer (Reply 9):
This particular topic has not yet proved to be false, only one , if I remember correctly, has been proved to be false.

In recent times I think I remember a Virgin Atlantic pilot in MAN (?) and an Air Canada pilot in LHR both were later found to be false positives. The VA pilot from memory was on a Atkins diet, and the AC pilot had the gum, both produced a false positive preliminary test.

Also the preliminary breath test, s just that, a preliminary test. If one is arrested, it is classified as "under the suspicion", the actual test is conducted either the police station where the have a large calibrated machine, and/or a blood test, the rest of that test will determine if actual charges are laid.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineBjcc From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 327 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 14645 times:

Zeke

If by the 'last one' at heathrow, you mean the air canada pilot, then the real story is that the Police were called after a member of airport staff thought he smelt drink.

Police arrived, and as with all allagations like this, investigate it, if they are satisfied there is reasonable suspcion of drink being involved, then they breath test.

Note they, Police, not the member of airport staff are satisfied.

He failed the breath test, ie it indicated he was over a prescibed limit. He was therefore arrested, in order to facilitate further investigation.

At the Police station, he had a blood sample taken, and was released on bail pending the result of that blood sample being analysed. This is standard for those arrested under this act, but not for drivers. He would not know the result of that sample at the point he was bailed, as it is sent off to be analyised at a lab.

He may well know by now as the results usually come back within 3 weeks, and often within 2. If it was negative, he would not be required to return to the Police station.

He remains as far as I am aware on bail, and due to return to Heathrow Police Station in June.

It was suggested by some on here and elsewhere that he had a later blood test, and that was negative. Possibly that is true, but a later test is irrelevent. The blood test taken at the Police station is that which is used as evidence. As with all those who have a blood sample taken in these circumstances he would have been offered part of it to be analysed, that would, as I recall have to be done by an authorised lab. It could be that sample was duly analysed, and found to be under the limit.

There is no 10% 'false positive' rate on breath test machines, it is a wives tale, like many others surrounding breath tests for both aviation and road traffic law.

This theory of false positives probaly comes from the fact that a second test, be it blood or breath is required under UK law. That can only be taken at a Police station, in the case of blood by a doctor. The avarage time for a Doctor to arrive at heathrow Police station, when I was stationed there was an hour. Factor in 30 minutes travel time and booking in, and anyone close to the limit for pilots will be if not zero then very close to it by the time blood is taken. That does not make the initial test a false positive.

So far as I am aware many people have tried to dispute the results of breath tests, and so far universally failed.


User currently offlineWildcatYXU From Canada, joined May 2006, 2614 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 14355 times:



Quoting Shankly (Reply 10):
I'd say provided the pilot has obeyed the relevant international aviation and licensing laws he has nothing to fear from a false reading, bar of course the initial inconvenience of being pulled up.

So being arrested, dragged to the police station and lose the pay for the flight you were supposed to fly is perfectly OK for you? Not for me, my friend, not for me...

Quoting Bjcc (Reply 12):
So far as I am aware many people have tried to dispute the results of breath tests, and so far universally failed.

That's not a problem of the instrument's accuracy or inaccuracy, it's simply a question of law. Here, in Ontario, one is not even entitled to a blood test. Shame on us.


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9109 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13963 times:



Quoting Bjcc (Reply 12):
He remains as far as I am aware on bail, and due to return to Heathrow Police Station in June.

June 12 was the bail date, assuming the blood test was positive, that I was of the understanding was negative.

Quoting Bjcc (Reply 12):

There is no 10% 'false positive' rate on breath test machines, it is a wives tale, like many others surrounding breath tests for both aviation and road traffic law.

Ketoacidosis (elevated ketone levels either from diet or candy) and asthma inhalers are known to give false positives on electrochemical instrument used for preliminary breath screening, and as far as I am aware this has been established with scientific research. This one of the reasons why I understand the electrochemical preliminary breath screening is always backed up with a evidential breath test or a blood test.

The hand held machine is not normally called a "breath test", it is normally called "preliminary breath screening". The larger "breath test" machines as you said do not have a high false positive rate, the reason being is they normally are light based, e..g dual wavelength infrared, rather than a electrochemical device which may no be able to tell the difference between ethanol, acetone, and isopropanol.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offline747438 From UK - England, joined Jan 2007, 838 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 13846 times:



Quoting DescendVia (Reply 5):
Quoting Zeke (Reply 4):


And I thought the TSA was bad.

So you don't think the safety of the passengers and crew is important ?


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23027 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 13512 times:



Quoting 747438 (Reply 15):
So you don't think the safety of the passengers and crew is important ?

Given the rate at which London airports seem to give pilots a hard time as compared to other European hubs, I'm not sure that they're really doing anything to enhance safety.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineJambrain From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2008, 251 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 5 days ago) and read 13138 times:



Quoting Bjcc (Reply 12):
This theory of false positives probaly comes from the fact that a second test, be it blood or breath is required under UK law. That can only be taken at a Police station, in the case of blood by a doctor.

not for long
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...nk-driving-blood-test-breathalyser

Quote:

The government is abolishing the right of drivers who fail a breathalyser test to demand a blood test.




Jambrain
User currently offlineBjcc From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 327 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11876 times:

Zeke

Sorry, not much of what you say is correct.

Challanges to Evidenial breath tests using the reasons you have given have been tried many times, and dismissed after expert medical evidence. In fact, please feel free to visit the British Diabetics Association's web site, it will tell you exactly that.

Just so you are aware, both a breath test machine, and an evidential machine flash warnings if any of the chemicals you mention are present.

The original breath test machines, did not do so, and there was a suspicion, never proven that they may have been affected by ketomine (excuse spelling). I suspect your information may date back a few years.

As for inhailers, if you've used one, say so, in the UK, you then get a 20 minute wait until the breath test is given. The same applies to mouthwash, although I was part of a test on that, and 2 minutes after taking it, there was no trace on the breath test machine.

The fact remains that what you call false positives are not the issue that you claim they are. and a later blood reading being lower than the limit can usually be explained by the period of time between the 2 tests, during which unless you have recently drunk alcohol, your body will be dumping it from your blood.

What you call the screening breath test, and what I, as someone who used them often, call a breath test is equally accurate, which is why they are used in many countrys as the evidence to convict. I think you will find similar challanges to accuracy have been just as unsuccessful there too.

As for the result in the AC case, I don't know where you heard that the blood test was negative, perhaps you can enlighten everyone?

Jambrain

Firstly,thank you for providing that link, it explains exactly why a breath test is failed and a blood test passed.

Zeke, for you benefit, this explains it far better than I did.

"The government is abolishing the right of drivers who fail a breathalyser test to demand a blood test.

The Department for Transport claims that some drivers escape conviction because by the time a doctor is found to supervise a blood test, the driver's blood-alcohol level has fallen back within the legal limit."

Ok now thats explained, lets deal with blood tests.

It was never a right to demand, it was something offered if an evidential breath test was close to the limit. It had to be offered, so there was never a need to demand. I would take issue with the words of the lawyers, I have never seen, nor had, nor heard of any challange to the way a Breath test was conducted. I don't doubt there are some, and sometimes they may well be correctly challanged.

The article also does not mention that a blood result often came back higher than a breath result, because a Breath Test machine is calibrated to round down. I doubt it will make any difference in reality, but I would think it is being done to save money.


User currently offlineShankly From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 1543 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11534 times:



Quoting WildcatYXU (Reply 13):
So being arrested, dragged to the police station and lose the pay for the flight you were supposed to fly is perfectly OK for you? Not for me, my friend, not for me...

He will not have been "dragged" to the police station. Just cautioned under arrest and asked to co-operate, which it looks like he sensibly did. If he's innocent, he will not loose a day's pay (I think you'll find airline pilots are salaried). The incoveniece to the flight was a delay of 1hr.

Last time I flew transatlantic the plane was delayed 1hr due to an unaccompanied bag...probably entirely innocent, but as I was sitting in a 747 with my 3 year old son I was glad they unloaded it and I haven't missed that hour. Lets see what the outcome is.



L1011 - P F M
User currently offlineBjcc From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 327 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 11392 times:

Wildcat

The point Shankly makes is very valid, unless he wants to fight about it, which I doubt was the case, there would be no dragging involved. I presume you didn't mean it litteraly, but people have an annoying habbit of believing throw away comments like that as fact.

A dispute in a court over the possible effects of chemicals in breath is both a legal and techinical issue. In the UK it is for the Magistrate or Jury to judge who is correct. Personally, I am a firm believer in the accuracy of Breath Tests, but that is by vertue of having used them a fair bit.

Blood is only an initial option in very limited medical circumstances as far as drivers are concerned, as far as aviation, it is the option which Police have agreed with the CAA they will use. In the main that works very much to the advantage of the arrested person, and weeds out those who are close to the limit. So don't feel too bad about Canada not offering the option, it really is only in limited circumstances we do.


User currently offlineCaspian27 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 11043 times:



Quoting Shankly (Reply 19):
If he's innocent, he will not loose a day's pay (I think you'll find airline pilots are salaried)

American pilots are paid by the flight hour. So he will "lose" his pay unless he is below his pay guarantee.



Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
User currently offlineLTBEWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13116 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 10938 times:

Let us hope there is a through investigation to deterine if he can be charged or not. If he knows he was not dead sober per the rules, then he may choose to resign or go into rehab. I assume that AA allows at least one chance for institutional rehab for pilots with alcohol problems that their health care program will pay at least in part for but may not pay salary/pay during it. I am quite sure AA doesn't not want to have their investmet in this pilot lost.
Meanwhile it is still better to err on the side of him being under the influence that if he were to continue to have flown.


User currently offlineNomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 10747 times:

On the other side of the lake, there were problems 20 years ago with false positives from liquid alcohol from breath fresheners and acetone from diabetics and things like that, but the breathalyzers in use almost everyplace since the 90s aren't subject to those. The reading fails and you regive the test or take em in for a blood test.
Any meter with 10% false positives would have to be ancient or improperly maintained.



Andy Goetsch
User currently offlineFxramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7298 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9974 times:
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Captain Joe drank too much. Looks like his career will be grounded.  no 

Should have sick called.  yes 


25 TTailSteve : was an Eastern Airlines Capt in 1989/90 ish in Tampa...security called police b/c the pilot smelled...rather reeked of alcohol.....breath test showed
26 Bjcc : TTailsteve Firstly as you say, Wiki isn't 100% accurate, it being writen by anyone. If that were correct, do you not think that it would be used as a
27 YWG : I'm sure he'll show up..........
28 Post contains links Zeke : You have missed the subtle points. As far as I am aware the hand held machine is not an "evidential breath test", these "evidential breath test" mach
29 AirNZ : Review their SOP's in what way? Are you suggesting United Kingdom law be changed? Superb post, and a shining example to the many who are very quick a
30 Babybus : Neither is a captain or pilot who turns up drunk to fly 300 people over a vast amount of water with just two engines.
31 PhilSquares : Isn't there a presumption of innocent until proven guilty?
32 Shankly : . Thank you Caspian but I think the issue is perhaps lost in translation of American English. Your pay guarantee = my baseline salary, so he is very,
33 Standby87 : The days of Air France (and others) serving a miniature bottle of wine to their Cockpit crew with their meal are long gone... True!
34 Bjcc : Zeke No, I have not missed any point. Thank you for your long and overcomplicated explanation od something I spent 19 years doing. Leaving aside the t
35 Cubsrule : Perhaps-- it depends on whether the people that they are pulling aside wind up getting convicted. While I love London (and know that there are plenty
36 Fxramper : Captain Joseph Crites, 57, was allegedly four times the limit when he was held trying to enter the cockpit of his 777. A June, 1978 hire, this guy is
37 Bjcc : Cubsrule Firstly can we clear up the words being used. You use the word 'drunk'. If the post under yours is correct, 4 times the limit, then that equa
38 Cubsrule : Sure... "drunk" was simply intended to colloquially mean "over the limit" (in the States, people often call 0.08 "drunk" even though plenty of people
39 Post contains links Zeke : A paper that goes into this in great detail http://repository.tamu.edu/handle/1969.1/1159, I would draw your attention to page 76 of that report unde
40 Post contains links Zeke : Sorry that link should be http://repository.tamu.edu/handle/1969.1/1159 without the comma at the end.
41 413x3 : I am really surprised at this total outrage and guilty until proven innocent about a pilot possibly flying while over the legal limit... and yet where
42 Post contains links MarkBoston : There is a report on another web site that Captain Joseph Crites had 12 DUIs (for driving, not flying). Here is a link: http://www.airlinepilotforums.
43 PhilSquares : Two very different situations. Pilot's don't get a criminal conviction for flying fatigued. While the FARs mandate sufficient rest is required, I kno
44 Bjcc : Zeke Thanks for the link, which starts... "Eight small-scale breath alcohol measurement devices were tested for accuracy, precision and the ability to
45 RussianJet : So am I. Also, why is there such a rush to defend the guy and criticise those responsible for enforcing the rules when we all know that pilots have b
46 IAirAllie : That is not exactly true given how quick the media is to jump on the accusation bandwagon. Once the toothpaste is squeezed out of the tube it is impo
47 RussianJet : If he is proven to be innocent then that is unfortunate, and there should be some kind of recourse for him. However, if he is proven to be guilty the
48 IAirAllie : To be clear I wasn't making a judgement statement I was just stating that a pilot would indeed loose a days pay.
49 PhilSquares : Why? The basic concept of the law in the UK is a person is innocent until proven guilty. That is not done with the breathalyzer that was used at LHR
50 Bjcc : IAirAllie Yes, he is currently innocent, and will remain so whatever the result of the blood test, and until any case is heard in court and a decision
51 RussianJet : Because whilst he is indeed innocent until proven guilty, those investigating and enforcing the law have an extremely necessary, resonsible and impor
52 Eksath : THIS IS INCORRECT INFORMATION. The two middle names DO NOT match up. They are NOT the same person. Please see rest of the airlinepilotforum thread fo
53 AirNZ : No, that is not what people are doing at all and, as I've stated earlier, no-one has stated he is guilty.......rather it is the rush (as explained we
54 PhilSquares : But, that's not what I had said in any of my posts. I have not mentioned one word about anyone who is enforcing a law. Perhaps you need to read the f
55 Ikramerica : That's also nonsense. The computer analyzing the BAC could easily be programmed to take into account the time of the blood sample v. the time of init
56 RussianJet : I have quite clearly not said that he is guilty, or even implied it. I said it is a possibility. Indeed, I have stated in another post that I hope he
57 PhilSquares : You are mis-reading my post. It was not directed at you but to AirNZ and what his post stated. The quoted part of your post was an example of what he
58 IAirAllie : Do you work in the Airline industry? Sure he can quit. The guy was hired 30 years ago in the 1978. He can give up 30 years of pay and benefits to sta
59 Post contains links Zeke : No, it could have been higher or lower. The machine also doing the test does not generally know the difference in mass, age, sex, lung volume, insuli
60 Bjcc : IAirAllie I thought it would have been clear that I don't, but was a Policeman at LHR. As I said, pay is a matter between him, and his employers. If h
61 AirNZ : I don't need to re-write anything I wrote in the slightest, but would certainly suggest yourself re-read. In not one of the 'examples' you quote does
62 PhilSquares : Yes I do dispute that he is over the legal limit. I say that because a blood test is the only conclusive test. The one administered at the airport is
63 Bjcc : PhilSquares No, a blood test isn't the only conclusive test. The legislation allows for the test to be Breath, blood or urine. All 3 are conclusive. H
64 PhilSquares : If you read my post it was specifically addressing the agreement with the CAA and the Met Police. In addition, there is the issue of past practice, i
65 LTBEWR : Beacuse a flying (and land vehicle license) is a govenment regulated privilege, not a right, you agree with the licensing jurisdiction that if one fai
66 MillwallSean : Hmm Miss Allie; Do you assume that every country works according to the same system as the US does? As a pilot with many years experience he has plen
67 IAirAllie : No of course not...however we are discussing an American pilot for an American carrier here and what quitting an airline job in the US would mean for
68 Bjcc : IAirAllie I think you're having some difficlty with reading and understanding. I didn't say quiting over a pay issue was a big or small deal, it is a
69 Babybus : Until someone is proven innocent or guilty we can think whatever we like. The law presumes innocence until proven guilty. I'm not a lawyer just a mem
70 PhilSquares : Well since you find my interpretation so intersting, I will try to enlighten you a littel bit. From my perspective, the inference is if one pilot is g
71 David L : I'm going to have to side with Bjcc on the issue of presuming guilt. I don't mean to pick on you, PhilSquares, but you have summarised the main points
72 PhilSquares : Didn't write that or imply that. My position is if you are going to err, err on the side of safety. And just as you write, he is definitely not guilt
73 Bjcc : PhilSquare I'm afraid we will have to differ on interpretation of the points made, and I see none of them as an implication, or direct allagation of g
74 RussianJet : If someone in security smelt drink on the breath of someone they knew was going to fly a plane then why on earth would they not do something about it
75 PhilSquares : And please don't say you work in law enforcement! Care to elaborate on your question. The logic, or lack thereof has escaped me! I assume you mean la
76 RussianJet : Allow me - it was quite obvious. It was a reference to the fact that you seemed to imply that it was not the business of security staff to report the
77 PhilSquares : Again, never wrote that, never implied that. Please show me where anyone could make that inference. My issue is with the lack of consistency the scre
78 RussianJet : I guess that would be here:
79 PhilSquares : Their primary job is security screening. Every minute that is diverted from that is one less eye on security. But, that does not imply they are to tu
80 RussianJet : Oh come on. They don't just sit at a screen watching bags go by. They check passes, talk to people, verify credentials, search PEOPLE! It would hardl
81 PhilSquares : Again, you are putting an interpretation in here that I have specifically said wasn't there. I know of people who have gone through security with pro
82 RussianJet : Again, when an integral part of that process involves talking to those passing through checkpoints and often performing searches up close and persona
83 Par13del : This thread has been around for a while, so I'll ask this question, how serious a problem is alcohol in the aviations industry, what number of inciden
84 Bjcc : PhilSquares You seem incapable of recalling your own words. You brought up the subject of the BAA being watchdogs of safety. Is it not everyones conce
85 RussianJet : Please explain how, in that case, there have been cases where pilots have been caught going to fly and convicted in courts of law. Rare though it may
86 PhilSquares : While your comments are specifically directed at me, my comments were directed to the approach in general not to the specific poster. However, even i
87 IAirAllie : I know, I KNOW, I never suggested it did in any way. FOR THE UMPTEENTH TIME... I was responding directly to a specific piece of missinformation. I wa
88 DLDTW1962 : As a passenger and a Travel Agent. I would rather they error on the caution side. I would not want myself, family members or my clients flying when a
89 Par13del : Same reason why prohibited items get past screeners, either someone does not do their job properly or the offender takes extreme measures to avoid de
90 IAirAllie : So would I however the accusations should not be made lightly and I think the media should hang on to make sure it sticks before the public condemnat
91 RussianJet : So what was the point of saying it can't happen when we know it has done before?
92 Par13del : Adding to the convo that was taking place about whether it was screeners responsibility to police crew, who policed the screeners etc. etc. it was no
93 HAWK21M : Professionals handling important jobs should know their responsibilities well. regds MEL.
94 David L : And I didn't say you did write or imply that but you did cite Russian Jet's comment as being a presumption of guilt. All I'm saying is that it wasn't
95 Scbriml : OK, this thread has run its course and is in danger of degenerating in to a personal battle. It seems people cannot discuss a topic without resorting
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