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Official. RAH E190's To Operate For YX..expansion?  
User currently offlineN917me From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 730 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 10556 times:

Tim is hinting of expansion, new routes and the return of W Coast Nonstops.

To: All Midwest and Skyway Employees
Date: May 21, 2009
From: T.E. Hoeksema
Subject: New Addition to Our Fleet

I am very pleased to share the news that we are expanding our air services
agreement with Republic Airlines to include the addition of two new Embraer
190AR jets. The E190s will be configured to seat 100 passengers in a single
cabin with seating choice that includes 20 Signature seats. We will
introduce the new service in August and September, and announce new routes
and schedules in the near future.

The addition of the E190s to our current fleet will provide us new
flexibility in terms of our route network and range, with the potential to
once again fly nonstop to the West Coast from our Milwaukee hub. Our
expanded agreement with Republic allows us to leverage the cost
efficiencies of a large regional airline, while providing our customers
with service to more destinations.

With the start of service, Republic Airways will become the first regional
airline operator to fly the E190s, which combine a big jet feel and
impressive performance with economically and environmentally friendly
operating efficiencies. The jets offer outstanding onboard comfort and I'm
confident they will be an excellent addition to our fleet, and a valuable
asset in supporting the expansion of the Midwest brand to new routes.

The aircraft are a component of a comprehensive fleet plan that we are in
the process of finalizing and will announce in the near future.

We hope to have an E190 available for employee tours sometime this summer.
We'll also let you know just as soon as the new routes are announced.

Click here to see what the E190 looks like.
http://www.embraercommercialjets.com/english/content/ejets/emb_190.asp

127 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCaspian27 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 10457 times:

This is NOT good news. Especially for the Midex pilots.


Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
User currently offlineLrdc9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 610 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 10426 times:

It's more than "big jet feel". It is a big jet and the pay scale show show as much.


Just say NO to scabs.
User currently offlineMke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10398 times:



Quoting N917me (Thread starter):
The aircraft are a component of a comprehensive fleet plan that we are in the process of finalizing and will announce in the near future.

Unless they get more than two, I think the only thing we'll see is MKE n/s to the west coast. However, the quote above leads you to believe that more E190s will eventually replace the 717s as orginally thought. I've posted this question in the other thread, but if YX restarts MKE-LAX, does this mean NW will end their service on the route?



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9661 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10394 times:

That should pretty much kill the 717s. Same range, same capacity, lower costs since it is Republic. The E190 can operate nonstop to the west coast.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineLexy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2515 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10387 times:

I just find it hard to believe, even though it is true, that a regional airline will be flying what is mostly considered to be a mainline jet. This has got to have some issues somewhere along the line.


Nashville, Tennessee KBNA
User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10369 times:

So then Midwest will then be a pseudo airline. Once the last 717 is gone, their entire route system will then be operated by other contracted airlines.

Exactly who was this big "exciting" announcement of theirs geared toward? The last of their own employees - who will now be out of jobs?

This airline's just gotta be put out of it's misery at this point. Sad to see what they've become.


User currently offlineMKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1143 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10366 times:



Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 3):
but if YX restarts MKE-LAX, does this mean NW will end their service on the route?

I would think so. That would be 4x n/s from 3 airlines, maybe 4 if WN wants in, but I doubt it right now. NW is basically operating the route for YX, and frankly I don't know how well the flights do. I have heard mixed reviews, and the fact that they suspended the service for a month in January isn't a good sign. Who knows, maybe YX will have NW keep flying it for them and fight their battles elsewhere, such as SEA and SFO. But I wouldn't be shocked if NW didn't pull it, as YX used to have 2x MD-80s on the route..



If Your not pissed, your not trying
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 8, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10322 times:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4406730/

Kinda old news...........



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineCaspian27 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 382 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10324 times:

Remember the "Save the Cookie" campaign? What was the point...

At least the pilots would have kept their jobs at Airtran. So now we still have the "cookie." But But all the people we saved it for are now out of jobs...



Meanwhile, somewhere 35,000 ft above your head...
User currently offlineAWACSooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1919 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10313 times:

This is gonna prove to be too little too late for YX. A few months after WN moves in, it's gonna be game over.

User currently offlineMKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1143 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10306 times:



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 8):
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4406730/

Kinda old news...........

At that time it was just a rumor.. Now N917ME is just confirming things..



If Your not pissed, your not trying
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10271 times:



Quoting MKE22 (Reply 11):
At that time it was just a rumor..

I would not call it a rumor when it was shown in that thread that the aircraft had been registered under RP tail numbers....



"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineMke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10273 times:



Quoting N917me (Thread starter):
The E190s will be configured to seat 100 passengers in a single
cabin with seating choice that includes 20 Signature seats.

Do the E170s have the YX brown leather seats in them? It doesn't seem to make sense to have RAH fly both the E170 and E190 while only putting the seats in the 190s.



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineMKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1143 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10251 times:



Quoting EMBQA (Reply 12):
I would not call it a rumor when it was shown in that thread that the aircraft had been registered under RP tail numbers....

Well I mean the fact that they would go to YX. I heard they could have gone to Hawaiian airline Moleukeke Airlines (if thats how you spell it).

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 13):
Do the E170s have the YX brown leather seats in them? It doesn't seem to make sense to have RAH fly both the E170 and E190 while only putting the seats in the 190s.

Not right now, they are just RP seats right now
Big version: Width: 500 Height: 333 File size: 78kb



If Your not pissed, your not trying
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4281 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10235 times:

I have been reading pilot reaction at other carriers, and let me say, even at the regional level, pilots are not happy about this development at all. I am seeing a lot of ALPA members at the regional level who now consider the Republic pilot group to be SCABS. The feeling I get is that this development is going to ruin a profession that was already pretty close to it.

My one hope is that the regional agreements with Mainline companies is seriously looked at by congress during the hearings on Colgan. These are coming under some scrutiny right now. I doubt anything will happen though.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25520 posts, RR: 50
Reply 16, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10220 times:



Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 1):
This is NOT good news. Especially for the Midex pilots.

YX pilots had the opportunity to play ball and come up with competitive rates to fly E170s.

Since they decided to stick to their guns, the company is free to pursue other options including such ACMI flying which was recently affirmed by an arbitrator.

The YX owners and management have a business to run, with or without the pilots.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1542 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10210 times:

I don't really understand this at all. Does YX not have a scope that would restrict farming out 100 seaters? This doesn't seem like it could happen at other airlines, so what is the difference here?


717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4281 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10176 times:

Other points I wanted to make on this. If republic does by out Midwest, they would be in a serious position to screw SkyWest over, because you basically have one regional carrier contracted by another. Republic would probably figure out a way to move 50 seat lift to Chautauqua.

Secondly, you have a regional carrier, Republic, operating a plane which is a mainline jet at plenty of other carriers (B6, US, and AC to name 3). This gives management at other carriers leverage to farm out the 190's, especially with contracts up at plenty of airlines (AA, UA to name two, plus the US merger isn't resolved yet). And one thing I have learned over the years in this industry. Once Pandora's box is opened, its very difficult to close. Think of where we would be today had Delta Pilots not allowed ComAir pilots to fly RJ's, and kept them at mainline? And look where we are now.


User currently offlineN917me From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 730 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10173 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
YX pilots had the opportunity to play ball and come up with competitive rates to fly E170s.

Since they decided to stick to their guns, the company is free to pursue other options including such ACMI flying which was recently affirmed by an arbitrator.

The YX owners and management have a business to run, with or without the pilots.

Someone sees the light!
As much as I love our YX mainline guys and gals, at the end of the day, YX is a business.

Lets quit dwelling on the past, be it management mistakes, the way YX used to be or the fact the MAG outsourced jobs. The future is NOW and we (YX'ers), pilots too, need to either shi* or get off the pot.


User currently offlineNorCal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10126 times:



Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
YX pilots had the opportunity to play ball and come up with competitive rates to fly E170s.

If by competitive rates you mean subpar rates to fly a mainline size aircraft then yes they didn't play ball. They didn't want to sell out to Walmart of the sky and I don't blame them. I hope ALPA is able to do something and stop RAH.


User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10124 times:

Quoting MKE22 (Reply 14):
Not right now, they are just RP seats right now

That photo is not an Embraer cabin of any type... They offer no 2-3 seating.....Shoot.. those are not even Embraer seats

[Edited 2009-05-21 17:33:48]


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineCitrus1 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10073 times:



Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 10):
A few months after WN moves in, it's gonna be game over.

Just like Denver and Philly were to be game over, Please.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25520 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10072 times:



Quoting NorCal (Reply 20):
If by competitive rates you mean subpar rates to fly a mainline size aircraft then yes they didn't play ball. They didn't want to sell out to Walmart of the sky and I don't blame them. I hope ALPA is able to do something and stop RAH.

Which is totally fine. ALPA had a decision to make and it did, and the company has a business to run and life goes on.

I don't see how Republic can end up being the heavy here. Its not like they are forcing themselves upon YX. They happen to have a product they sell which happens to be aircraft leasing and YX has turned to them as a solution for their business needs.
Are we gonna demonize Subway since they sell $5 sandwiches while the corner deli charges $9?



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25323 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (5 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10052 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting Caspian27 (Reply 1):
This is NOT good news. Especially for the Midex pilots.

It may not be good news for the Midwest pilots, but it is extremely good news for the airline.

The pilots must be aware of the bloodbath that is developing at MKE, and if Midwest is to survive, it must lower costs and increase revenue capability.

The E190 has a lower CASM than the E170 and has greater revenue capability. How is this not good news?

mariner



aeternum nauta
25 Jlbmedia : The Cookie was saved, the Airline is essentially gone.
26 TVNWZ : Then they can sit out the game on the sidelines and let others dictate the rules. Unless, and untill, the Midwest pilots get a grip on reality Republ
27 Jlbmedia : How dose the E190 CASM compare to that of the 717?
28 LAXintl : Well direct comparisions not quite possible as Republic does not operate the EMB190 yet, however here are some comparisons between YX 717 and industry
29 Mariner : Sorry, I've never compared them. The 717 is a bit before I became a CASM hawk, a few months ago. All I know is the comparison of the E170/E190. marin
30 Apodino : I can't believe that this thread is on an aviation site and that many posts show absolutely no respect to the piloting profession. Especially a week a
31 SuperDash : In a way it's just as surprising that Republic is willing to get into another fleet type and fly them for an airline that has a very shaky future ahea
32 Sideflare75 : It was not a "blatant lie" as you say. Midwest began work almost immediately on the certification process. Two pilots went to training at JetBlue I b
33 MKENut : The negotiations with the Pilot Union broke down and Midwest halted the process of bringing the 170 into their certificate. Midwest wants wage conces
34 Knope2001 : Flying 100 seat aircraft with 100 seats does wonders for the cost-per-seat-mile of an airline used to flying 115 seat aircraft with 88 seats (or more
35 NY-JFK-LGA : I think I remember MidAtlantic. That division of US Airways. I may be wrong, but I thought Republic hired a lot of those pilots from US Airways to fl
36 Cubsrule : I don't understand ALPA. First, they screwed over young pilots by effectively shutting the door to mainline jobs to them UNLESS they came through a r
37 OB1504 : Didn't Republic offer to buy MidAtlantic's assets from US and hire pilots that US would otherwise have furloughed? It was US that snatched the flying
38 Post contains links and images NWADC9 : In fact, it's this: View Large View MediumPhoto © Joseph K Wagner A Northwest DC-9-50 (you can see row 26 printed on the handlebar) Will service
39 Apodino : History Lesson. USAirways acquired the 170's for the express operation. Back when they first acquired them, ALPA had the Jets for Job's provision in
40 NY-JFK-LGA : J4J pilots from US mainline were offered positions to be employed by RW. (Until they were recalled by mainline I think). The pilots did fly the 170's
41 JBo : As I said in the other thread, I bet this becomes a bargaining chip to further negotiations between Midwest management and pilots. as LAXIntl pointed
42 Mke717spotter : Also, I'm guessing YX's late payments to RAH must not have been that big of a deal if they are still giving them more aircraft?
43 LAXintl : Here is a comparison of YX 717, Republic E170 and B6 & US E190 pilot rates. YX 717 Capt: Year 1- $82 Year 2- $89 Year 3- $94 Year 4- $99 Year 5- $104
44 NorCal : Easy for you to say, you aren't a midwest pilot losing a his/her job. RAH pilots are going to fly similar sized aircraft that the Midwest guys did fo
45 NorCal : Any way you slice it RAH is below the others........ The pay rates don't include equally important things like work rules. A place like Mesa doesn't
46 Mariner : It was my understanding that the original intention was to bring the E170's in-house. I don't think anyone would argue with that. But we were talking
47 N917me : OK.. I read so mamy post on here about how YX is done, should be closed, killed by Fl, etc.. Most stand behind the pilots and say that management is
48 Post contains images MKE22 : My fault, I clicked on the wrong pic. This is it.
49 Boeing727 : Not quite right...you should put in RW EMB175/190 pay... Republic EMB170 Capt: Year 1- $64 Year 2- $68 Year 3- $73 Year 4- $75 Year 5- $77 Year 6- $8
50 8146659 : I wonder how the duty rigs compare at each company? That is the most important part of a pilot contract. Good luck YX pilot group.....the race to the
51 Bahadir : we gt no rigs, but rigs is the #1 must have list in the next contract.(#2 is better f/o compensation) Remeber, as pilots we have no say in the new cod
52 NorCal : Only if they agreed to work for RAH wages...... From the MX pilot's and FA's perspective (and the other employees if RAH is taking over ground handli
53 Cubsrule : That doesn't make sense to me. YX could pay the pilots more than RAH pays and still make the same profit/loss on the flying because they don't have t
54 SPREE34 : ALPA can't do anything. Suspending service at Midwest won't make the point. ALPA needs to address this on a national scale. Pandora's box is wide ope
55 NorCal : That is true, the guys at RAH found out about this at exactly the same time that everyone else did. What Republic pilots do next will deterimine whet
56 Cubsrule : Make a list of all the reasons that OO is cheaper than UA. If you do that, I think you'll find that everything on that list is on there because workg
57 LAXintl : There we go. The crux of the issue. At the end of the day, I don't believe any airline really cares who operates the equipment if the net cost is abo
58 Luisca : Yes they did have scope, but the way the Railway Labor Act works (wich governs airline unions) It will take years for Midwest pilots to strike, IF Mi
59 Luisca : Yes they did have scope, but the way the Railway Labor Act works (wich governs airline unions) It will take years for Midwest pilots to strike, IF Mi
60 NorCal : A regional is a subcontractor, by definition a regional is cheaper than mainline. Why in the world would UA choose OO if they cost the same? If OO co
61 Cubsrule : Of course, you haven't addressed the more salient part of my point: Airlines have high fixed costs, so if everything else is equal, big airlines will
62 LAXintl : To me its not a race to the bottom. Last few decades have been great for the consumer. The choice in flights, routes, airlines, fares have spurred in
63 Toltommy : Whoa, hold on there..... This is nothing more than economic realities coming home to the pilot profession. Its all driven by economics today. Who can
64 Mariner : It was still the intention to bring them in-house. Ah - the bigger picture syndrome. Similar to the IBT taking a stand at Frontier over outsourcing -
65 Cubsrule : I like how you're thinking, but I don't think price is the right criterion. Rather, it's a question of value. Let me give an example... When I buy ma
66 Rjnut : Think: Captain Sully!!
67 Cubsrule : But RW has never had a fatal accident. RW has never had a passenger injury. The worst thing RW has in the NTSB database is a f/a fall during turbulen
68 Apodino : And the consumer also wants to get from point A to point B safely and expects the crews to be highly trained and well qualified. When you cut pay and
69 Cubsrule : Is that pay increase sustainable, or would demand for air travel fall so much that the system would no longer work?
70 Micstatic : I think the entire economy is in a bad place now. But let's not forget. RJ's have enabled many of Americans to get to places faster and economically
71 Flyinryan99 : Actually, it most likely wouldn't be the FAA preventing this. Most, if not all hour limitations are put on by the insurance industry. If insurance ca
72 EMBQA : Are you talking Republic Group...? or Republic Airlines....????
73 N917me : Experience and time on the job is not always a plus. I have seen new hires at airlines running circles around people working at airlines for 20 years
74 Apodino : I will concede that, but looking at it from both a Passenger and an Insurance point of view, i would see this as somewhat less risky than having a Re
75 IndyWA : Key word in Cubsrule statement there was "fatal"
76 CWAFlyer : SkyWest existed long before flying RJ's for United, and existed before starting business with United almost 12 years ago. You do realize that SkyWest
77 NorCal : It's been turned into greyhound bus and the industry is no longer profitable. That instability has led to cut in overall service and has pissed off t
78 EXAAUADL : SCABS are when you cross a picket line, no picket line is being crossed here MKE isnt DEN or PHL and YX isnt UA or US....geez LOL.......I was part of
79 Mariner : Who can undercut them? Anyone who tries must be prepared to lose their shirt. As of March, and partly because of the give-backs by Frontier staff, th
80 LAXintl : Sure why not if the economics work. Not just a ticket. I doubt you pay $5 extra for washing detergent, or a widget needlessly either. Maybe, maybe no
81 PlanesNTrains : It will happen IMHO. An entirely new system needs to be put in place. Until that time, we're going to continue to see the same ole same ole. If the f
82 Ikramerica : My hope is that the Government doesn't because they will simply take control of your airlines like they are doing with everything else. If I wanted t
83 Alias1024 : Or not being a captain after 5 years could be a result of stagnation and mismanagement at your airline. There are no 5 year captains at American Eagl
84 NorCal : It'll happen, someone else will say to their employee group, "Look how cheap Frontier is doing it for, you guys have to fly for cheaper or we are goi
85 PlanesNTrains : And they likely will. I think it's fine if the employee groups decide enough is enough. But exactly how do you - if you are airline X - magically sta
86 Mariner : None of that was the point to which I responded. You said: In at least one case, I disagree. mariner
87 NorCal : You are looking at the short term, which has been my point all along. Yes Frontier will be profitable for a short period of time, but over the long r
88 Mariner : No, sir, I am responding to the statement you made. You denied that something could happen and yet it has. What happens in the future is a variable t
89 Post contains links Mke717spotter : Found this article on Jsonline and thought I'd post it. http://www.jsonline.com/business/45879832.html Midwest lost record $477 million in 2008 Chapte
90 PlanesNTrains : Fair enough. -Dave
91 LAXintl : If and when that time comes, Frontier will cross that bridge. Frankly any company that is not constantly focused on cost management and garnering any
92 Cubsrule : RW, not RAH (although it's probably debatable which one is more relevant). I believe, though, that by any objective measure, RAH as a whole is safer
93 Post contains links LAXintl : Absolutely. DOT keeps such stats. I can only find it going back to 1990 however Employement at Certified US Air Carriers. Year End 1990 - Total 526,7
94 Ikramerica : Makes sense, as aircraft sizes have shrunk due to the use of 50 and now 75 seaters, which means more pilots per passenger (as you must always have 2
95 EMBQA : Well... you said no events... I can think of at least two serious....
96 Legacytravel : The 717's were going anyway. Maybe they just buy the YX certificate? As a person who used to be a union member. And yes I did lose my job to outsourc
97 NorCal : It does need to end and it's hard for people from the outside looking in to understand that. Passengers don't see the race to the bottom that has bee
98 N917me : And the other 1/2 were??? That perception will die off when some of the pilots of the work quit complaining about every little thing. Do you remember
99 NorCal : Not all from the SAME flight school. That is a terrible record considering how relatively few grads they put out compared to the military, 4 year fli
100 Cubsrule : As I said, my specific statements were about RW only, but I do think it's true that Republic Group is safer than YX by any objective standard. Obviou
101 LAXintl : I see no reason to regulate wages in the airline industry any more then ones on Main Street, other professionals such as lawyers, doctors, accountant
102 NorCal : Not yet, but the downward trend will cause more. Airlines have already cut to the bone, if the trend continues training and safety will be next as ai
103 Cubsrule : Agreed, but I was talking about pay, not work rules (although the two are related). Once more accidents happen, I think the public will re-assess its
104 NorCal : The ironic thing is that there are plenty of airlines abroad (SQ, EK, etc.) that pay their pilots and crews significantly more than US carriers and s
105 Legacytravel : I think it is worse actually. At Micky D's you get Mcstudy which gives you money for college. Do they airlines who pay $8.00 to load bags do that?? I
106 NorCal : It's said the FAR's are written in blood, but why should we allow it to get to that point? A little public education would go a long way to show the
107 Cubsrule : But what does that public education accomplish? If the pilot making $16,000 a year can safely deliver passengers to their destination, I'm not sure t
108 LAXintl : So in theory should supply/demand not eventualy right itself --- If the positions are coveted and valued by society? See the problem is wider then ju
109 Legacytravel : The suppy and demand should work in theory. However in the application where you need to the skills to keep people alive in case of an emergency you
110 Legacytravel : Can he really deliver the passengers safely? Sure if there are no in flight issues. What about in an emergency? Will they keep their heads or panic.
111 Cubsrule : Well, the evidence says yes. How many inexperienced regional pilots have successfully dealt with emergencies? I don't think the problem is so much wi
112 LAXintl : Here is a brave concept: Fixed salaries pretty much blind to the equipment flown, as done at some foreign carriers - A pilot is a pilot. In practice
113 JBo : Wasn't there a Beech 1900 crash because the cargo shifted into the aft-aft and it was too tail-heavy?
114 TVNWZ : I don't know. But, we do know the worst air disaster in history was caused by the highest paid, chief training pilot at KLM.
115 Cubsrule : Are you thinking of the ZV crash in CLT ~5 years ago? If so, the only reason the W&B problems became an issue was the misrigged elevator cables.
116 LAXintl : As I had mentioned prior, productivity by the like of SWA employees greatly blunts the effect of their direct wages. Here is a comparison of Labor po
117 146crew : Date: June 4, 2009 To: All RAH Flight Attendants Re: New MKE EMB 190 Base Republic Airways announces a new EMB 190 crew base will open August 1, 2009
118 Mrocktor : No, its a race to the market equilibrium and it will only stop when wages and prices reach the level that balances supply and demand (for the product
119 Pilotfox : Date: June 1, 2009 To: All RAH Flight Crews From: Re: New MKE EMB 190 Base Republic Airways announces a new EMB 190 crew base will open August 1, 2009
120 Cubsrule : I think you're reading a normative statement that I didn't make in to that statement (i.e. that workgroups SHOULD be able to prohibit such outsourcin
121 Mrocktor : I'm sorry if it seemed like a judgement of your opinion (which you did not, in fact, express). Please read my statement as a judgment of the fact tha
122 TVNWZ : The worst accident in aviation history was arguably caused by the highest paid training pilot at KLM.
123 Bahadir : Hey Pilotfox, nice job posting an internal memo on a public website..
124 Sideflare75 : I'm not saying it's right but people do that on here all the time. Did you read the original post of this thread???? Also an internal memo to employe
125 Post contains links Racers22 : Chautauqua will now replace Skywest after Republic injected another $6 million into Midwest. http://www.jsonline.com/business/47238192.html
126 Cubsrule : No worries-- just wanted to be clear that I wasn't expressing an opinion on the other point.
127 Pilotfox : Well it was posted publicly on another aviation forum, I'm just repeating what someone else had posted. If you want to be picky next time I'll cite t
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