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BA Announce £401m Loss For 2008  
User currently offlineSeansasLCY From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2007, 903 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8311 times:

BA have announced worse than expected losses of £401m for the past year.

Willie Walsh said he saw no signs of recovery anywhere.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8062844.stm

90 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2495 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8251 times:

Ouch. Here's to a better 2009.  champagne 


oh boy!!!
User currently offlineSpeedbird2155 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 879 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8199 times:



Quoting SeansasLCY (Thread starter):
BA have announced worse than expected losses of £401m for the past year

The figure quoted is the pre-tax loss. Operating loss was £220 which was in line with the company's predictions over the past few months.


User currently offlineNcelhr From Vatican City, joined Jul 2006, 359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8149 times:

Doesn't surprise me. On the many occasions I've flown BA recently, their load factor was not good. On some routes, their flights were a lot more expensive than any competition - and when I flew the competition the flights had a much better load factor.

In those days of recession, it's all a matter of price, really.


User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8115 times:



Quoting Ncelhr (Reply 3):
In those days of recession, it's all a matter of price, really.

Isn't it really about perceived value for money?

When I travel with a national carrier I expect a far higher level of service than travelling with an LCC.

We shouldn't expect BA to go down the LCC road but maybe cut back on capacity in an effort to fill available aircraft and increase or maintain yield.

Standards of service have to be kept.


User currently offlineNcelhr From Vatican City, joined Jul 2006, 359 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8067 times:



Quoting Babybus (Reply 4):
When I travel with a national carrier I expect a far higher level of service than travelling with an LCC.

And that's where it hurts. Some legacy carriers price themselves to LCC level. Some don't.

That said, I expect most legacy carriers to lose money at the moment. The question is really one of cash reserves to sustain any extended downturn.


User currently offlineFCA767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 1786 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8059 times:

When they Say Loss...Do they mean for Example: Last Year = £30 Million Profit but This year only £20 Million Profit so loss of say £10 Million...but they are still making money in the grand scheme of things? that's where I always get lost in Newspaper articles

User currently offlineFlybehubby From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2008, 177 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8037 times:

Just my 2ps worth.

Quoting SeansasLCY (Thread starter):
Willie Walsh

Im not a BA fan by any means but Willie needs to go! He successfully messed up Aer Lingus, now he's having a good go of BA. Get someone who can restructure BA to the profitable, world class airline it should be!

Quoting FCA767 (Reply 6):
When they Say Loss...Do they mean for Example: Last Year = £30 Million Profit but This year only £20 Million Profit so loss of say £10 Million...but they are still making money in the grand scheme of things? that's where I always get lost in Newspaper articles

No, thats not a loss. Its just reduced profits. BA have actually made a loss (ie less revenue coming in than going out) in the last year.



Helping to turn Europe orange.
User currently offlineSketty222 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1778 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8016 times:



Quoting Speedbird2155 (Reply 2):
The figure quoted is the pre-tax loss. Operating loss was £220 which was in line with the company's predictions over the past few months.

BA had expected an operating loss of approx £150m. The operating loss has come in at £220m but this includes the approx £80m in redundancy payments



There's flying and then there's flying
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4409 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7997 times:

So IB just can wait until they get the majority in the merger.

User currently offlineHotelmode From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 460 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7912 times:

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 9):
So IB just can wait until they get the majority in the merger

Iberia's value against BA has been dropping for the last few months. Its back at 60/40 in BAs favour.

IB probably have further to fall with the state of the economy and loss of the aviation monopoly on domestic travel with the huge high speed rail network under construction in Spain. A quick glance a fleet sizes ought to show where the real value is. Although total fleet size is similar IBs long haul operation is 30 aircraft against 115 ish at BA. Also 50% of IBs short haul fleet are RJs or ATRs against 0 in BA. (Click, GSS and Cityflyer excluded)

[Edited 2009-05-22 02:31:44]

User currently offlineR2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2776 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7913 times:

IB should start moving in for the kill.

User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4071 posts, RR: 33
Reply 12, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7877 times:

In the staement
8 B744 will be parked for the winter.
and 8 B757 will be withdrawn from service before they go for cargo conversion next year.
They will reduce frequency on multi frequency routes.


User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1344 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7877 times:



Quoting R2rho (Reply 11):
IB should start moving in for the kill.

It's more the overall value of the companies, rather than profit/loss, which drives who will have the upper hand in any merger.

The BBC have said that BA intend to park 16 a/c (4% of capacity) over the winter months. The already have parked 2 (?) 747's, would the rest to be parked all be long-haul a/c do people think? Which routes will they cut/ scale back as a response?


User currently offlineTimboflier215 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 1344 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7865 times:

Ah, ignore that last question! I see the ever reliable TristarSteve got there before me!!!

User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7793 times:



Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 12):
In the staement
8 B744 will be parked for the winter.
and 8 B757 will be withdrawn from service before they go for cargo conversion next year.
They will reduce frequency on multi frequency routes.

Well this summer BA has reduced a lot of services. BRU is only served 5 times a day down from 8. Will the services be further cut...

My idea is that BA should trransfer some LGW routes/flights to LHR. That will enhance revenus with transfer pax and more destinations out of LHR.

BA could move TUN, GIB, JER, TIA, PRN and BOD to LHR and see what happens. If yields go up, they might leave those services at LHR. It is the perfect time to try out things...



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7754 times:



Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 15):

BA could move TUN, GIB, JER, TIA, PRN and BOD to LHR and see what happens.

and are there slots available at LHR for this?

Really looking forward to the aircraft changes, A319s at LGW, new EMBs at LCY, A380 and B787 at LHR.


User currently offlineParapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1664 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7719 times:

Just come back from Canada -Air Canada. Like so many business people -downgraded to economy. Economy was full both ways -Their upper class product was almost empty. I am certain that many business people were in that economy cabin with me. Could have flown BA it was not about price but schedules. But I bet their economy cabin was full too.I note that they are heavily discounting their business class now.Its just very,very tough out there.Over half BA's profit comes from premium.

Having said that Ryanair have also stated that they too are making a loss. Thats the best of premium and the best of budget airlines making a loss. There is going to be a river of corporate blood on the floor soon. It will be survival of the fittest now.

As for the parked aircraft. Yes I can believe it. Forget about new models of aircraft.Both B and A will have their hands full selling what they have got.

If this is the picture of the UK's best 2 airlines who in the **** is going (can afford) to buy or even take delivery of multi million $ new aircraft??


User currently offlineSpeedmarque From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 684 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7682 times:

Company have also stated they are talking to aircraft and engine manufacturers about future orders.

Deferrals ahead?


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7616 times:



Quoting Richardw (Reply 16):
and are there slots available at LHR for this?

There must be slots available for these if BRU is reduced to 5 daily, AMS to 6, CDG to 8, TYO to 1, JFK to 6, GLA and MAN to 8, NCL to 5... And there is nothing about mainting LIS, PRG, BUD or ATH to 4 daily.

I am sure BA with the 4% reduction can squeeze in some LGW routes in there.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineAPYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 842 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 7564 times:



Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 15):
BA could move TUN, GIB, JER, TIA, PRN and BOD to LHR and see what happens. If yields go up, they might leave those services at LHR. It is the perfect time to try out things...

Yields would have to go up very significantly due to the significantly higher costs of operating out of Heathrow. Some of these routes will only turn a profit (and probably only still exist) due to the much lower cost base at LGW



We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2531 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 1 day ago) and read 7478 times:



Quoting APYu (Reply 20):
Yields would have to go up very significantly due to the significantly higher costs of operating out of Heathrow.

Well these routes could attract high yielding pax from AF or LH. At the moment, everyone in Tunisia who wants to fly longhaul and a lot of them choose business class transfer either through FRA or CDG. Using BA is not nan option because of the LHR/LGW transfer problem. So I would expect better yields but don't know if they would be enough to justify such a move.



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3689 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 7316 times:



Quoting Flybehubby (Reply 7):
Just my 2ps worth.

Quoting SeansasLCY (Thread starter):
Willie Walsh

Im not a BA fan by any means but Willie needs to go! He successfully messed up Aer Lingus, now he's having a good go of BA. Get someone who can restructure BA to the profitable, world class airline it should be!

If you look closely at the results, little can be directly blamed on WW. In all likelihood if he hadn't been at BA imposing modernisation on them for the past few years, it would have been far worse.
The biggest hit by far was the cost of fuel, which was a global situation, followed by the drop off in premium passengers caused by the recession. The final nail in the coffin, is the increase in overseas costs due to the weakness in the £ when it dropped below $1.40 early this year.

A stable fuel price, and the hope that the £ continues to strengthen would make a big difference to BA's performance for 2009.


User currently offlineAPYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 842 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 7241 times:



Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 21):
LHR/LGW transfer problem

Its only 45 minutes by coach



We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
User currently offlineAPYu From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2007, 842 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 7 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 7234 times:

Just on bbc.co.uk/news - Willie is to work the month of July for no pay!!!


We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
25 AirNZ : And, importantly, perceived being the operative word as paying an inflated price does not necessarily correlate into proportionally better service. H
26 GRIVely : I am an executive in a high-tech American company of about 110 persons. We are highly profitable at the moment but, like any thinking business person,
27 Tialati : Also you have to bear in mind that for most people flying BA into LGW is not a wise choice because that airport is quite far away for central and nor
28 Bongodog1964 : If you want to see a really biased take on BA's woes, look at Robert Pestons blog on the BBC's website According to Robert, BA have themselves to blam
29 B747-4U3 : The problem is that the flights that have been cancelled are the ones at off-peak times. If, for example, BA moved the 4 or 5 daily Jersey flights to
30 SQ_EK_freak : Versus what LH or AF offer, checking your bags all the way to your final destination and a (possible) transfer from one terminal structure to another
31 Lumberton : Good post, GRIVely. I posited on other threads that it is doubtful if the premium pax market will ever bounce back to "the way it was before". IMVHO,
32 AirMad : At 6:00 am on a Sunday maybe. The problem is consistency. 45mins one morning, 2 hours the next.
33 CityofAthens : Out of adversity comes opportunity and although these full-year results are of course disappointing to say the least, they do give the company a good
34 AIR MALTA : And quite frankly, I would do it because I am an enthusiast but no business man will endure the pain of transferring between LHR and LGW. BA sends 73
35 B747-4U3 : Thank you both for very interesting and insightful posts. I do however disagree with the statement that things will "never" go back to how they were.
36 AIR MALTA : That's true... In our company we have a travel ban. We can only travel if there is a customer meeting. You can not sign contract with customers or do
37 APYu : I get this coach quite frequently and the buses do get quite busy between LGW North and T5 so some people do put up with what is an inconvenience but
38 AIR MALTA : I will give you an example. I was going to book a flight from BRU to TUN this summer. BA was the cheapest option at EUR360 via LGW/LHR. And because o
39 APYu : Well obviously if theres a direct route of almost a similar price you wouldnt put up with the inconvenience or the extra time! But for those routes w
40 Lumberton : Agreed. That's why I used "doubtful" as the qualifier. I wonder how many companies are adapting as GRIVely's? Surely, there comes a point where the m
41 AirNZ : Then an alternative routing is either something those businessmen must do, or they can 'endure' it.......thankfully world aviation is not concentric
42 VV701 : No. Both long haul and short haul. For example BA previously announced that it would retire its remaining fleet of 752s starting in 2010 and has a co
43 Post contains links Feroze : Here's an interesting article from The Guardian entitled British Airways ditch first class in new planes as age of austerity bites http://www.guardian
44 Babybus : I notice in the article they say about 'high-rollers' going to Las Vegas with no F class seats. Don't they mean 'tourists'? BA like other airlines wi
45 AIR MALTA : I agree with you. Before the crisis, BA was struggling with non premium traffic and I feel that's where it should start working. Cost consciosu trave
46 Lumberton : Thank you, Feroze. Sounds like a preview of what to expect when BA takes delivery of the A380 and 787s?
47 Gkirk : Perhaps if they operated more from the regions.... *Sorry, but someone had to say it *
48 APYu : Why does everyone think LAS is pikeyville. There is a reason VS charge some of their highest J fares on the LGW - LAS route! Because people with mone
49 AirNZ : Other than in a derogatory tone, how are you defining "tourists"........after all, isn't some 'rich' passenger not on 'business' simply a 'tourist'?
50 Richardw : So will we see the return of the short haul BA Gatwick routes starting at £29 one way?
51 AIR MALTA : BA treats every passenger better than LCC do... Sorry to say that. And that's why their prices are higher. I have traveled on some LCC and except Fly
52 Gkirk : No they dont. Do Loco's lose baggage? Not as much as BA do. Now, I like flying BA, they are a decent airline, but to come out with something like tha
53 CityofAthens : I think people are tending to go by their own personal experiences, whilst assuming everyone else's experience matches their own. This is very typical
54 BlueShamu330s : ...like present Crew T & Cs, the pension black hole, all those cosy S/H nightstops...
55 Davehammer : Excellent Post City of Athens. As a frequent flier on BA someone who has relatives that gave sixty plus years of service between them to BOAC and then
56 CityofAthens : I agree; everyone has to contribute and I'm ready and willing to do my part. I enjoy my job, and I enjoy working for BA; long may both continue. My e
57 Post contains links AIR MALTA : Off course, it is difficult to loose a bag on a route like Girona-Hahn... And those LCC do not do transfer or interlining, so get your facts right an
58 B747-4U3 : Also, people who fly LCC are less likely to have checked luggage.
59 Gkirk : And so are your BA are the dogs bollocks comments. Yes, BA are a decent airline, but they are by no means perfect - hence there big losses.
60 Viscount724 : That's not the only reason. They can charge high fares becuase they currently have a monopoly on nonstop service. J passengers are less price-sensiti
61 G-CIVP : I think this thread has drifted off topic, into discussions about customer service and equipment. BA is a company in trouble. Customer demand is dropp
62 ExecJet : The loss is worrying - very worrying - but not particularly surprising. As a BA employee, I am deeply concerned. I really hope that people from across
63 Antonovman : I will tell you why i posted this. The guy concerned ie AirNZ , have you read his posts ? he obviously hates BA -well that is his perogotive and ever
64 Babybus : My point is that BA claims to make most of its money from premium class passengers. Well, there aren't that many of that kind around these days. Busin
65 B747-4U3 : Business travel is drying up and more and more businessmen are flying in Economy class now, but don't think that people visiting friends and relative
66 LHR380 : Every airline makes the most money out of its prem passengers (and cargo of course) (Mainline service, not including the charters) and btw, its not J
67 Veeseeten : Just to add a bit of balance here. I do not think that AirNZ 'hates' BA, yes he is very frequently critical (i.e seemingly every single post relating
68 Babybus : Forgot to mention people flying on FF points, airline staff and those pax dismayed at the lack of service on Ryanair.
69 AirNZ : And I will answer it in this way......first off, you should then have gotten your facts right before you posted it! Then I'll give you some facts whi
70 AirNZ : Thank you for your comments, and they are much appreciated. I am, however, sorry that you find some tiresome but, as stated previously, so are those
71 B747-4U3 : I never suggested that leisure travellers were not travelling more than business travellers. I was merely stating that the decline in Economy Class l
72 LVZXV : Aren't the two retired frames G-BPEC (wfu 06-03-09) and G-CPEL (wfu 19-05-09)? Apparently G-CPES is just in standard maintenance since that date and
73 TristarSteve : Yes. PEC and PEL have finished with BA and are being stored. PES still flies.
74 EDICHC : Well how do you explain the fact that EK have as equally culturally diverse crew/staff yet offer consistently high service standards? An incorrect ge
75 CityofAthens : That's debatable my friend; I have seen good and bad service on Emirates, and having worked for Emirates as my first job I can testify to that fact.
76 EDICHC : Perhaps a better way of putting would be to say a higher degree of consistency then. It may be one thing to view standards from an employee's aspect,
77 B747-4U3 : That's open to debate. I have taken in excess of 150 flights with BA and very rarely have I had a bad or indifferent crew ( there was one flight from
78 CityofAthens : I agree 100% on that; the airline is belatedly trying to battle against inconsistency; as I said above, the airline is in some ways fighting an uphil
79 Mgmacius : My thoughts exactly! BA longhaul economy is terrible, and there is no explanation for it - I will never fly with them again for longer than 2-3 hours
80 FCA767 : Thanks for the clear up that's a big loss...I'd take £1 million and live on an island somewhere near St martin
81 Viscount724 : What are you referring to? I have flown BA/LH/LX/AF/KL longhaul economy within the past year and BA/LXAF/KL shorthaul economy in the past 6 months an
82 Iainbhx : I find them all much of a muchness for shorthaul to be honest as a business traveller. BA's lounges are the best, AF's food is probably the best, LX
83 David L : And yet simultaneously an extremely well liked airline. Go figure. I haven't flown longhaul in Y for a few years with BA, admittedly, but I have flow
84 Davehammer : So very true. I generally like BA as they are the best option for the majority of the routes that I regularly travel and I've had consistently excell
85 Mgmacius : PTV is not a problem here, overall quality is. When you compare what BA offers with similiar product from QF or SQ, you can clearly see that it's dif
86 AIR MALTA : Well you'd better stick to SQ for all your flying. Don't bother trying LH, AF or KL...
87 David L : ... or many others - exactly. If we judge an airline by comparing it to a few exceptional ones then it's hardly surprising that the majority appear "
88 Mgmacius : OK, but isn't it obvious, that you choose the best, not worst? I don't mean BA or AF is worst by any definition, it's just I think it's normal to sti
89 David L : And I don't see how BA can be described as... ... by any definition other than "if it's not the very best, it's terrible". Fortunately most of us can
90 EDICHC : I have a reputation on here for being a 'BA basher', yet I have never described them as terrible. I just don't think they are nearly as good a carrie
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