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Remains Of Air NZ DC-10 Crash  
User currently offlineChris From Canada, joined May 1999, 160 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 21095 times:

Does anyone know if the wreckage of the Air New Zealand DC-10 that crashed in the Antarctic was removed or is it still there due to the remoteness of the location?

Chris

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 21083 times:
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my understanding is that other than a few small pieces which might have been evidence in the investigation the rest is there . it is too big , too difficult , too dangerous and too expensive to remove it and no real purpose would be achieved in doing so . However , I believe that nearly 30 years on ( I still find that hard to believe ) that a lot of the wreckage is no longer visible due to accumulation of snow/ice etc


Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineKnid From New Zealand, joined Aug 2005, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 21051 times:

When people returned for the 25th (2007) anniversary there was still some wreckage visible, an engine, and forward sections of the fuselage IIRC.

User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5001 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 21019 times:



Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1):
my understanding is that other than a few small pieces which might have been evidence in the investigation the rest is there . it is too big , too difficult , too dangerous and too expensive to remove it and no real purpose would be achieved in doing so . However , I believe that nearly 30 years on ( I still find that hard to believe ) that a lot of the wreckage is no longer visible due to accumulation of snow/ice etc

I too have been told that a majority of the wreckage is still there. I read a book several years ago about the crash, but I do not recall if there was anything in it about the wreckage and where it is. It would be very interesting to learn about it. It would make a great Discovery Channel episode! Yes, and the accumulation of snow and ice may make things tricky. However, I know Mt. Rainer has given back some old history.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineDarenw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 20988 times:



Quoting Knid (Reply 2):
When people returned for the 25th (2007) anniversary there was still some wreckage visible, an engine, and forward sections of the fuselage IIRC.

http://antarctic.homestead.com/erebus1.html

FYI


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 20905 times:
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Quoting F9Animal (Reply 3):
It would be very interesting to learn about it. It would make a great Discovery Channel episode! Yes, and the accumulation of snow and ice may make things tricky.

I believe that there were a number of crevasses around the crash site , this made the victim recovery and crash investigation quite hazardous , furthermore not all bodies were recoverable thus making the disaster site a grave , for both these reasons I believe that the crash site ought to be left undisturbed as much as possible . That is not to say that a documentary would not be fascinating , but I dont believe that poking around the site would add anything to the story and I think it could be quite distasteful to the families of those victims whose bodies were not able to be recovered .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3139 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 20533 times:



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 3):
It would be very interesting to learn about it. It would make a great Discovery Channel episode!

In this country there have been any number of documentaries, televised tributes etc to those lost on the slopes of Erebus. And for all of us Kiwis over a certain age, the memory of the Koru laying on the slopes of the mountain gives us a sobering chill, reflected in that of the NZ A320 tail in the Mediterranean off Perpignan 29-years later to the day.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineTravellerPlus From New Zealand, joined Nov 2008, 347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 20469 times:

As a family member of someone who was on the flight, I can confirm that the wreckage is still on Mt Erebus. As KiwiAndrew said, there may be people who are still on the mountain, like my family member who was never recovered. As none of his personal effects were recovered either, he can only be there lying there in peace.

The wreckage itself emerges from the snow and ice depending on the snow melt. All the Antarctic treaty members have declared the site itself, the land on the mountain stretching down to the Ross Sea and the airspace above these areas a tomb. This is because the wreckage lies on a glacier like ice sheet which is sliding down to the sea. Eventually it will end up in at the bottom of the sea. So in normal circumstances helicopter overflights are prohibited and the area cannot be entered for research. Filming for commercial reasons is absolutely prohibited. This is good.



What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
User currently onlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3811 posts, RR: 34
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 20025 times:



Quoting Knid (Reply 2):
When people returned for the 25th (2007) anniversary

That crash happened on November 28, 1979, so the 25th anniversary would have been in 2004. (I only remember the date of the crash because it was my 20th birthday.)

LoneStarMike


User currently offlineKlwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2018 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 18796 times:

Interesting this topic came up.

Two weeks ago, I went to youtube.com and there in fact IS a documentary on the accident available for viewing.

The documentary is from New Zealand, of course...

It is different from the Mayday crash investigation series, so it is not done the same way, but it is interesting.


User currently offlineKlwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2018 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 18740 times:

And to answer the question, I believe the documentary does state that most of the wreckage is still there.

It simply wasn't practical to remove most of it.

The documentary states that film from cameras of crash victims were developed.

Also Sir Edmund Hillary was supposed to be the tour guide for the flight, but his partner had to step in at the last.


User currently offlineBA84 From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 418 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 18582 times:
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Interesting article on Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_New_Zealand_Flight_901

BA84


User currently offlineJumboJim747 From Australia, joined Oct 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 44
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 15951 times:
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With All due respect to the victims and their families i need to ask one question.
Why is it so difficult to remove some of the victims from the crash site.?
No matter the difficulty no matter the hazard involved I'm sure they could have been retrieved.
I think they deserved that little more effort.



On a wing and a prayer
User currently offlineKiwiTEAL From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 253 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 14978 times:

In response to JumboJim747's question regarding victim recovery, I strongly suggest that for more information, you visit YouTube and type in the following title into Search.

Mount Erebus Disaster (1979) Part 1 of 5)

This will answer most questions. There is complex information provided by members of the recovery team members, NZ police, and Civil Aviation Inspectors. There are also conversations with Capt Jim Collins wife and daughter, and relatives of those who lost their lives. Its a sad, but gripping doco.

John


User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13796 times:



Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 7):
All the Antarctic treaty members have declared the site itself, the land on the mountain stretching down to the Ross Sea and the airspace above these areas a tomb. This is because the wreckage lies on a glacier like ice sheet which is sliding down to the sea. Eventually it will end up in at the bottom of the sea. So in normal circumstances helicopter overflights are prohibited and the area cannot be entered for research. Filming for commercial reasons is absolutely prohibited.

Apparently not. Did you read this? :

Quoting Klwright69 (Reply 10):
The documentary states that film from cameras of crash victims were developed.

And there have been quite a few photos of the crash site published.


User currently offlineWoodsboy From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1029 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13736 times:

With the upmost respect, extensive recovery in this particular situation was not feesable given the location, weather, the fact that Mt Erubus is an ACTIVE volcano and is partially covered with unstable snow and icepack not to mention glaciers. To put recovery teams in a considerable amount of danger for a salvage mission when there are no survivors makes no sense. Lets be glad more people didnt die in a futile effort to recover bodies, I would never have expected such measures to be taken simply to recover a body.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24917 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 13348 times:



Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 12):
With All due respect to the victims and their families i need to ask one question.
Why is it so difficult to remove some of the victims from the crash site.?
No matter the difficulty no matter the hazard involved I'm sure they could have been retrieved.
I think they deserved that little more effort.

All possible remains of the victims WERE recovered and returned to New Zealand for identification. 214 of the 257 victims were identified. The team involved in the recovery and identification received a special medal two years ago. Relevant news items:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/mt-erebus-...cfm?c_id=1500932&objectid=10430381
http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/p...on+nz+special+service+medal+erebus
http://www.police.govt.nz/news/tenone/20070330-295/feature-erebus.htm

This site has detailed coverage of the crash and the recovery/identification operations.
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/culture/erebus-disaster


User currently offlineF9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5001 posts, RR: 28
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 13231 times:



Quoting Klwright69 (Reply 10):
The documentary states that film from cameras of crash victims were developed.

Yes, and one of the pictures taken from a crash victim shows a shot exactly at impact. It was in the book I read, and it clearly sticks in my mind.



I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlineTDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12945 times:



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 17):
Quoting Klwright69 (Reply 10):
The documentary states that film from cameras of crash victims were developed.


Yes, and one of the pictures taken from a crash victim shows a shot exactly at impact. It was in the book I read, and it clearly sticks in my mind.

Wow -- pretty wild -- do you recall the name of the book?


User currently offlineFoxecho From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 746 posts, RR: 17
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12637 times:



Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 18):
Wow -- pretty wild -- do you recall the name of the book?

Impact Erebus, by Gordon Vette

I read it too as a kid and know the exact photo F9Animal speaks of, Dark fuel streaks on the window is all you see.....

what stood out in my mind in addition to that photo was the photos from inside the cabin with people crowded at the windows looking out, and someone else having a drink in his hand.... just looked like a party in the sky just like that Documentary linked above said in the first installment....

Andrew
JFK/MEM/MCI



..uh, we'll need that to live......
User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11802 times:



Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 12):
Why is it so difficult to remove some of the victims from the crash site.?

Aircraft crashes are incredibly violent, and the human body is frail and seldom remains intact in a crash.

Even in ideal conditions, recover of all human remains is often impossible. Recovering everyone from a major crash usually involves sifting tons of dirt for very small remains.

The first time I was at an aircraft crash site, they picked several of us up from the Ops snack bar at Clark and flew us out in helos to 'look for a pilot'.

Then they lined us up at the edge of a debris field and gave us hospital type gloves and buckets to 'find the pilot'.


User currently offlineJumboJim747 From Australia, joined Oct 2004, 2464 posts, RR: 44
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 11243 times:
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Thanks to all who have replied to my question.
RIP To all of them and i hope this tragedy is never repeated



On a wing and a prayer
User currently offlineTG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 11165 times:

Interestingly, the First Officer's daughter is now a First Officer with us on the 777!

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 20):
Even in ideal conditions, recover of all human remains is often impossible. Recovering everyone from a major crash usually involves sifting tons of dirt for very small remains.

Too true - body fragments from the Air Canada DC8 crash over 30 years ago are still easy to find in the field where it came down. Bones, and such  Sad

Quoting F9Animal (Reply 17):
Yes, and one of the pictures taken from a crash victim shows a shot exactly at impact. It was in the book I read, and it clearly sticks in my mind.

This horrific photo shows fuel spattering over the window - the passenger, to quote a phrase from the book which has stuck in my mind for years 'must have passed from life to death as his finger pressed the camera button'.

In addition, there's film footage which shows the impact - I recall it being interior cabin shots, then swinging around to film out of the window, views of the ice below etc then a sudden burst of flames, blurry objects tumbling around, then blackness.



-
User currently offlineNZA320 From New Zealand, joined May 2007, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 11115 times:



Quoting F9Animal (Reply 17):
Yes, and one of the pictures taken from a crash victim shows a shot exactly at impact. It was in the book I read, and it clearly sticks in my mind.



Regards
NZA320



Hovering is for pilots who love to fly but have no place to go.
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8544 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 11013 times:
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Quoting TG992 (Reply 22):
Interestingly, the First Officer's daughter is now a First Officer with us on the 777!

thank you , I wondered about that , I flew PVG-AKL on the 777 in Nov 2007 and was lucky enough to be on a flight which she was crewing , I recognised her surname on the crew announcement , but obviously didnt want to ask whether she was a relative - thought it might be a bit sensitive



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
25 FlyPBA : so you think people should risk their lives to return the remains of people who are already dead? that doesn't make sense
26 JumboJim747 : FLyPBA If ever any of your relatives are in that position one day maybe you can ask yourself that question. I hope it never happens but you will have
27 Mariner : I have enormous admiration for the determination and the bravery of those who retrieved the bodies in this instance, and I am sure it was of profound
28 Dc10s2hnl : I personally feel and also think none of my family would wish others the possible death of a rescuer in a hazardous effort to retrieve their body. Le
29 TravellerPlus : Whilst I can see how confusion may arose from the information in my post, do you really think it is appropriate to "correct" me about the situation r
30 Borism : I'd just like to apologize to TravellerPlus that there are moments when some people would argue just for arguments' sake with someone who has been per
31 Bennett123 : IMO Borism is spot on. Those who say recover everything need to take account both of the practicality of that(Rfield5421) , and the impact on the "Rec
32 Mariner : Yes, but they are extraordinary and honorable scars, earned when doing something dangerous and/or harrowing - but completely selfless, entirely for t
33 TG992 : Actually, my info is out of date. Shes now a F/O on the A320, so perhaps she was in fact a S/O on the 777 and has now upgraded. I do recall her being
34 RFields5421 : I understand your thoughts, but I've been at too many aircraft crash sites, including over 500 dead and 150 dead before any recovery of remains. I've
35 Foxecho : Good Lord, I didn'r realize there was movie footage as well from the flight.... I'm going down to Australia/NZ in late August and would like to pay m
36 Post contains links Flyingfox27 : In this picture, the plane looks like it has AA markings, was it an ex AA bird and the ANZ markings burnt off in the crash? http://www.nzhistory.net.n
37 Post contains links TG992 : The video footage isn't widely available - I only ever saw it screened once on New Zealand tv. The best directions I've seen to the memorial area is
38 Foxecho : Many thanks! much appreciated! Andrew
39 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : Coincidentally, AA's first 3 DC-10-30s, acquired in 1981/82 soon after AA was awarded their first DFW-Europe routes, were ex-NZ. They eventually oper
40 Flypba : Actually I have ... and I would never ask someone to risk their life just to return part or all of a body
41 Richierich : You have had some difficult jobs and for that you have my complete respect. Horrific, scary and sobering. Wow.
42 BuyantUkhaa : How is it possible that the negatives survived all this? Even if they weren't consumed by fire, they must have remained in their (intact) casings/came
43 Post contains links NIZMO : I found the video mentioned above on youtube here is a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0ZIbCItfgw pretty hard to watch, Russ
44 Bennett123 : IMO, the key fact in reply 23 is that the passengers did not see it coming. Best way really, One instant you are enjoying life, the next "nothing" or
45 Post contains links VirginFlyer : Apparently episode 9 of the current series of Air Crash Investigations/Mayday is about TE901, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mayday
46 Emirates Skies : It's appaling, to say the least, to see a.net forums sinking to new lows. Some comments on here can hardly be any more insensitive. Peace out.
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