Chris From Canada, joined May 1999, 160 posts, RR: 0 Posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 17963 times:
Does anyone know if the wreckage of the Air New Zealand DC-10 that crashed in the Antarctic was removed or is it still there due to the remoteness of the location?
Kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8435 posts, RR: 14 Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 17951 times:
my understanding is that other than a few small pieces which might have been evidence in the investigation the rest is there . it is too big , too difficult , too dangerous and too expensive to remove it and no real purpose would be achieved in doing so . However , I believe that nearly 30 years on ( I still find that hard to believe ) that a lot of the wreckage is no longer visible due to accumulation of snow/ice etc
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
F9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4745 posts, RR: 29 Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 17887 times:
Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 1): my understanding is that other than a few small pieces which might have been evidence in the investigation the rest is there . it is too big , too difficult , too dangerous and too expensive to remove it and no real purpose would be achieved in doing so . However , I believe that nearly 30 years on ( I still find that hard to believe ) that a lot of the wreckage is no longer visible due to accumulation of snow/ice etc
I too have been told that a majority of the wreckage is still there. I read a book several years ago about the crash, but I do not recall if there was anything in it about the wreckage and where it is. It would be very interesting to learn about it. It would make a great Discovery Channel episode! Yes, and the accumulation of snow and ice may make things tricky. However, I know Mt. Rainer has given back some old history.
Darenw From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 17856 times:
Quoting Knid (Reply 2): When people returned for the 25th (2007) anniversary there was still some wreckage visible, an engine, and forward sections of the fuselage IIRC.
Kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8435 posts, RR: 14 Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 17773 times:
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 3): It would be very interesting to learn about it. It would make a great Discovery Channel episode! Yes, and the accumulation of snow and ice may make things tricky.
I believe that there were a number of crevasses around the crash site , this made the victim recovery and crash investigation quite hazardous , furthermore not all bodies were recoverable thus making the disaster site a grave , for both these reasons I believe that the crash site ought to be left undisturbed as much as possible . That is not to say that a documentary would not be fascinating , but I dont believe that poking around the site would add anything to the story and I think it could be quite distasteful to the families of those victims whose bodies were not able to be recovered .
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
MotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 2817 posts, RR: 10 Reply 6, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 17401 times:
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 3): It would be very interesting to learn about it. It would make a great Discovery Channel episode!
In this country there have been any number of documentaries, televised tributes etc to those lost on the slopes of Erebus. And for all of us Kiwis over a certain age, the memory of the Koru laying on the slopes of the mountain gives us a sobering chill, reflected in that of the NZ A320 tail in the Mediterranean off Perpignan 29-years later to the day.
TravellerPlus From New Zealand, joined Nov 2008, 347 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 17337 times:
As a family member of someone who was on the flight, I can confirm that the wreckage is still on Mt Erebus. As KiwiAndrew said, there may be people who are still on the mountain, like my family member who was never recovered. As none of his personal effects were recovered either, he can only be there lying there in peace.
The wreckage itself emerges from the snow and ice depending on the snow melt. All the Antarctic treaty members have declared the site itself, the land on the mountain stretching down to the Ross Sea and the airspace above these areas a tomb. This is because the wreckage lies on a glacier like ice sheet which is sliding down to the sea. Eventually it will end up in at the bottom of the sea. So in normal circumstances helicopter overflights are prohibited and the area cannot be entered for research. Filming for commercial reasons is absolutely prohibited. This is good.
What goes around comes around....unless your luggage is not on the carousel...
LoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3654 posts, RR: 38 Reply 8, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 16893 times:
Quoting Knid (Reply 2): When people returned for the 25th (2007) anniversary
That crash happened on November 28, 1979, so the 25th anniversary would have been in 2004. (I only remember the date of the crash because it was my 20th birthday.)
JumboJim747 From Australia, joined Oct 2004, 2462 posts, RR: 50 Reply 12, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 12819 times:
With All due respect to the victims and their families i need to ask one question.
Why is it so difficult to remove some of the victims from the crash site.?
No matter the difficulty no matter the hazard involved I'm sure they could have been retrieved.
I think they deserved that little more effort.
KiwiTEAL From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 253 posts, RR: 1 Reply 13, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 11846 times:
In response to JumboJim747's question regarding victim recovery, I strongly suggest that for more information, you visit YouTube and type in the following title into Search.
Mount Erebus Disaster (1979) Part 1 of 5)
This will answer most questions. There is complex information provided by members of the recovery team members, NZ police, and Civil Aviation Inspectors. There are also conversations with Capt Jim Collins wife and daughter, and relatives of those who lost their lives. Its a sad, but gripping doco.
TDubJFK From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10664 times:
Quoting TravellerPlus (Reply 7): All the Antarctic treaty members have declared the site itself, the land on the mountain stretching down to the Ross Sea and the airspace above these areas a tomb. This is because the wreckage lies on a glacier like ice sheet which is sliding down to the sea. Eventually it will end up in at the bottom of the sea. So in normal circumstances helicopter overflights are prohibited and the area cannot be entered for research. Filming for commercial reasons is absolutely prohibited.
Apparently not. Did you read this? :
Quoting Klwright69 (Reply 10): The documentary states that film from cameras of crash victims were developed.
And there have been quite a few photos of the crash site published.
Woodsboy From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1015 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10604 times:
With the upmost respect, extensive recovery in this particular situation was not feesable given the location, weather, the fact that Mt Erubus is an ACTIVE volcano and is partially covered with unstable snow and icepack not to mention glaciers. To put recovery teams in a considerable amount of danger for a salvage mission when there are no survivors makes no sense. Lets be glad more people didnt die in a futile effort to recover bodies, I would never have expected such measures to be taken simply to recover a body.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21679 posts, RR: 23 Reply 16, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10216 times:
Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 12): With All due respect to the victims and their families i need to ask one question.
Why is it so difficult to remove some of the victims from the crash site.?
No matter the difficulty no matter the hazard involved I'm sure they could have been retrieved.
I think they deserved that little more effort.
F9Animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4745 posts, RR: 29 Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10099 times:
Quoting Klwright69 (Reply 10): The documentary states that film from cameras of crash victims were developed.
Yes, and one of the pictures taken from a crash victim shows a shot exactly at impact. It was in the book I read, and it clearly sticks in my mind.
Foxecho From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 729 posts, RR: 19 Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9505 times:
Quoting TDubJFK (Reply 18): Wow -- pretty wild -- do you recall the name of the book?
Impact Erebus, by Gordon Vette
I read it too as a kid and know the exact photo F9Animal speaks of, Dark fuel streaks on the window is all you see.....
what stood out in my mind in addition to that photo was the photos from inside the cabin with people crowded at the windows looking out, and someone else having a drink in his hand.... just looked like a party in the sky just like that Documentary linked above said in the first installment....
RFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6192 posts, RR: 25 Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8670 times:
Quoting JumboJim747 (Reply 12): Why is it so difficult to remove some of the victims from the crash site.?
Aircraft crashes are incredibly violent, and the human body is frail and seldom remains intact in a crash.
Even in ideal conditions, recover of all human remains is often impossible. Recovering everyone from a major crash usually involves sifting tons of dirt for very small remains.
The first time I was at an aircraft crash site, they picked several of us up from the Ops snack bar at Clark and flew us out in helos to 'look for a pilot'.
Then they lined us up at the edge of a debris field and gave us hospital type gloves and buckets to 'find the pilot'.
TG992 From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 11 Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 8033 times:
Interestingly, the First Officer's daughter is now a First Officer with us on the 777!
Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 20): Even in ideal conditions, recover of all human remains is often impossible. Recovering everyone from a major crash usually involves sifting tons of dirt for very small remains.
Too true - body fragments from the Air Canada DC8 crash over 30 years ago are still easy to find in the field where it came down. Bones, and such
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 17): Yes, and one of the pictures taken from a crash victim shows a shot exactly at impact. It was in the book I read, and it clearly sticks in my mind.
This horrific photo shows fuel spattering over the window - the passenger, to quote a phrase from the book which has stuck in my mind for years 'must have passed from life to death as his finger pressed the camera button'.
In addition, there's film footage which shows the impact - I recall it being interior cabin shots, then swinging around to film out of the window, views of the ice below etc then a sudden burst of flames, blurry objects tumbling around, then blackness.
NZA320 From New Zealand, joined May 2007, 162 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 7983 times:
Quoting F9Animal (Reply 17): Yes, and one of the pictures taken from a crash victim shows a shot exactly at impact. It was in the book I read, and it clearly sticks in my mind.
Regards
NZA320
Hovering is for pilots who love to fly but have no place to go.
Kiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8435 posts, RR: 14 Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7881 times:
Quoting TG992 (Reply 22): Interestingly, the First Officer's daughter is now a First Officer with us on the 777!
thank you , I wondered about that , I flew PVG-AKL on the 777 in Nov 2007 and was lucky enough to be on a flight which she was crewing , I recognised her surname on the crew announcement , but obviously didnt want to ask whether she was a relative - thought it might be a bit sensitive
Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
25 FlyPBA: so you think people should risk their lives to return the remains of people who are already dead? that doesn't make sense
26 JumboJim747: FLyPBA If ever any of your relatives are in that position one day maybe you can ask yourself that question. I hope it never happens but you will have
27 Mariner: I have enormous admiration for the determination and the bravery of those who retrieved the bodies in this instance, and I am sure it was of profound
28 Dc10s2hnl: I personally feel and also think none of my family would wish others the possible death of a rescuer in a hazardous effort to retrieve their body. Le
29 TravellerPlus: Whilst I can see how confusion may arose from the information in my post, do you really think it is appropriate to "correct" me about the situation r
30 Borism: I'd just like to apologize to TravellerPlus that there are moments when some people would argue just for arguments' sake with someone who has been per
31 Bennett123: IMO Borism is spot on. Those who say recover everything need to take account both of the practicality of that(Rfield5421) , and the impact on the "Rec
32 Mariner: Yes, but they are extraordinary and honorable scars, earned when doing something dangerous and/or harrowing - but completely selfless, entirely for t
33 TG992: Actually, my info is out of date. Shes now a F/O on the A320, so perhaps she was in fact a S/O on the 777 and has now upgraded. I do recall her being
34 RFields5421: I understand your thoughts, but I've been at too many aircraft crash sites, including over 500 dead and 150 dead before any recovery of remains. I've
35 Foxecho: Good Lord, I didn'r realize there was movie footage as well from the flight.... I'm going down to Australia/NZ in late August and would like to pay m
36 Flyingfox27: In this picture, the plane looks like it has AA markings, was it an ex AA bird and the ANZ markings burnt off in the crash? http://www.nzhistory.net.n
37 TG992: The video footage isn't widely available - I only ever saw it screened once on New Zealand tv. The best directions I've seen to the memorial area is
39 Viscount724: Coincidentally, AA's first 3 DC-10-30s, acquired in 1981/82 soon after AA was awarded their first DFW-Europe routes, were ex-NZ. They eventually oper
40 Flypba: Actually I have ... and I would never ask someone to risk their life just to return part or all of a body
41 Richierich: You have had some difficult jobs and for that you have my complete respect. Horrific, scary and sobering. Wow.
42 BuyantUkhaa: How is it possible that the negatives survived all this? Even if they weren't consumed by fire, they must have remained in their (intact) casings/came
43 NIZMO: I found the video mentioned above on youtube here is a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0ZIbCItfgw pretty hard to watch, Russ
44 Bennett123: IMO, the key fact in reply 23 is that the passengers did not see it coming. Best way really, One instant you are enjoying life, the next "nothing" or
45 VirginFlyer: Apparently episode 9 of the current series of Air Crash Investigations/Mayday is about TE901, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mayday
46 Emirates Skies: It's appaling, to say the least, to see a.net forums sinking to new lows. Some comments on here can hardly be any more insensitive. Peace out.
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