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DL New Nonstop SLC-NRT June 3rd  
User currently offlineFlaps30 From United States of America, joined May 2009, 287 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 7650 times:

Now that DL is finally starting the first ever nonstop flight from SLC to Asia, how do you folks feel this flight will do and will it last?


every day is a good day to fly
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBurnsie28 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 7545 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 7458 times:

Its hard to say as to how many places the majority of traffic is coming from that they will need to go through SLC. Most of the cities can be served through the likes of MSP etc. Right now the first flight is pretty close to full.


"Some People Just Know How To Fly"- Best slogan ever, RIP NW 1926-2009
User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7320 times:

DL also starts PITCDG on 3JUN with a B757...


Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineFlaps30 From United States of America, joined May 2009, 287 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7141 times:



Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 2):
DL also starts PITCDG on 3JUN with a B757...

This seems to be an odd route for DL. I wonder why they feel the need to start this route. They have no historical connection to PIT and US dropped this route with many others from PIT. I can understand SLC-NRT becuase of the huge hub in SLC, but PIT-CDG makes no sense to me.



every day is a good day to fly
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3213 posts, RR: 10
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7122 times:



Quoting Flaps30 (Reply 3):
I can understand SLC-NRT becuase of the huge hub in SLC, but PIT-CDG makes no sense to me.

I believe they're taking over from Air France, basically the route needed to be downgraded and of course DL have the 757 and this is basically the strategy NW has used from AMS... same thing by the looks of things.


User currently offlineLoggat From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7065 times:



Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 4):
I believe they're taking over from Air France

No-one has operated this route since US Airways ceased it way back when. This PIT-CDG route on DL is being subsidized by someone in the PIT area.



There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
User currently offlineMastaHanky From United States of America, joined May 2006, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6868 times:

I'm on the inaugural SLC-NRT flight. Come say hi to me in 14H.  Big grin

User currently offlineNYC-AIR From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 6863 times:

Not that this needs to be said, but people in the know choose SLC over most other hubs in the US. ATL, DFW, LAX, SEA, MSP, ORD - need I go on, all those airports have issues with delays.

To quote wikipedia, "Salt Lake City International ranked number one among U.S. airports in on-time departures and arrivals in 2006 through July 2007 and was the number one on time airport in 2008. Salt Lake City International also had the fewest flight cancellations among U.S. airports."

DL's SLC hub has been successful domestically specifically because of its performance. Hopefully some of those PAX will remember their positive experiences if/when going to NRT.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9392 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6610 times:



Quoting Flaps30 (Reply 3):
This seems to be an odd route for DL. I wonder why they feel the need to start this route. They have no historical connection to PIT and US dropped this route with many others from PIT. I can understand SLC-NRT becuase of the huge hub in SLC, but PIT-CDG makes no sense to me.

Its free money. DL is getting paid to fly it for 2 years. IMO in 2 years it will be cut.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 4):
I believe they're taking over from Air France, basically the route needed to be downgraded and of course DL have the 757 and this is basically the strategy NW has used from AMS... same thing by the looks of things.

That would be PHL-CDG.



yep.
User currently offlineNwaesc From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6482 times:



Quoting Flaps30 (Reply 3):
This seems to be an odd route for DL. I wonder why they feel the need to start this route. They have no historical connection to PIT and US dropped this route with many others from PIT. I can understand SLC-NRT becuase of the huge hub in SLC, but PIT-CDG makes no sense to me.


$$$$ from Allegheny county...



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineDL Widget Head From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2093 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6482 times:



Quoting Flaps30 (Reply 3):
They have no historical connection to PIT and US dropped this route with many others from PIT. I can understand SLC-NRT becuase of the huge hub in SLC, but PIT-CDG makes no sense to me.

The DL/AF JV makes this route perfectly sensible. Even though PIT is not a DL hub, by virtue of the JV, CDG is a virtual DL hub in Europe which should allow for this route to be successful.


User currently offlineFlaps30 From United States of America, joined May 2009, 287 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6412 times:

All this PIT-CDG is good info, but I would really like to get back to the original topic of SLC-NRT and how you think it will do.


every day is a good day to fly
User currently offlineMastaHanky From United States of America, joined May 2006, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6160 times:

The fact that it's 5x weekly instead of daily is probably a bit helpful - daily would be too much capacity. I think a 763ER would be a better aircraft for it (capacity-wise), but I don't know if it has the legs for the westbound flight. It sounds like the A330 is already taking a payload hit.

The subsidies on the route definitely help. They have waived landing fees and like $1.5 million in marketing being provided by the state of Utah. I think there may even be a revenue guarantee for the first two years or so.

Most of A.net was surprised to see SLC-CDG stick around, but I felt pretty confident in it. I don't have the same confidence in SLC-NRT, but I'm willing to be surprised.


User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6080 times:



Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 12):

The fact that it's 5x weekly instead of daily is probably a bit helpful - daily would be too much capacity. I think a 763ER would be a better aircraft for it (capacity-wise), but I don't know if it has the legs for the westbound flight. It sounds like the A330 is already taking a payload hit.

I'd guess that the 763ER with winglets would be a better alternative to an A332...



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlinePGNCS From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 2823 posts, RR: 45
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6007 times:



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 13):
Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 12):

The fact that it's 5x weekly instead of daily is probably a bit helpful - daily would be too much capacity. I think a 763ER would be a better aircraft for it (capacity-wise), but I don't know if it has the legs for the westbound flight. It sounds like the A330 is already taking a payload hit.

I'd guess that the 763ER with winglets would be a better alternative to an A332...

Based on what?


User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10422 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5911 times:



Quoting Evan767 (Reply 13):

I'd guess that the 763ER with winglets would be a better alternative to an A332...

Well, the fact that the route was originally proposed to SLC by NW may have something to do with the choice of a/c.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offline7324ever From Serbia, joined May 2009, 563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5220 times:



Quoting Dispatchguy (Reply 2):

Does the 757 have the range to do this route without restrictions?



Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4800 times:



Quoting PGNCS (Reply 14):

Based on what?

My instinct.



The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9392 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4772 times:



Quoting Mayor (Reply 15):
Well, the fact that the route was originally proposed to SLC by NW may have something to do with the choice of a/c.

Its got a lot more to do with the fact the 763 just wouldn't make it.
SLC-NRT is 300nm longer than SLC -CDG which last summer was making stops in CVG on the way. 332 was picked because it was the smallest aircraft with the range to make it. Hell the 332 still wont carry full PAX.



yep.
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4653 times:

SLC-NRT makes me think that DL's plans are to create more non-stops with smaller aircraft, giving more options to passengers. Starting June 3rd you can fly to Tokyo from 9 locations in the US on one airline!

That is great and all but I think it is just a step toward a different system.

Reduce capacity on DTW-NRT to 1 744 and 1 777 or 787. Then add in DTW-PEK and DTW-HKG with a 744 or 787. You split some of your transfer market at NRT while maintaining the yield market to Japan.

When the economy picks up again I bet, KE will come in to DTW. That would mean fewer pax flying DTW-NRT-ICN. If DL starts DTW-PEK and HKG, fewer yet through NRT. Then you also have the possibility of CZ starting CAN-DTW (long-shot but they have rights) and CI doing TPE-DTW (another long-shot).

Though SLC-NRT might not be a big destination for Asian travelers, it is a hub with access to the west, midwest and mountain states. DL can maintain its inherited dominance as the US carrier to Japan, increase yield and give passenger even more options.

I think there is a long-term strategy with this move that will result in a major shift in how DL/NW works in Asia.

PIT-CDG....same thing. If DL increases regional options and some mainline to PIT, they have a secondary option for connecting to their European Partner. And with their new agreement with AF/KL they will have a firm hold on the Trans-Atlantic Market and transfers onward. That said...don't think it will be sustained for more than 2 years.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineDispatchguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1249 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3967 times:



Quoting 7324ever (Reply 16):
Does the 757 have the range to do this route without restrictions?

Easily......westbounds might be a bit tight regarding the north atlantic winds aloft, but eastbounds will be very easy...



Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3007 posts, RR: 27
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3850 times:



Quoting Centrair (Reply 19):
it is a hub with access to the west, midwest and mountain states

It's a growing hub that provides access to basically all major ports of DL nation-wide! Not just the west.

Aeroflot777


User currently offlineDavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3830 times:



Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 4):
I believe they're taking over from Air France, basically the route needed to be downgraded and of course DL have the 757 and this is basically the strategy NW has used from AMS... same thing by the looks of things.

As pointed out, this JV was PHL -- CDG. So is JFK -- CDG if I remember correctly.

That said, suck up the subsidy. I doubt it will last past that, but it might (and I could win the lottery...OK, possible...but).

It will depend if there is enough $$ to justify the route. I doubt it, but....

Quoting MastaHanky (Reply 12):
Most of A.net was surprised to see SLC-CDG stick around, but I felt pretty confident in it. I don't have the same confidence in SLC-NRT, but I'm willing to be surprised.

I wonder what connections are being made INTO SLC to justify the route. perhaps there are enough connections/biz traffic to make it happen.

Further, it could be also a flight that will be a Nonstop to Japan, but not continue on (as other flight numbers did).


Good luck to DL. I hope it works.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10422 posts, RR: 14
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3789 times:

What hasn't been brought up in this talk about the SLC-CDG/NRT routes is the possibility of O&D traffic generated by both the ski industry and the LDS Church. As the ski resorts in Utah become more and more well known, more and more people will go there as opposed to DEN. They already do, although it's probably more domestic at this time. The LDS Church has their training facility for the missionaries nearby and those people have to travel to their destinations overseas, somehow. Connections thru CDG to most of Europe are one way. The same could be said of the missionaries going to Asia.


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineSlcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3457 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3699 times:

I think SLC-NRT will work for Delta

Does anyone know is SLC-CDG is sold with a reduced amount of seats in the Summer?


25 Mayor : I believe it is, but I wonder if they'll try a 763 with winglets on this route and maybe alleviate this problem?
26 SLCUT2777 : LDS Church senior leadership and missionary passenger loads really aren't enough O&D to justify SLC and are just a smaller drop in the bucket of tech
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