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What's The Deal With ANC?  
User currently offlineDLSLC From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 88 posts, RR: 1
Posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3759 times:

I'm sure all you people that love to get angry at others for posting irrelevent posts will make your way on here, but it's okay.
So I was just wondering why ANC is such a large cargo hub for UPS/FedEx and many other cargo airlines froun around the world. I understand it is probably a great place to meet in the middle between US and Asia possibly, but is it really that big of a difference in miles between lets say HKG and SEA versus HKG and ANC?
Maybe that doesn't make sense, but I'm just wondering why many of the carriers dont go directly from Asia-Mainland US or vis versa, instead stopping up in ANC.
Thanks.

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineTb727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1597 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3710 times:

They do it to carry more freight. Most freight carriers charge by weight of the freight, the more weight, the more money you can make. Most freight haulers base their business on high volumes of freight at low yields. They don't make a ton of money but the planes are going to be full.

Kalitta Air for example actually stops in Khabarovsk, Russia out of HKG on the 747 classics prior to going to ANC. No legs are more than 2500 miles from HKG to ORD allowing a lot of freight to be carried.



Too lazy to work, too scared to steal!
User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 79
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3688 times:



Quoting DLSLC (Thread starter):
I understand it is probably a great place to meet in the middle between US and Asia possibly, but is it really that big of a difference in miles between lets say HKG and SEA versus HKG and ANC?

It's about 1500 miles more to go to SEA. The fuel to go that extra distance is all cargo weight that you can't carry. The maximum money for a freighter is, generally, to load it up to MZFW, then load enough fuel to get to a convenient midpoint. ANC happens to be right in the sweet spot for that midpoint for the northern Pacific Rim.

Tom.


User currently offlineKE7JFF From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3611 times:

On top of that, ANC has plenty of room for operations while SEA really isn't the best spot for cargo ops.

User currently offlineLuvaulter From United States of America, joined May 2006, 46 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3532 times:

Also the NOPAC routes (fixed airways) run anc to Japan. It's real easy to make that the start/stop point seeing as it is on the end of the track. Using SEA you have to fight the passenger traffic on the PACOTS (flex tracks that published daily ones one set eastbound and on one set westbound). And the fact that its more distance and more distance equals more fuel

User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3522 times:

Another vital factor is the way ANC is setup under US Customs laws, which allows carriers to move cargo from one aircraft to another without having to go through customs.

Also when considering travel, you have to use a great circle map program, not a flat map

VHHH-KSEA - 5,648 nm
http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=v...STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=&MAP-STYLE=

VHHH-PANC-KSEA - 5674 nm
http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=v...E=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=

Stopping at ANC adds less than 30 nm to the great circle flight distance, and as noted above the ability to use a fuel stop means they can carry several extra tons of cargo rather than fuel.

[Edited 2009-05-25 21:41:20]

User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5822 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3358 times:

And here's something most people don't know:
We have VERY CHEAP FUEL.
We're talking CHEAP.

At one point, the cargo carrier I worked for here at ANC told me that out of their entire worldwide system, we had the cheapest fuel.

That makes a difference.

Unfortunately, we've also got a dozen volcanoes within a thousand miles..... but hey.


User currently offlineCosmicCruiser From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2255 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3310 times:

Way back in the 80s we used to fly PDX-NRT and quess what, we would t/o and fly north past ANC and join the NOPAC routes. Long day.

User currently offlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15744 posts, RR: 27
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3231 times:

It is a convenient fuel stop for freighters going to Asia and, though it may not seem like it, ANC is centrally located. I read that something like 90% of the world's population is within 9 hours flying time of ANC or something like that.


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9381 posts, RR: 29
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3214 times:

It is more than that. It is a great hub to sort freight from all points in the US to all points in the far east.

FX and UPS can schedule freighters from their east coast, midwest and west coast hubs to ANC with flights continuing to all hub destinations in the FE and shuffle the pre-loaded pallets at ANC from one flight to another.

A flight originating from EWR going to TPE also has pallets for NRT HKG BEJ or whatever on board. These are re-loaded at ANC to the flights going to these destinations, the empty positions of the EWR flights are filled up with pallets coming in from MEM IND OAK, just to give some example.


I don't know the FX or UPS operations there, but they could even sort loose cargo that wwy, or break down, sort and re-load pallets.



Quoting Tb727 (Reply 1):
Kalitta Air for example actually stops in Khabarovsk, Russia out of HKG on the 747 classics prior to going to ANC. No legs are more than 2500 miles from HKG to ORD allowing a lot of freight to be carried.

thes old critters could not carry the max payload going N/S, thats why they have to stop at KHH on the west bound flights



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25338 posts, RR: 22
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2997 times:

ANC has two big advantages for cargo:

1. A waiver from the usual U.S. customs rules that permit cargo to be trans-shipped between international and domestic flights without clearing customs until arrival at the final destinations.

2. It's location almost on the great circle route between most points in Asia and most points in North America.

http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freight/frei...s/docs/04factsfigures/table2_8.htm


User currently offlineRamprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1537 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2951 times:



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 6):
And here's something most people don't know:
We have VERY CHEAP FUEL.
We're talking CHEAP.

At one point, the cargo carrier I worked for here at ANC told me that out of their entire worldwide system, we had the cheapest fuel.

That makes a difference.

The fuel in PDX must be cheaper though. We (United) have the Air China Cargo maintenance contract here in PDX. When Mt. Redoubt volcano erupted, China Air Cargo flew their Planes straight to PDX. Then they decided to use PDX as a transfer point rather then ANC because they said the fuel was cheaper here then in ANC.


User currently offlineDLSLC From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 88 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2832 times:

Hey thanks everyone for the information, it was helpful to me because I know very little about ANC operations.
Oh and by the way, I was just using SEA as an example, not literally.
Thanks!
DLSLC


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2810 times:

Up until 2007, ANC was the 3rd busiest airport in the world by freight movement. In 2008, it dropped to 5th busiest with PVG and ICN taking 3rd and 4th place respectively.


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9381 posts, RR: 29
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 2686 times:



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 10):
. A waiver from the usual U.S. customs rules that permit cargo to be trans-shipped between international and domestic flights without clearing customs until arrival at the final destinations.

That happens in a bonded area. The flight coming in from the FE conttinuing to a UPS or FX hub in mainland US is still a part of an international flight. As mentioned before, I do not know the ops there, but with today's ID systems, the contiinuating flight must not even be sterile., I don't see any harm if a domestic palett is loaded together with international paletts on such flight. Each and every shipment is clearly IDd by the awb number, customs has full access to that information in the carriers systems. Besides, there is a system of pre-clearance where goods are already released while in transit.

As an example, freight arriving from third countries at the main UPS sorting hub CGN ride with domestc EU shipments even in the same ULD to the final destination.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
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