SRforever From Switzerland, joined Dec 2006, 129 posts, RR: 2 Posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5815 times:
Hi all
I was wondering where I could find out about how many cabin crews are required per aircraft type / number of pax and what the working hours restrictions are.
The following expample left me puzzled.
A M90 with 166 seats flies the following route and requires 2 seats out of the 166 as crew rest:
GVA-SSH-HRG-GVA 1635-2110/2150-2225/2315-0410 UTC
A 752 with 209 seats flies the following route and requires 8 seats out of the 209 as crew rest:
ZRH-SSH-HRG-GVA 1705-2120/2210-2245/2345-0430 UTC
The routes and schedules are almost identical, the 752 has only about 25% more seats but requires four times as much crew rest seats.
Bx737 From Ireland, joined Sep 2001, 641 posts, RR: 4 Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5806 times:
The legal requirement is one cabin crew per fifty seats, so legally the MD90 would need 4 crew for 166pax and the 752 would need 5 crew. The airlines in question may have agreements with their respective crews over crewing levels and rest requirements on board the aircraft.
Qqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2198 posts, RR: 14 Reply 4, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5688 times:
As has been stated, with the exception of Australia, the rule is one F/A per 50 seats, not actual pax. There are exceptions to this, for example, the 777 has a minimum crew of eight (one per door). At AA, our T7s only hold 247 pax, which you'd think would only require five. However, AA operates their T7s with 11 flight attendants, so often times airlines staff the a/c based on service levels, which exceed the actual number of F/As required by law.
As for the crew rest part, that is up to the company and flight attendants (and their union, if there is one). Those agreements are always separate from law, but will never be less than what the law requires.
The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
LongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4275 posts, RR: 36 Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5679 times:
Quoting Qqflyboy (Reply 4): As has been stated, with the exception of Australia, the rule is one F/A per 50 seats, not actual pax.
And Canada ... it is one F/A per 40 passengers, not seats. The exception in Canada is the CL-65, which was allowed one F/A per 50 passengers/seats, as long as the one F/A was bilingual.
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
SW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6072 posts, RR: 10 Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5665 times:
Quoting LongHauler (Reply 5): And Canada ... it is one F/A per 40 passengers, not seats.
So what happens if the plane is scheduled to have 118 people (3 FA's) and at the last minute 3 people show up and buy tickets?
LongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4275 posts, RR: 36 Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5651 times:
Quoting SW733 (Reply 6): So what happens if the plane is scheduled to have 118 people (3 FA's) and at the last minute 3 people show up and buy tickets?
If the aircraft has more seats than legal with regard to the F/A's then the load is capped. The only time we see this is with the A320 (140 seats) and due to crew shortage it is only staffed to 3 F/A's. The load will be capped at 120 passengers.
This is rare as normally the aircraft are staffed to maximum capacity.
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
XXMHxLHx5LXx From Germany, joined Mar 2007, 49 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5482 times:
Yes. I remember a colleague told me that she was boarding a flight (charter flight DRS to somewhere warm and sunny) with 170 pax and 4 flight attendants. When I flight attendant fell sick the only way to get the flight back to its origin was to bump 20 pax off the flight in order to secure the 1F/A per 50 pax rule.
I think in Germany the law is 1 F/A per passenger as well (not per seat) as I remember boarding a flight where one f/a fainted during the 30min turnaround and the flight still allowed to return to MUC with just one flight attendant. The aircraft involved was a CityLine CRJ with more than 50 seats. (or could they have cheated by "moving" the curtain between business and economy class in order to reduce the available seats to below 50?)
HBJZA From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 376 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5319 times:
Quoting LongHauler (Reply 5): And Canada ... it is one F/A per 40 passengers, not seats. The exception in Canada is the CL-65, which was allowed one F/A per 50 passengers/seats, as long as the one F/A was bilingual.
This rule sounds strange to me. Lets take this example : if on an A330 only 40 pax are on board, a Canadian carrier is authorized to make the plane leave with one F/A ??? If yes, are there seating restrictions like all of them need to be seated near the only F/A ??
The rule of 1 F/A per 50 seats installed, no matter of the Pax figures as long as at least one is on board, make much more sense to me....
M11Stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1205 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5228 times:
Quoting LongHauler (Reply 5):
And Canada ... it is one F/A per 40 passengers, not seats. The exception in Canada is the CL-65, which was allowed one F/A per 50 passengers/seats, as long as the one F/A was bilingual.
This rule sounds strange to me. Lets take this example : if on an A330 only 40 pax are on board, a Canadian carrier is authorized to make the plane leave with one F/A ??? If yes, are there seating restrictions like all of them need to be seated near the only F/A ??
The rule of 1 F/A per 50 seats installed, no matter of the Pax figures as long as at least one is on board, make much more sense to me....
There also has to be a certain number of F/As per cabin zone or pair of exit doors but im not exactly sure how that works. But, no you couldn't operate an A330 with only one F/A with pax spread around the aircraft.
My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
LXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2104 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 5220 times:
Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 11): There also has to be a certain number of F/As per cabin zone or pair of exit doors but im not exactly sure how that works. But, no you couldn't operate an A330 with only one F/A with pax spread around the aircraft.
Firstly there have to be at least enough F/A's on board to be seated during take off and landing next to each exit. For instance on an A330 / A343 of LX this would mean the minimum crew members are 8 as the plane has 8 exits. Especially with smaller aircraft it has to do more with seating for instance if an A321 is equiped with more than 200 seats an additional crew member is requred etc.
LongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4275 posts, RR: 36 Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 5158 times:
Quoting HBJZA (Reply 10): This rule sounds strange to me. Lets take this example : if on an A330 only 40 pax are on board, a Canadian carrier is authorized to make the plane leave with one F/A ??? If yes, are there seating restrictions like all of them need to be seated near the only F/A ??
The rule of 1 F/A per 50 seats installed, no matter of the Pax figures as long as at least one is on board, make much more sense to me....
The 1:40 rule is just the beginning in Canada. Also with the bilingual rule.
As you state it also depends on the aircraft type irrespective of number of seats or passengers.
As an example minimum departure cabin crew for the A321 is 5, even though it only holds 174 passengers. The minimum crew for the B767-300 depends on the door layout, less for the 4 door/4 window version than for the 8 door version!
Then to make matters worse, it is different for boarding passengers than for departure, and the rules change yet again. You can board 1:40 for the A320, A319, E190 but not for the A321. You can board passengers on the A321 with only 4 F/A's but only if the pilots are on board, otherwise you need all 5. On the A320 (for example) you can board passengers with 3, but need the 4th once the 121st passenger enters the aircraft.
But, in all cases, the Canadian rules are safer (ie. more F/A's) than the FAA 1:50 seat rule.
And trust me .. no one in Canada think the CARs make sense!
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
M11Stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1205 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 5084 times:
quote=LXA340,reply=12]Firstly there have to be at least enough F/A's on board to be seated during take off and landing next to each exit.[/quote]That would mean a plane like the A321 has to have 8 F/As which never happens at least in the US and on BA. I think the absolute minimum is one F/A per pair of exit doors.
My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
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