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Minimum Cabin Crew Required, Working Hours?  
User currently onlineSRforever From Switzerland, joined Dec 2006, 129 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8276 times:

Hi all

I was wondering where I could find out about how many cabin crews are required per aircraft type / number of pax and what the working hours restrictions are.

The following expample left me puzzled.

A M90 with 166 seats flies the following route and requires 2 seats out of the 166 as crew rest:

GVA-SSH-HRG-GVA 1635-2110/2150-2225/2315-0410 UTC

A 752 with 209 seats flies the following route and requires 8 seats out of the 209 as crew rest:

ZRH-SSH-HRG-GVA 1705-2120/2210-2245/2345-0430 UTC

The routes and schedules are almost identical, the 752 has only about 25% more seats but requires four times as much crew rest seats.

Can anyone explain this to me?

Cheers
Mark

[Edited 2009-05-26 03:04:42]

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBx737 From Ireland, joined Sep 2001, 686 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8267 times:

The legal requirement is one cabin crew per fifty seats, so legally the MD90 would need 4 crew for 166pax and the 752 would need 5 crew. The airlines in question may have agreements with their respective crews over crewing levels and rest requirements on board the aircraft.

User currently offlineANstar From United Kingdom, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 5294 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8255 times:



Quoting Bx737 (Reply 1):
e legal requirement is one cabin crew per fifty seats,

Depends on the country. Here in Australia it is 1 FA per 36 pax.


User currently offlineThreeFourThree From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 215 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8189 times:

ANstar,
Is that for Australian airlines or any airline flying into Australia?


User currently offlineQqflyboy From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 2296 posts, RR: 13
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8149 times:

As has been stated, with the exception of Australia, the rule is one F/A per 50 seats, not actual pax. There are exceptions to this, for example, the 777 has a minimum crew of eight (one per door). At AA, our T7s only hold 247 pax, which you'd think would only require five. However, AA operates their T7s with 11 flight attendants, so often times airlines staff the a/c based on service levels, which exceed the actual number of F/As required by law.

As for the crew rest part, that is up to the company and flight attendants (and their union, if there is one). Those agreements are always separate from law, but will never be less than what the law requires.



The views expressed are mine alone and do not necessarily reflect my employer’s views.
User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5125 posts, RR: 43
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8140 times:



Quoting Qqflyboy (Reply 4):
As has been stated, with the exception of Australia, the rule is one F/A per 50 seats, not actual pax.

And Canada ... it is one F/A per 40 passengers, not seats. The exception in Canada is the CL-65, which was allowed one F/A per 50 passengers/seats, as long as the one F/A was bilingual.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6361 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8126 times:



Quoting LongHauler (Reply 5):
And Canada ... it is one F/A per 40 passengers, not seats.

So what happens if the plane is scheduled to have 118 people (3 FA's) and at the last minute 3 people show up and buy tickets?


User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5125 posts, RR: 43
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8112 times:



Quoting SW733 (Reply 6):
So what happens if the plane is scheduled to have 118 people (3 FA's) and at the last minute 3 people show up and buy tickets?

If the aircraft has more seats than legal with regard to the F/A's then the load is capped. The only time we see this is with the A320 (140 seats) and due to crew shortage it is only staffed to 3 F/A's. The load will be capped at 120 passengers.

This is rare as normally the aircraft are staffed to maximum capacity.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25838 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 17 hours ago) and read 7956 times:



Quoting ANstar (Reply 2):
Quoting Bx737 (Reply 1):
e legal requirement is one cabin crew per fifty seats,

Depends on the country. Here in Australia it is 1 FA per 36 pax.



Quoting ThreeFourThree (Reply 3):
Is that for Australian airlines or any airline flying into Australia?

The rules applicable to the country where the airline is registered apply.


User currently offlineXXMHxLHx5LXx From Germany, joined Mar 2007, 51 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 16 hours ago) and read 7943 times:

Yes. I remember a colleague told me that she was boarding a flight (charter flight DRS to somewhere warm and sunny) with 170 pax and 4 flight attendants. When I flight attendant fell sick the only way to get the flight back to its origin was to bump 20 pax off the flight in order to secure the 1F/A per 50 pax rule.

I think in Germany the law is 1 F/A per passenger as well (not per seat) as I remember boarding a flight where one f/a fainted during the 30min turnaround and the flight still allowed to return to MUC with just one flight attendant. The aircraft involved was a CityLine CRJ with more than 50 seats. (or could they have cheated by "moving" the curtain between business and economy class in order to reduce the available seats to below 50?)



A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A342 A343 A300 A388 B722 B732 B733 B734 B735 B738 B742 B744 B748 B752 B763 B772 DC-3 DC10 DHC4
User currently offlineHBJZA From Switzerland, joined Jan 2006, 377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7780 times:



Quoting LongHauler (Reply 5):
And Canada ... it is one F/A per 40 passengers, not seats. The exception in Canada is the CL-65, which was allowed one F/A per 50 passengers/seats, as long as the one F/A was bilingual.

This rule sounds strange to me. Lets take this example : if on an A330 only 40 pax are on board, a Canadian carrier is authorized to make the plane leave with one F/A ??? If yes, are there seating restrictions like all of them need to be seated near the only F/A ??
The rule of 1 F/A per 50 seats installed, no matter of the Pax figures as long as at least one is on board, make much more sense to me....


User currently offlineM11Stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7689 times:



Quoting HBJZA (Reply 10):


Quoting LongHauler (Reply 5):
And Canada ... it is one F/A per 40 passengers, not seats. The exception in Canada is the CL-65, which was allowed one F/A per 50 passengers/seats, as long as the one F/A was bilingual.

This rule sounds strange to me. Lets take this example : if on an A330 only 40 pax are on board, a Canadian carrier is authorized to make the plane leave with one F/A ??? If yes, are there seating restrictions like all of them need to be seated near the only F/A ??
The rule of 1 F/A per 50 seats installed, no matter of the Pax figures as long as at least one is on board, make much more sense to me....

There also has to be a certain number of F/As per cabin zone or pair of exit doors but im not exactly sure how that works. But, no you couldn't operate an A330 with only one F/A with pax spread around the aircraft.



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlineLXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2127 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7681 times:



Quoting M11Stephen (Reply 11):
There also has to be a certain number of F/As per cabin zone or pair of exit doors but im not exactly sure how that works. But, no you couldn't operate an A330 with only one F/A with pax spread around the aircraft.

Firstly there have to be at least enough F/A's on board to be seated during take off and landing next to each exit. For instance on an A330 / A343 of LX this would mean the minimum crew members are 8 as the plane has 8 exits. Especially with smaller aircraft it has to do more with seating for instance if an A321 is equiped with more than 200 seats an additional crew member is requred etc.


User currently offlineLongHauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5125 posts, RR: 43
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 7619 times:



Quoting HBJZA (Reply 10):
This rule sounds strange to me. Lets take this example : if on an A330 only 40 pax are on board, a Canadian carrier is authorized to make the plane leave with one F/A ??? If yes, are there seating restrictions like all of them need to be seated near the only F/A ??
The rule of 1 F/A per 50 seats installed, no matter of the Pax figures as long as at least one is on board, make much more sense to me....

The 1:40 rule is just the beginning in Canada. Also with the bilingual rule.

As you state it also depends on the aircraft type irrespective of number of seats or passengers.

As an example minimum departure cabin crew for the A321 is 5, even though it only holds 174 passengers. The minimum crew for the B767-300 depends on the door layout, less for the 4 door/4 window version than for the 8 door version!

Then to make matters worse, it is different for boarding passengers than for departure, and the rules change yet again. You can board 1:40 for the A320, A319, E190 but not for the A321. You can board passengers on the A321 with only 4 F/A's but only if the pilots are on board, otherwise you need all 5. On the A320 (for example) you can board passengers with 3, but need the 4th once the 121st passenger enters the aircraft.

But, in all cases, the Canadian rules are safer (ie. more F/A's) than the FAA 1:50 seat rule.

And trust me .. no one in Canada think the CARs make sense!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineM11Stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7545 times:

quote=LXA340,reply=12]Firstly there have to be at least enough F/A's on board to be seated during take off and landing next to each exit.[/quote]That would mean a plane like the A321 has to have 8 F/As which never happens at least in the US and on BA. I think the absolute minimum is one F/A per pair of exit doors.


My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
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