Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
LH's Plans For The Combined LH/LX/OS?  
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1618 posts, RR: 2
Posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 7524 times:

Is it like AF/KLM in that all 3 (not to mention LH Italia now as well) will continue to operate under their own colors for the forseeable future, or will LH eventually roll them all into one combined airline?

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 7497 times:

I think the brands are so strong - the only way they'd ever do it is just to roll it into the LH brand similar to what they did with LHI. Figure on LH-Osterreich, LH-Schweiz, LH-Belgische (Brussels) and LH-UK (bmi).

I think keeping each brand the same works better though and is more likely.

As for fleet - well my crystal ball says A350s. LOTS of them. Big grin

I can see BD, SN and OS change to A358s, LX change to A359s and LH operating all three types eventually.

Happy days.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7088 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 1 week ago) and read 7332 times:



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
As for fleet - well my crystal ball says A350s. LOTS of them. 

I don' t think so, I see a mixed 787/A350 fleet.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7219 times:



Quoting Columba (Reply 2):


Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
As for fleet - well my crystal ball says A350s. LOTS of them.

I don' t think so, I see a mixed 787/A350 fleet.

Yes - i think some 787s will find their way in as well. I've been saying that for years. I still think it will be more A350s than 787s but they'll end up getting both. I reckon LH arent done expanding either - they'll end up buying a couple more airlines before they make a decision on their LH split.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7223 times:



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
Quoting Columba (Reply 2):


Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
As for fleet - well my crystal ball says A350s. LOTS of them.

I don' t think so, I see a mixed 787/A350 fleet.

Yes - i think some 787s will find their way in as well. I've been saying that for years. I still think it will be more A350s than 787s but they'll end up getting both. I reckon LH arent done expanding either - they'll end up buying a couple more airlines before they make a decision on their LH split.

I think BA will go for a split, IB will go A350, AF/KL will go 787, AZ will go 787 eventually, VS will go A350, SK will split, AY will stay A350, TP will stay A350, LO will be 787, OK will be 787, SU will split, and TK will split.

Plenty of joy for both stables I'd say.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineAirBuffalo From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7205 times:

I dont know the corporate culture at OS, but I think LH would have to drag LX kicking and screaming into a more-streamlined co-branding scheme. A bit too much swiss pride irked calling LX "Lufthansa Schweiz" or something (and i'm sure LH knows that).

AF/KLM is probably a good example from the identity standpoint (distinctive planes, websites, etc), but its orgins are fundamentally different than LX/LH ... LX was never an equal partner.


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5569 posts, RR: 36
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7187 times:

I think LH will definitely keep SWISS as an own company (it is not only a brand, but a company with its own management, who can decide many things on its own, although at end LH has the last word as 100% share-holder). With a "LH Switzerland" they would lose a lot of origin passengers in Switzerland because Swiss people are not (let's say it diplomatically) too keen on Germans. Now they still have a bit the feeling of a Swiss airline though LX belonging to a German company.

User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7169 times:



Quoting ZRH (Reply 6):
With a "LH Switzerland" they would lose a lot of origin passengers in Switzerland because Swiss people are not (let's say it diplomatically) too keen on Germans.

To be fair you could say the same about the Italians, Belgians and Brits. In fact the only people who like Germany enough to rename their national carrier might be the Austrians, but even then its tenuous. I bet they keep it as it is.

I think one huge bloated "Europe Airlines" is a daft idea.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5569 posts, RR: 36
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 7117 times:

I actually see no need for a sole company or brand. The SWISS network and routing is completely integrated into the LH network and in most other things (check-in, lounges, ticketing etc) they work closely together.

User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7025 times:



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 4):
AZ will go 787 eventually

AZ has already ordered 12 A358 + 12 options.


User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7007 times:



Quoting Columba (Reply 2):
I don' t think so, I see a mixed 787/A350 fleet.

That would be a change for Lufthansa given that they have not ordered any of the 737NG, 757, 767 or 777.


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7003 times:



Quoting Janmnastami (Reply 9):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 4):
AZ will go 787 eventually

AZ has already ordered 12 A358 + 12 options.

I didnt know that - interesting.

I have my doubts as to whether they ever be delivered. I still think the 787 is a better fit for them to be honest.



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6962 times:



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 11):
I didnt know that - interesting.

I have my doubts as to whether they ever be delivered. I still think the 787 is a better fit for them to be honest.

Consider that AZ has also ordered 12 A330 + 8 options and first deliveries should begin next year.


User currently offlineZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5569 posts, RR: 36
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6961 times:



Quoting Eghansen (Reply 10):
That would be a change for Lufthansa given that they have not ordered any of the 737NG, 757, 767 or 777.

Nevertheless they are still a Boeing customer with the 747-8. And they flew many types 707, 727, 737 classic (still), 747 (still). So LH will definitely order what will fit best for them; 350, 787 or both.


User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6909 times:



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7):
To be fair you could say the same about the Italians, Belgians and Brits. In fact the only people who like Germany enough to rename their national carrier might be the Austrians, but even then its tenuous. I bet they keep it as it is.

You have o idea about the Austrians....
 Big grin


User currently offlineAdicool From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 6874 times:



Quoting JoFMO (Reply 14):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7):
To be fair you could say the same about the Italians, Belgians and Brits. In fact the only people who like Germany enough to rename their national carrier might be the Austrians, but even then its tenuous. I bet they keep it as it is.

You have o idea about the Austrians....
 

Is there any people in Europe that likes us Germans? Why don't the Belgians like us? I guess Scandinavia doesn't dislike us too much, right? Anyways, the countries with the biggest resentiments within Europe against the Germans are definitly the UK, Italy and the Netherlands!


User currently offlineJanmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6827 times:



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7):
To be fair you could say the same about the Italians

I disagree, Italians are xenophile, we have a natural affection to foreign people, places and companies (the national favourite sport is not soccer, it's lamenting about our country Big grin ).


User currently offlineRabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1018 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6771 times:



Quoting Adicool (Reply 15):
Is there any people in Europe that likes us Germans? Why don't the Belgians like us? I guess Scandinavia doesn't dislike us too much, right? Anyways, the countries with the biggest resentiments within Europe against the Germans are definitly the UK, Italy and the Netherlands!

I know this is terribly OT, but I have to disagree. I never had the feeling that Italians have big resentments. To the contrary. Big resentments you I experienced here: Netherlands, Poland, UK, Czech Republik. At least according to my experiences.


User currently offlineWorldrider From Switzerland, joined Nov 2007, 302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6740 times:



Quoting Adicool (Reply 15):
Is there any people in Europe that likes us Germans? Why don't the Belgians like us? I guess Scandinavia doesn't dislike us too much, right? Anyways, the countries with the biggest resentiments within Europe against the Germans are definitly the UK, Italy and the Netherlands!

i travel a lot around the globe and see that germans are the least "disliked" in town , also people that say they don't like germans are usually "old minded" , stuck in the IIWW times, brainwashed, usually conservative...


User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1618 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6585 times:

What is the Belgian airline that LH now owns? I must have missed that one.

User currently offlineOta1 From Germany, joined Apr 2008, 399 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6563 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!



Quoting LHCVG (Reply 19):
What is the Belgian airline that LH now owns? I must have missed that one.

Brussels Airlines will be owned by LH once they gain government (EC) approval.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25871 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6547 times:



Quoting LHCVG (Reply 19):
What is the Belgian airline that LH now owns? I must have missed that one.

LH is in the process of acquiring a 45% interest in SN (Brussels Airlines), which I believe is still awaiting EU approval, with the intent to acquire the remaining 55% over the next few years.
http://konzern.lufthansa.com/en/html...en/app/show/en/2008/09/857/HOM&s=0
http://konzern.lufthansa.com/en/html/ueber_uns/brussels_airlines/


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4835 posts, RR: 44
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6516 times:



Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 4):
I think BA will go for a split, IB will go A350, AF/KL will go 787, AZ will go 787 eventually, VS will go A350, SK will split, AY will stay A350, TP will stay A350, LO will be 787, OK will be 787, SU will split, and TK will split.

Plenty of joy for both stables I'd say.

Right on and I would bet OS opting for a fleet of B 788s and B 789s which would entirely replace their B 763ER and B 772ER fleet as well.

LX though looks like a certain A 358 customer which would replace both its fleet of A 333s and A 343s in the long term.

LH too looks like they would prefer getting A 358s replacing their A 333 and A 343 fleet in the future and the A 359 replacing their A 346s.


User currently offlineCARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 836 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6211 times:

Like i mentioned about a year ago I don't see any A350s in the LH Group.

With the A380 & B748i (& B744) there is no place for an A351 in the LH Group as it has nearly the same size as the 744 & 748 and i think LH wouldn't like buying the A350 if they could not utilize the whole family.

In my opinion LH will go the 787 way.

What looks now like a company going all Airbus could be a company with a 50/50 mix in 5 to 8 years.

Mainline:
A380
B748 (& perhaps newer B744s)
B787-10
B787-9
B787-8 (for the smaller airlines in LH Group)
B787-3 (if reworked & build for Europe, too, as A300 replacement)
A320 series (GTF?)

Regional:
E-Jets
C-Series


Regarding the topic, i think all airlines will be staying what they are now, we won't see many Lufthansas flying through the world. But expect the fleets to be streamlined. Not 787s for OS and A350s for LX.

[Edited 2009-05-26 15:48:22]

User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7088 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5748 times:

Quoting Eghansen (Reply 10):
That would be a change for Lufthansa given that they have not ordered any of the 737NG, 757, 767 or 777.

They have them with their subsidiaries Condor has 757/767s (they even carry LH' s customer
code 757-330s, 767-330s).
Aero Logic has 777Fs and Sun Express a joint venture between LH and Turkish has 737NGs.

Quoting CARST (Reply 23):
With the A380 & B748i (& B744) there is no place for an A351 in the LH Group as it has nearly the same size as the 744 & 748 and i think LH wouldn't like buying the A350 if they could not utilize the whole family.

LH has said a while back that they have no interest in the A350-1000 (so far) because it is lacking range.

I am very sure that we see a 787 order by LH but I am not quite sure if LH mainline will see it. Like with the CSeries, order by LH operated by LX.

[Edited 2009-05-26 19:00:02]


It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
25 MUCFLYER : One of the advantages in the whole Lufthansa Group for its members is to keep their own identities. LH don't want to touch it. The passenger acceptanc
26 MadameConcorde : I am a frequent client on the 3 airlines. I hope they will keep their own identities. I like the 3 of them for different reasons. They are good effic
27 INNflyer : RE National pride in Austria: Concerns were not about the debt, bad service or selling OS to the big brother LH in Germany; the most important questio
28 Futurestar68 : I'd say it has nothing to do with wether we like the Germans or not, if they renamed OS into LH-Austria, the name alone would point out that this air
29 Glareskin : Not true with Netherlands except during a soccer match Germany vs The Netherlands..
30 Burkhard : Giving up the names "Swiss" and "Austrian" would be burning of billions of $ - these brands will remain. And they will even run a limited internal com
31 TW741 : I do not see mentioned airlines operating under one brand, LH's concept is different. National/regional identities are kept. Also each airline must op
32 Seemyseems : Really? Are these the AP orders?
33 B707forever : No way will LH rebrand the others with their name and logo! Perhaps because I'm 'middle-aged' and had two WWII veterans in the family but I just don't
34 Babybus : I completely agree with that break down. Although I'm not sure OK could buy anything. That's a surprise. I wonder how long they will hold on to them
35 DIJKKIJK : If the Swiss and the Austrians are so keen on keeping their national symbols and pride, they should have run their airlines better. LH saved the Swis
36 Columba : They have a kong history of ordering paper planes e.g. 737, A310, A320, A340, 747-8I CSeries etc...
37 Janmnastami : Yes, they were orders of AP: 12 A358 + 12 options 12 A332 + 8 options 70 A320 + 20 options (31 already delivered).
38 TW741 : aircraft still show "KLM" and not "Air France Pays-Bas". this is my understanding of previous statements in this thread for "keeping the identity of
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Piedmont's Plans For The Future? posted Wed Feb 1 2006 21:58:29 by AC773
AA's Plans For The 757 posted Tue Jan 24 2006 20:42:02 by AA777
Any Plans For The New US Airways Express? posted Sun Sep 4 2005 13:30:05 by AkjetBlue
Headwinds Buffet Boeing's Plans For The 777-200LR posted Mon Jul 25 2005 15:17:10 by MidnightMike
New Airport Plans For The NYC Area posted Sun May 19 2002 23:02:48 by Bucks918
Virgin Atlantic; Plans For The Future posted Sat Dec 23 2000 03:40:20 by SXM727
LH´s Next Longhaul Order Also For LX,OS SN? posted Sat Nov 15 2008 05:30:57 by Columba
Future Of PrivatAir Operations For LH And LX posted Fri Jan 11 2008 16:39:53 by CX288
LH Has New Nick Name For The A380 posted Mon Nov 27 2006 13:16:10 by Columba
LH Plans For MUC? posted Sat Oct 8 2005 14:29:14 by RJ100