LHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1367 posts, RR: 1 Posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6214 times:
Is it like AF/KLM in that all 3 (not to mention LH Italia now as well) will continue to operate under their own colors for the forseeable future, or will LH eventually roll them all into one combined airline?
CHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 63 Reply 1, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 6187 times:
I think the brands are so strong - the only way they'd ever do it is just to roll it into the LH brand similar to what they did with LHI. Figure on LH-Osterreich, LH-Schweiz, LH-Belgische (Brussels) and LH-UK (bmi).
I think keeping each brand the same works better though and is more likely.
As for fleet - well my crystal ball says A350s. LOTS of them.
I can see BD, SN and OS change to A358s, LX change to A359s and LH operating all three types eventually.
Happy days.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
As for fleet - well my crystal ball says A350s. LOTS of them.
I don' t think so, I see a mixed 787/A350 fleet.
Yes - i think some 787s will find their way in as well. I've been saying that for years. I still think it will be more A350s than 787s but they'll end up getting both. I reckon LH arent done expanding either - they'll end up buying a couple more airlines before they make a decision on their LH split.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 1):
As for fleet - well my crystal ball says A350s. LOTS of them.
I don' t think so, I see a mixed 787/A350 fleet.
Yes - i think some 787s will find their way in as well. I've been saying that for years. I still think it will be more A350s than 787s but they'll end up getting both. I reckon LH arent done expanding either - they'll end up buying a couple more airlines before they make a decision on their LH split.
I think BA will go for a split, IB will go A350, AF/KL will go 787, AZ will go 787 eventually, VS will go A350, SK will split, AY will stay A350, TP will stay A350, LO will be 787, OK will be 787, SU will split, and TK will split.
Plenty of joy for both stables I'd say.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
AirBuffalo From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 136 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5895 times:
I dont know the corporate culture at OS, but I think LH would have to drag LX kicking and screaming into a more-streamlined co-branding scheme. A bit too much swiss pride irked calling LX "Lufthansa Schweiz" or something (and i'm sure LH knows that).
AF/KLM is probably a good example from the identity standpoint (distinctive planes, websites, etc), but its orgins are fundamentally different than LX/LH ... LX was never an equal partner.
ZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5534 posts, RR: 40 Reply 6, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5877 times:
I think LH will definitely keep SWISS as an own company (it is not only a brand, but a company with its own management, who can decide many things on its own, although at end LH has the last word as 100% share-holder). With a "LH Switzerland" they would lose a lot of origin passengers in Switzerland because Swiss people are not (let's say it diplomatically) too keen on Germans. Now they still have a bit the feeling of a Swiss airline though LX belonging to a German company.
CHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 63 Reply 7, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5859 times:
Quoting ZRH (Reply 6): With a "LH Switzerland" they would lose a lot of origin passengers in Switzerland because Swiss people are not (let's say it diplomatically) too keen on Germans.
To be fair you could say the same about the Italians, Belgians and Brits. In fact the only people who like Germany enough to rename their national carrier might be the Austrians, but even then its tenuous. I bet they keep it as it is.
I think one huge bloated "Europe Airlines" is a daft idea.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
ZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5534 posts, RR: 40 Reply 8, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5807 times:
I actually see no need for a sole company or brand. The SWISS network and routing is completely integrated into the LH network and in most other things (check-in, lounges, ticketing etc) they work closely together.
ZRH From Switzerland, joined Nov 1999, 5534 posts, RR: 40 Reply 13, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5651 times:
Quoting Eghansen (Reply 10): That would be a change for Lufthansa given that they have not ordered any of the 737NG, 757, 767 or 777.
Nevertheless they are still a Boeing customer with the 747-8. And they flew many types 707, 727, 737 classic (still), 747 (still). So LH will definitely order what will fit best for them; 350, 787 or both.
JoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5599 times:
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7): To be fair you could say the same about the Italians, Belgians and Brits. In fact the only people who like Germany enough to rename their national carrier might be the Austrians, but even then its tenuous. I bet they keep it as it is.
Adicool From Netherlands, joined Apr 2007, 261 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5564 times:
Quoting JoFMO (Reply 14): Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7):
To be fair you could say the same about the Italians, Belgians and Brits. In fact the only people who like Germany enough to rename their national carrier might be the Austrians, but even then its tenuous. I bet they keep it as it is.
You have o idea about the Austrians....
Is there any people in Europe that likes us Germans? Why don't the Belgians like us? I guess Scandinavia doesn't dislike us too much, right? Anyways, the countries with the biggest resentiments within Europe against the Germans are definitly the UK, Italy and the Netherlands!
Janmnastami From Italy, joined Apr 2008, 824 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5517 times:
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7): To be fair you could say the same about the Italians
I disagree, Italians are xenophile, we have a natural affection to foreign people, places and companies (the national favourite sport is not soccer, it's lamenting about our country ).
Rabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 993 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5461 times:
Quoting Adicool (Reply 15): Is there any people in Europe that likes us Germans? Why don't the Belgians like us? I guess Scandinavia doesn't dislike us too much, right? Anyways, the countries with the biggest resentiments within Europe against the Germans are definitly the UK, Italy and the Netherlands!
I know this is terribly OT, but I have to disagree. I never had the feeling that Italians have big resentments. To the contrary. Big resentments you I experienced here: Netherlands, Poland, UK, Czech Republik. At least according to my experiences.
Worldrider From Switzerland, joined Nov 2007, 267 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5430 times:
Quoting Adicool (Reply 15): Is there any people in Europe that likes us Germans? Why don't the Belgians like us? I guess Scandinavia doesn't dislike us too much, right? Anyways, the countries with the biggest resentiments within Europe against the Germans are definitly the UK, Italy and the Netherlands!
i travel a lot around the globe and see that germans are the least "disliked" in town , also people that say they don't like germans are usually "old minded" , stuck in the IIWW times, brainwashed, usually conservative...
Behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4439 posts, RR: 43 Reply 22, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5206 times:
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 4): I think BA will go for a split, IB will go A350, AF/KL will go 787, AZ will go 787 eventually, VS will go A350, SK will split, AY will stay A350, TP will stay A350, LO will be 787, OK will be 787, SU will split, and TK will split.
Plenty of joy for both stables I'd say.
Right on and I would bet OS opting for a fleet of B 788s and B 789s which would entirely replace their B 763ER and B 772ER fleet as well.
LX though looks like a certain A 358 customer which would replace both its fleet of A 333s and A 343s in the long term.
LH too looks like they would prefer getting A 358s replacing their A 333 and A 343 fleet in the future and the A 359 replacing their A 346s.
CARST From Germany, joined Jul 2006, 705 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4901 times:
Like i mentioned about a year ago I don't see any A350s in the LH Group.
With the A380 & B748i (& B744) there is no place for an A351 in the LH Group as it has nearly the same size as the 744 & 748 and i think LH wouldn't like buying the A350 if they could not utilize the whole family.
In my opinion LH will go the 787 way.
What looks now like a company going all Airbus could be a company with a 50/50 mix in 5 to 8 years.
Mainline:
A380
B748 (& perhaps newer B744s)
B787-10
B787-9
B787-8 (for the smaller airlines in LH Group)
B787-3 (if reworked & build for Europe, too, as A300 replacement)
A320 series (GTF?)
Regional:
E-Jets
C-Series
Regarding the topic, i think all airlines will be staying what they are now, we won't see many Lufthansas flying through the world. But expect the fleets to be streamlined. Not 787s for OS and A350s for LX.
Columba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 6798 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (3 years 11 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4438 times:
Quoting Eghansen (Reply 10): That would be a change for Lufthansa given that they have not ordered any of the 737NG, 757, 767 or 777.
They have them with their subsidiaries Condor has 757/767s (they even carry LH' s customer
code 757-330s, 767-330s).
Aero Logic has 777Fs and Sun Express a joint venture between LH and Turkish has 737NGs.
Quoting CARST (Reply 23): With the A380 & B748i (& B744) there is no place for an A351 in the LH Group as it has nearly the same size as the 744 & 748 and i think LH wouldn't like buying the A350 if they could not utilize the whole family.
LH has said a while back that they have no interest in the A350-1000 (so far) because it is lacking range.
I am very sure that we see a 787 order by LH but I am not quite sure if LH mainline will see it. Like with the CSeries, order by LH operated by LX.
[Edited 2009-05-26 19:00:02]
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
25 MUCFLYER: One of the advantages in the whole Lufthansa Group for its members is to keep their own identities. LH don't want to touch it. The passenger acceptanc
26 MadameConcorde: I am a frequent client on the 3 airlines. I hope they will keep their own identities. I like the 3 of them for different reasons. They are good effic
27 INNflyer: RE National pride in Austria: Concerns were not about the debt, bad service or selling OS to the big brother LH in Germany; the most important questio
28 Futurestar68: I'd say it has nothing to do with wether we like the Germans or not, if they renamed OS into LH-Austria, the name alone would point out that this air
29 Glareskin: Not true with Netherlands except during a soccer match Germany vs The Netherlands..
30 Burkhard: Giving up the names "Swiss" and "Austrian" would be burning of billions of $ - these brands will remain. And they will even run a limited internal com
31 TW741: I do not see mentioned airlines operating under one brand, LH's concept is different. National/regional identities are kept. Also each airline must op
33 B707forever: No way will LH rebrand the others with their name and logo! Perhaps because I'm 'middle-aged' and had two WWII veterans in the family but I just don't
34 Babybus: I completely agree with that break down. Although I'm not sure OK could buy anything. That's a surprise. I wonder how long they will hold on to them
35 DIJKKIJK: If the Swiss and the Austrians are so keen on keeping their national symbols and pride, they should have run their airlines better. LH saved the Swis
36 Columba: They have a kong history of ordering paper planes e.g. 737, A310, A320, A340, 747-8I CSeries etc...
37 Janmnastami: Yes, they were orders of AP: 12 A358 + 12 options 12 A332 + 8 options 70 A320 + 20 options (31 already delivered).
38 TW741: aircraft still show "KLM" and not "Air France Pays-Bas". this is my understanding of previous statements in this thread for "keeping the identity of
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