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Unusual JFK Landing Pattern Today  
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4567 times:

Landings on 13R and 4R, Departures on 13L during the early afternoon....I haven't been out to JFK much recently, but I haven't seen this setup before...Is this common now?

On a side note, Delta needs to seriously update some of the maps in Terminal 3--several have the old, old livery, and have references to Sabena...these are definitely dated maps!

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 4538 times:

Been doing that few times since mon. I work at T-5 on the ramp and they have been switching runways like crazy lately but the setup you've mentioned above they have been using a few times this week so far and I think Fri of last week. I work Mon-Fri so i don't know whats going on, on the weekends. I'm guessing you can getting down faster with that config. Just a guess here, I don't pretend like I work in the tower, just a ramprat.


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineN623JB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 703 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 4350 times:

I think they were using 13L too..I saw a bunch of planes flying/Jetting overhead today, which included some company A320s/E190s(B6), Jet Airways,Korean Air(B747),AA 757


Bring JetBlue To Mexico City! (TLC and/or MEX would be great)
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21530 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 4302 times:



Quoting Contrails15 (Reply 1):
I'm guessing you can getting down faster with that config.

It's basically the land 13L and 22L, depart 13R config, except with the arrivals on 4R instead of 22L. There are restrictions on departing from 13R while landing on 4R due to wake turbulence concerns (just like there are restrictions on departing from 13L while using 22L).

It would have the same issue of a potential conflict between a 4R go-around and a 13L departure as the other configuration has the issue of a conflict between a 22L go-around and a 13R departure. Last I heard, they were waiting until the 22L arrival is firmly on the ground before launching the 13R departure - I'd imagine they're doing a similar thing with 4R and 13L.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4005 times:



Quoting Contrails15 (Reply 1):
and they have been switching runways like crazy lately

Why is that? Just weather?

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
It's basically the land 13L and 22L, depart 13R config, except with the arrivals on 4R instead of 22L.

Yeah, I thought about that...Still weird to see!

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
There are restrictions on departing from 13R while landing on 4R due to wake turbulence concerns (just like there are restrictions on departing from 13L while using 22L).

They weren't departing 13R though...

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
22L go-around and a 13R departure.

Yup.

Quoting Mir (Reply 3):
Last I heard, they were waiting until the 22L arrival is firmly on the ground before launching the 13R departure - I'd imagine they're doing a similar thing with 4R and 13L.

This has to be difficult to coordinate though, no? And surely it must slow things down....Also what if there is a 13R go around? Straight into the 4R path....


User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2878 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3756 times:

I noticed this yesterday as well. When the weather gets nice and the 13's become the popular runway, most of the time 13R is the departure runway with only a few 13L departures here and there. Yesterday they were lined up and it was one after another on 13L departing. It was nice to see since I am at H81  Big grin Now if they could only get more 31R departures during the colder seasons too, I would be on cloud 9!!  cloudnine 

Maybe they are gearing up for the RWY13R closure and testing out different configurations for arriving/departing aircraft to see what works best when 13R goes down for repaving?

~H81



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineContrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 3724 times:



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 4):
Why is that? Just weather?

No clue, but its extremely annoying when I'm sitting at the gate waiting to push out.



Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21530 posts, RR: 55
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 3662 times:



Quoting RJpieces (Reply 4):
They weren't departing 13R though...

Because of those restrictions.

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 4):
This has to be difficult to coordinate though, no? And surely it must slow things down....Also what if there is a 13R go around? Straight into the 4R path....

No different from a go-around on 13L with a 22L arrival.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineAAAL From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 6 days ago) and read 3413 times:

When 22R/4L was closed this configuration was used a lot. It really think it all has to do with what LGA is doing. I hear JFK tower saying this when pilot ask. I think the problem is that JFK desperately needs a second landing runway around 1-3pm and a second departure runway at 3-8pm

I think they are trying to find a way to get a second departure runway when using the 13s.They have been experimenting with departures on 13L/R but the problems has been with the European airlines getting confused on which runway to land with a bunch of Go around's.
I remember seeing like 8 one day. But it was cool seeing them have 2 lines at 13L and 13R.


User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4537 posts, RR: 41
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3267 times:

I asked this question in another thread (http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4412561/), but it is probably much more pertinent to this thread, so I'll ask it again here.

I'd be keen to know what the different runway modes (i.e. combinations of runway directions in use at one time) of operation used at EWR, LGA and JFK are? Can anyone give a rundown, or even better a link to a website which has them listed? Is the choice of runway mode taken in isolation at each airport and then presented to terminal area control as a fait accompli, or is there consultation between the three towers and the terminal area control? Does the choice of runway modes at one airport directly impact choice of modes at the others, or can they act more or less independently? Am I right in assuming that the airspace above all three is controlled by the same terminal area control unit? Are there any terminal charts available online which might illustrate the airspace setup for those of us unfamiliar with it?

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21530 posts, RR: 55
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 2926 times:



Quoting VirginFlyer (Reply 9):
Can anyone give a rundown, or even better a link to a website which has them listed?

Your best bet would probably be:

http://www.nyartcc.org/sops

Keep in mind that this is not real-world info - it's for VATSIM purposes. But with that said, it is pretty accurate. Just don't take it as 100% gospel, as some of the stuff may be based on outdated information.

There's an Airport Interaction Chart that lists how the airports affect each other. As you'll see, the most disruptive thing that can happen is for JFK to use the ILS 13 (and thus that rarely ever happens).

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4537 posts, RR: 41
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2857 times:



Quoting Mir (Reply 10):

Thanks a bunch for that - that is extraordinarily detailed - who would have thought such an amount of effort would be put into a simulation exercise?! I guess I've got some decent light reading for the next month lol!

So it is all under the control of the one terminal area control, or TRACON as you guys call them. With all the different controlled airports, it certainly is a leap from the airspace structure I'm used to... Then again, when one lives in the Galapagos Islands of aviation procedures (evolved in isolation leading to a unique and bizarre creature!) that is Australia...

Thanks for the link again!

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
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