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FI: BA Postpones Retirement Of 737-400 Fleet  
User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2752 posts, RR: 4
Posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9549 times:



Quote:
British Airways is to defer replacing by at least three years its 19 Boeing 737-400s, as the carrier tries to reduce capital expenditures to offset the impact of the economic downturn.



Quote:
"We had planned to replace them in 2012," Walsh says. "However, we're satisfied that we can just barely stay with these aircraft for another three, possibly four years, based on performance of aircraft and analysis of maintenance activities. Although the aircraft are 16 years old they are relatively young in terms of cycles."

The classic 737's cannot be that bad since BA is keeping them. How is their current sate? How do they feel inside? Since Walsh are hinting at 2015-2016 for a replacement, I wonder if that has something to do with the CFM Leap-X engine being available. In that timeframe we should know what Boeing and Airbus plans for theirs narrow body future.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...s-retirement-of-737-400-fleet.html


Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSan747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4943 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9545 times:

Are they completely paid off? That's why NW/DL keeps the DC-9s. It's amazing how much cheaper a plane is to operate when you aren't making payments on it.


Scotty doesn't know...
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 9434 times:



Quoting OyKIE (Thread starter):
How is their current sate? How do they feel inside?

Well from the horse's mouth:

Quoting OyKIE (Thread starter):
Walsh says. "However, we're satisfied that we can just barely stay with these aircraft for another three, possibly four years, based on performance of aircraft and analysis of maintenance activities. Although the aircraft are 16 years old they are relatively young in terms of cycles."

So I would surmise that they are probably in decent shape and will be for a little while longer.

Quoting OyKIE (Thread starter):
The classic 737's cannot be that bad since BA is keeping them.

Well as far as economics go, the 734 isn't going to be as efficient as the A320/738, but it's definitely no dog, and with the right seat count, probably has a decent RASM. Better than say AA's MD80s



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineTheginge From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 1132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 9374 times:



Quoting San747 (Reply 1):
Are they completely paid off?

Even though it would provide more commonality with LHR shorthaul to have more Airbus at LGW this means buying more and as far as I know the B737's are completly paid off, so makes sense at the moment.


User currently offlineJER757 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 350 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9132 times:



Quoting OyKIE (Thread starter):
How is their current sate? How do they feel inside?

They're doing OK. A little bit shabby compared to the 319s which have moved down, but compared to the 733/735s which have left, they're not bad.

As pointed out on previous threads, they could tidy a few things up, such as the seats, ceilings and carpets. I'm pretty sure that won't happen immediately, given the current state of affairs, but within the next 2 or 3 years I'm sure they'll be done.

People will whinge that the 734s aren't good enough, but by improving the soft product and giving the DOCs a bit of TLC, they're fine.

737s are more fun than airbuses anyway, everything's a bit more of a drama on short runways such as JER.



Gale force fog... don't you love it?
User currently offlineOyKIE From Norway, joined Jan 2006, 2752 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8763 times:



Quoting EA772LR (Reply 2):
So I would surmise that they are probably in decent shape and will be for a little while longer.

Technically I am sure that BA would never fly airplanes in bad shape. But I was wondering how they feel like as a passenger. Are the interior up to date? Are there old seats etc? According to some threads on here the first A320 was not fun to fly from a passenger perspective.



Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8714 times:

Good move. The 734 has a good CASM on short hops from Gatwick over the channel. Full, they have a bad hot and high performance and a small range, but both isn't of importance from London to Dublin.Manchester Luxembourg Zurich Toulouse Verona ....

User currently offlineDavehammer From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 472 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8554 times:

The 734's are in need of a little love interior wise but they'll do the job for the next few years. The A319s can do the more strenuous stuff.

User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2501 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8499 times:



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 6):
The 734 has a good CASM on short hops from Gatwick over the channel. Full, they have a bad hot and high performance and a small range, but both isn't of importance from London to Dublin.Manchester Luxembourg Zurich Toulouse Verona ....

What about longer flights to TUN, TIA or SKG? are those routes better off operated by 319s?



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineTialati From Albania, joined Sep 2007, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8407 times:



Quoting AIR MALTA (Reply 8):

As far a TIA is concerned during summer time which is the peak season of the operations and flights ex-LGW are pretty much overbooked 737 is the best candidate due to the high seating capability but as far as the comfort goes on I personally would never swap a BA 319-Airbii with a 737-Boeing.
 Smile

Regards
TIALATI


User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2501 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8328 times:



Quoting Tialati (Reply 9):
As far a TIA is concerned during summer time which is the peak season of the operations and flights ex-LGW are pretty much overbooked 737 is the best candidate due to the high seating capability but as far as the comfort goes on I personally would never swap a BA 319-Airbii with a 737-Boeing.

I was actually amazed BA started this route. And it is now served daily which might prove that it is a successful one. No other major serves TIA or even PRN. What is the nature of traffic to those destinations?



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineTIA From Albania, joined Mar 2006, 524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7771 times:

Isn't LH a major?  Wink What about the next tier of airlines like AZ, TK, OS, OA etc.

User currently offlineAIR MALTA From Malta, joined Sep 2001, 2501 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 7698 times:



Quoting TIA" class=quote target=_blank>TIA (Reply 11):
Isn't LH a major? What about the next tier of airlines like AZ, TK, OS, OA

I wasn't aware of LH flying to TIA...



Next flights : BRU-ZRH-CAI (LX)/ BRU-FCO-TLV (AZ)
User currently offlineBabybus From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 7559 times:



Quoting Burkhard (Reply 6):
Good move. The 734 has a good CASM on short hops from Gatwick over the channel. Full, they have a bad hot and high performance and a small range, but both isn't of importance from London to Dublin.Manchester Luxembourg Zurich Toulouse Verona ....

I flew one recently to Verona and it did feel a bit vintage. Maybe BA could use these aircraft for a retro re-fit and dig out the old BA uniforms. That would be cool. That could be a unique selling point for BA LGW 734 flights.


User currently offlineVasu From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 3916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 6210 times:

Flew one on the way back from LUX in January and it was very tatty inside (though about the same comfort-wise as the A319 I flew out on). Keeping them for a bit should be no problem, but as others on here have said, some TLC is probably needed inside!

User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7539 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 6114 times:



Quoting San747 (Reply 1):
Are they completely paid off?

Probably not quite. In their 2007-08 Annual Report in Note 14 to their accounts BA stated that the depreciation rate (to a residual value) of their 734s was 4.9 per cent per year. This suggests that the residual value will be reached after approximately 18 years.

The first BA 734 (G-DOCA) was delivered in October 1991. So it will be 18 years old (and therefore depreciated to or close to its residual value) in around six months time. The last of their fleet (G-GBTB) was delivered in December 1993 and has therefore around 2.5 years to go before there will be no depreciation cost to account for. More importantly the plan to keep them in service for "at least three years" will see them all operating with a zero capital cost to BA's profit and loss account. And if they can then be sold on at above their residual value . . .


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6050 times:



Quoting San747 (Reply 1):
Are they completely paid off? That's why NW/DL keeps the DC-9s. It's amazing how much cheaper a plane is to operate when you aren't making payments on it.

 checkmark 

If it's paid off, it makes sense to fly it unless gas costs get too high or the maintenance becomes prohibitive. Think of it like an old car, worthwhile to keep until its costing more than its value to repair, or that its no longer fuel efficient.

Quoting JER757 (Reply 4):
737s are more fun than airbuses anyway, everything's a bit more of a drama on short runways such as JER.

 checkmark 

The 737 is definitely a more fun flight, but it seems to me that the A320 family provides more space and comfort. It just feels like a bigger and more spacious aircraft, and would prefer one on longer flights.


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