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OAG Changes 5/29/09: DL/BA/CO/UA/AA  
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8973 times:

DL ATL-MBJ 2rt to 3 eff. 9/09
DL ATL-MKE 8 to 6 eff. 9/09
DL ATL-DFW 10 to 12 eff. 9/09

BA LAS-LHR NEW 0 to 2/wk eff. 10/09

CO EWR-ITH NEW 0 to 4 eff. 9/09; Reinstated, still no service for Jul and Aug
CO IAH-GIG NEW 0 to 1 eff. 8/09

UA HSV-ORD NEW 0 to 2 eff. 9/09
UA IAD-LGA 7 to 9 eff.9/09 (slots?)
UA IAD-JFK 6 to 4 eff. 9/09
UA SEA-PDX 6 to 9 eff. 9/09 (service was set to decrease after August, now maintains at 9)

AA DFW-MHK NEW 0 to 1 eff. 8/09

OAG changes are often not reflected in GDS till Monday.

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5600 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8961 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
CO EWR-ITH NEW 0 to 4 eff. 9/09; Reinstated, still no service for Jul and Aug

Not reinstated until Sept? That means the aircraft *will* spend the summer flying EWR-ACK. IITH business is probably better during the school year anyway.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8904 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
DL ATL-MKE 8 to 6 eff. 9/09

Isn't FL on this route though? Shouldn't delta be dumping capacity on this as if its their most highly yielding and highly demanded route?


Joking aside,
I'm assuming DL doesn't see this as a fight they can win given FL's commitment to MKE.


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8836 times:



Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 2):
Isn't FL on this route though? Shouldn't delta be dumping capacity on this as if its their most highly yielding and highly demanded route?

I thought that was weird too. Perhaps it is related to WN's announcement. It's not like DL to run away (cut back in a competitive situation), but they have done it a couple of time in the last few weeks (BOS-PHL/BWI).

This may signal that they do not plan to fight for MKE or it could simply be part of the YX code share implementation.

Speaking of reducing competitive pressure, UA cutting back IAD-JFK is good for B6. Usually changes of more than one roundtrip in a market are more than simple seasonal adjustment...unless it is a much more seasonal market than DC-NYC. I wonder where the slots came from? It would be very interesting if B6 traded LGA slots for JFK. I doubt it, though.


User currently offlineHummingBird From Jamaica, joined Mar 2007, 3157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8792 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
DL ATL-MBJ 2rt to 3 eff. 9/09

Should this be 3rt to 2?...The summer period will see 3 daily and a 4th flight on weekends...



When you feel tired, never stop..Keep climbing
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8720 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
This may signal that they do not plan to fight for MKE or it could simply be part of the YX code share implementation.

They are certainly fighting MSP-MKE. I suspect your suggestion about the codeshare is correct.

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
AA DFW-MHK NEW 0 to 1 eff. 8/09

IIRC, this one was previously announced, though obviously not loaded.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6731 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8675 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
UA HSV-ORD NEW 0 to 2 eff. 9/09

Could very well knock out AA who is currenly flying HSV-ORD 1x daily.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
This may signal that they do not plan to fight for MKE or it could simply be part of the YX code share implementation.

I don't think DL will fight for MKE. It's just not worth it. Harassing FL is one thing, but getting into a war with WN and FL isn't a business DL's interested in.

Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
It's not like DL to run away (cut back in a competitive situation),

Actually in many of the domestic markets DL has been running away unless it's a hub. BOS, CMH, IND, MCO and FLL have all seen DL fizzle in the face of growing competition.


On a side note, I noticed that next month AA will upgrade one ER4 to a CR7 on the PNS-DFW route. Nothing major, but this is the first time AA has brough the CR7 into PNS.


User currently offlineNWAESC From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 3408 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8623 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
This may signal that they do not plan to fight for MKE or it could simply be part of the YX code share implementation.

Or maybe they plan on routing some of that traffic over DTW?

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):
I don't think DL will fight for MKE. It's just not worth it. Harassing FL is one thing, but getting into a war with WN and FL isn't a business DL's interested in.

NW has a fairly large pool of Frequent Flyers in MKE. I would think they'd at least fight to retain that.



"Nothing ever happens here, " I said. "I just wait."
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8623 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):
I don't think DL will fight for MKE. It's just not worth it. Harassing FL is one thing, but getting into a war with WN and FL isn't a business DL's interested in.

To be honest, ATL-MKE doesn't seem a whole lot different from any of FL's other ATL markets. DL keeps a presence, and might keep a somewhat larger presence than they otherwise would (especially to smaller markets, like BMI or ICT), but there's little or no overtly predatory behavior. DL knows that it won't knock FL off of most ATL routes, so there's not really any point in trying.

NW has historically been a bit more aggressive with FL (i.e. on various midwest-LAS routes).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineExaauadl From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8583 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):
Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
UA HSV-ORD NEW 0 to 2 eff. 9/09

Could very well knock out AA who is currenly flying HSV-ORD 1x daily.

UA will fail on this route. Ive said it a million times...ORD-South doesnt work to mid sized communities. The traffic patterns arent N-S. and West traffic conencts in DFW or IAH and east traffic in ATL. SHV, BTR, MOB, PNS, VPS they have all failed. AA was able to fly HSV-ORD cuz AA has a decent loyality in HSV that was built up when BNA was a hub.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6731 posts, RR: 24
Reply 10, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8499 times:



Quoting Exaauadl (Reply 9):
ORD-South doesnt work to mid sized communities.

Then what about ORD-CHS, ORD-GSP, ORD-TYS, ORD-CAE, ORD-SAV and ORD-GSO....all flown by UA...not to mention ORD-CHA (flown by AA)? Granted, they have a bit more of an east-west component to them, but they've all been flown by UA for quite some time.

I think however that in order to make markets like PNS/MOB/BTR/SHV work, UA would need to also offer IAD. Offering both markets would provide the needed connections to make UA competitive. However, given the stage lengths involved and the price of fuel, it won't likely happen.

Quoting Exaauadl (Reply 9):
AA was able to fly HSV-ORD cuz AA has a decent loyality in HSV that was built up when BNA was a hub.

But UA is already flying HSV-DEN and HSV-IAD with IAD being added not too long ago. This leads me to believe that UA has found some fortune in HSV...not surprising given the heavy amount of gov't contracting going through there.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8462 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 10):
This leads me to believe that UA has found some fortune in HSV...not surprising given the heavy amount of gov't contracting going through there.

 checkmark 

In addition, HSV's location helps it. It's nearly 300 miles closer to IAD or ORD than is a place like MOB or PNS, so while it's well smaller than BHM or BNA, the demand that is there probably more closely mirrors those places than MOB, PNS, or VPS. The shorter stage lengths can't hurt either.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5792 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8460 times:

Thanks for the update again.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33280 posts, RR: 71
Reply 13, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8437 times:



Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
BA LAS-LHR NEW 0 to 2/wk eff. 10/09

This will be daily.

Quoting Enilria (Thread starter):
AA DFW-MHK NEW 0 to 1 eff. 8/09

This will be 2x daily.



a.
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8350 times:



Quoting HummingBird (Reply 4):
Should this be 3rt to 2?...The summer period will see 3 daily and a 4th flight on weekends...

Let me be clear again on what this weekly post is. It is a comparison of what was for sale to what is for sale now for a given period.

If the schedule for a route in terms of daily flights was :
Jul 7rts
Aug 8rts
Sep 6rts

...and the new schedule as of this week is:
Jul 7 rts
Aug 8rts
Sep 8 rts

I would say:
6rts to 8 Eff. 9/09


User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8321 times:



Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
IIRC, this one was previously announced, though obviously not loaded.

True, that happens a fair amount. Of course, in cases like ITH I'm not sure we knew there would be a gap in service. At least I didn't...

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):
Harassing FL is one thing, but getting into a war with WN and FL isn't a business DL's interested in.

I think that's a good point. DL is avoiding 3 way wars lately. WN will impact MKE-ATL due to the likelihood of BWI and Florida service.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):
Actually in many of the domestic markets DL has been running away unless it's a hub.

Of course MKE-ATL is a hub route.

Quoting Exaauadl (Reply 9):
ORD-South doesnt work to mid sized communities.

I generally agree with that, although I had never thought about it geographically before.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 12):
Thanks for the update again.

 checkmark 

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):
This will be 2x daily.

I saw that in the release, but only one was loaded as of the time I checked. Don't know why.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 13):

This will be daily.

Is it supposed to be daily in October? Perhaps it is operating 2/week for the first few weeks?


User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4717 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8308 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 10):
But UA is already flying HSV-DEN and HSV-IAD with IAD being added not too long ago. This leads me to believe that UA has found some fortune in HSV...not surprising given the heavy amount of gov't contracting going through there.

if you go back to the late 70's UA used to have 2x HSV-LAX



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineEnilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7691 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8294 times:



Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 16):

if you go back to the late 70's UA used to have 2x HSV-LAX

I think you are mistaken. I think they flew DCA-HSV-MEM-LAX. I'm pretty sure they weren't non-stop.


User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3365 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8076 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 6):

Actually in many of the domestic markets DL has been running away unless it's a hub. BOS, CMH, IND, MCO and FLL have all seen DL fizzle in the face of growing competition.

Not sure I'd characterize it as "running", but certainly they've engaged in a strategy that de-emphasizes non-hub flying as system capacity is removed. When the choice is between reducing capacity at the cities mentioned versus reducing hub capacity, the decision is pretty easy. Particularly when their overall presence in the cities listed was large, but no where near dominant. These types of markets are easily susceptible in an environment where other operators are looking for new places to put a stake in the ground.

And frankly, none of them have been strong markets from a P&L perspective in years...even BOS. There is simply too much low-fare competition in all of them. Delta's BOS presence, for example, was built on ATL and Florida. When B6 entered the Florida markets, there wasn't much left for DL to fight for. Instead, available resources have gone to the hubs and, particularly, NYC.

Its not that they don't care about these markets anymore..its just that they don't care very much!


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23302 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7960 times:



Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 18):
Its not that they don't care about these markets anymore..its just that they don't care very much!

 checkmark 

And, FWIW, it's not like they are leaving profitable non-hub routes just because they are non-hub routes. While IND has gotten trimmed, they're still flying routes like IND-RDU (which has some Eli Lilly money helping it, IIRC) and IND-BOS.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7835 times:



Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 10):
Quoting Exaauadl (Reply 9):
ORD-South doesnt work to mid sized communities.

Then what about ORD-CHS, ORD-GSP, ORD-TYS, ORD-CAE, ORD-SAV and ORD-GSO....all flown by UA...not to mention ORD-CHA (flown by AA)? Granted, they have a bit more of an east-west component to them, but they've all been flown by UA for quite some time.

Ahem, ORD-CRW, UA.


User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 893 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7756 times:



Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 2):
I'm assuming DL doesn't see this as a fight they can win given FL's commitment to MKE.



Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
It's not like DL to run away

The changes are made in September, is this really Delta running away? FL has five daily flights compared to the six for Delta after these changes.

Seems like a seasonal change to me...


User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2485 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7304 times:
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Quoting Enilria (Reply 17):
Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 16):

if you go back to the late 70's UA used to have 2x HSV-LAX



Quoting Enilria (Reply 17):
I think you are mistaken. I think they flew DCA-HSV-MEM-LAX. I'm pretty sure they weren't non-stop.

Looking at some 1977 UA timetables, UA operated 1 ns HSV-GSO, 2 -TYS, 2-LAX, 1-RDU, and 1-DCA.
So they did in fact have nonstop LAX-HSV flights.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineMKE22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 1148 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7289 times:



Quoting C767P (Reply 21):
Seems like a seasonal change to me...

 checkmark  DL doesn't keep unneeded capacity in MKE for no reason. Typically, they will pull down service a little after the summer as that is a hot time for travel. Then there are other times where they ramp it back up again. Seasonal change.. Don't look to into it..



If Your not pissed, your not trying
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (5 years 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7152 times:



Quoting Enilria (Reply 3):
This may signal that they do not plan to fight for MKE or it could simply be part of the YX code share implementation.

I wouldsy YX have 1 daily plus DL just getting new flights into MSP,DTW and MEM also adding JFK-MKE has alot to do with it. DL has nothing to "fight" for in MKE anyways. the only non-hub route is LAX. If the ex NW base has been happy with MSP,DTW,MEM,LAX then they will be happy with JFK,ATL,LAX,CVG(?),SLC,MSP,DTW,MEM. All of these routes save LAX will stay no matter what happens. MEM,CVG and JFK could be cut due to loss of hub(MEM,CVG) or just not a good route for a CRJ(JFK) but other than that with or without WN,FL, and YX the other markets will stay. BTW if WN comes to Atlanta expect 767/757s a bunch of times to what ever city they come from. Delta wont fight to much for CVG,SLC and NYC(and LAX,BOS,MCO,FLL,TPA,CMH,DFW ect.) but Delta doesn't back down in Atlanta if it makes the route lose money.
Can a 757 go to MDW? That ould be the airport I would say will give Delta problems.

Quoting NWAESC (Reply 7):
NW has a fairly large pool of Frequent Flyers in MKE. I would think they'd at least fight to retain that.

read above.



yep.
25 Cubsrule : NW 753s can use and have used MDW (as did TZ's higher-density 753s). No 757 should have a problem there.
26 DeltaL1011man : Oh duh!!! had a stupid momment. Then IF WN comes in on ATL-MDW i would expect to see a bunch of 757s and chhhheeeeeaaaaappppppppp prices. Good for th
27 VictorKilo : Is it UA that would be failing on the route, or is this one of the at-risk OO routes from ORD?
28 Panam330 : Anyone up for a $29 ride on a 753?
29 EXAAUADL : All those you mention are slightly east of chicago not due south. Some are north of ATL which helps tremendously. My bet would be SAV does the worst.
30 Pilotfox : I have wondered about the MKE-JFK flight, it really seems like poor aircraft utilization. The flight doesnt leave MKE until 10:45am, gets into JFK a l
31 Cubsrule : HSV is north of ATL... It's designed to connect with the European bank at JFK. That said, I'm not sure how much of that it'll be able to do given tha
32 Enilria : I stand corrected then, but I do know UA flew HSV-MEM-LAX in that era, perhaps not in 1977.
33 KcrwFlyer : Didnt get the memo on it having to be due south. Whats the degree of variance allowed from 180 our of ORD? 20, 30 ?
34 Rampguy : I certainly agree with that. Don't forget about DFW. Delta certainly ran away from AA. Of course, CO ran away from UA in DEN back in the 1990's.
35 BatonOps : There is no break in service. Just checked the CO web site and was able to get flights in July. Service has been reduced to three (3) flights per day
36 Enilria : The OAG schedule continuously changes. They may have updated it to eliminate the gap. It was odd. My guess is that the EWR "slot" issue abates in Sep
37 Rampguy : Another thing I didn't think of mentioning is that I believe that once DL takes over the route authority on NW's Saturday only IND-CUN flight, you wi
38 Cubsrule : Why would they cut IND-CUN and continue flying BNA-CUN and BDL-CUN? Clearly, DL is not averse to Saturday-only CUN service where the market supports
39 WorldTraveler : We need to know the equipment involved in MKE before drawing any conclusions. ATLMKE has seen a fair amount of RJs. Switching to a higher percentage o
40 AvConsultant : A code-share allows partners to free up assets to deploy elsewhere. I would not say DL is running, they're managing their assets wisely. In addition,
41 Knope2001 : You guys crack me up with all the hidden meaning and speculative conclusions about MKE-ATL on Delta going down to 6x/day. Here's last year's MKE-ATL o
42 LipeGIG : Also, US has loaded it's future new service CLT-GIG eff. 12/09
43 Braniff722 : But, the problem here is, alot of travelers outta Shreveport don't want to fly east to Atlanta on ASA/Comair, just to fly west on Delta. AV, I would
44 AvConsultant : I have not worked with KSHV, so I cannot speaking of them. You guys do have Allegiant which is nice and a lot of communities would love to be in your
45 ADent : I know in the 90's UA (or UAX) flew HSV-ORD and HSV-IAD. My only BAE-146 flight was ORD-HSV on UAX. Times were not great and fares were high. Cheaper
46 DeltaL1011man : FL would help. The good thing is DL would dump flights as would FL and DL would likely give 2x to 3x times SkyMiles. Cheap fares. Question is who wil
47 Braniff722 : Allegiant is doing great here and Im so happy for them finding sucess in this market. But, this market is starving for more of this. God knows we hav
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