747ata32 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 41 posts, RR: 1 Posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8150 times:
Just wanted to let you know that KLM's 3rd 77W PH-BVC has been delivered today and left PAE at 11:40am PDT and is enroute to AMS, expected there tomorrow early morning.
Check here: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/KLM7461
Hardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 51 Reply 1, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 8154 times:
Thanks for the news. With the current configuration, small C cabin and mega Y cabin, the B77W is configured for times of recession. I imagine it will be used to make MNL daily B77W. I can hardly think of a better fit for the B77W, MNL is just perfect for this configuration.
747ata32 From Netherlands, joined Oct 2006, 41 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 7850 times:
Quoting DALCA (Reply 2): We need more of these long beasts at AMS, they really fit in nicely
PH-BVD will join the fleet coming August. 2 more will arrive in 2010 and I am quite sure we will see some more in 2011/2012, depending on how the world economy is going to develop itself and when KL starts phasing out the 744 full pax a/c.
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16598 posts, RR: 11 Reply 4, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7742 times:
The 777 always looks good in KLM's color scheme.
Is KLM using the 77Ws for replacement of older a/c (MD11, 747s) or for expansion?
CityAirline From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 656 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7719 times:
Quoting B747forever (Reply 4): Is KLM using the 77Ws for replacement of older a/c (MD11, 747s) or for expansion?
As of now, it's mainly for expansion.
Maybe in the future, KL will replace their full pax 744s with 77Ws, but never MD11s as the difference in capacity is huge (150 seats)!
B747forever From United States of America, joined May 2007, 16598 posts, RR: 11 Reply 7, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 7654 times:
Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 6): So when are the other 3 machines due to be delivered?
Here you go
Quoting 747ata32 (Reply 3): PH-BVD will join the fleet coming August. 2 more will arrive in 2010
KrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1576 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7509 times:
I'm still very disappointed that KL decided to put 3-4-3 economy seating on their new B77Ws. Will KL's new economy extra class have 3-4-3 seating as well?
YULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2115 posts, RR: 6 Reply 11, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7103 times:
Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 10): I'm still very disappointed that KL decided to put 3-4-3 economy seating on their new B77Ws.
Yes, well, initially, they were supposed to replace the 744 one by one, so they have the same capacity, and such asks for 3-4-3 in Y. This is what AF has done with the 77W CIO, and there really is not much that separates AF from KL. As long as (unlike the AF ones) the 772s remain in 3-3-3...
I can bet you that 3-4-3 in Y 777 cabins will be the norm in 5-10 years from now, when the 744s become obsolete and need a replacement. Such will beat a 748I any day in terms of economics.
Airbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4068 posts, RR: 51 Reply 14, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 6149 times:
Quoting Mindscape (Reply 13): I thought KLM decided to put more C class seats on their B77W starting with the 3rd frame,
I think that this aircraft might be the first one with the new Premium Economy class installed? Since it's confirmed that KL will introduce this new class during this year to the customer...
KL's C-class 2-3-2 layout is also really bad, to be honest.
"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
LACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3752 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5537 times:
Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 14): KL's C-class 2-3-2 layout is also really bad, to be honest.
Unfortunately, this is the norm with the 77Xs. They configure J like they do on the 744s. The only exceptions are NZ, CX, AC (and some of DL's 777 fleet, mainly 77Ls right now.) that have that have the Herringbone configuration.
AABB777 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 454 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5399 times:
Quoting LACA773 (Reply 17): Unfortunately, this is the norm with the 77Xs. They configure J like they do on the 744s. The only exceptions are NZ, CX, AC (and some of DL's 777 fleet, mainly 77Ls right now.) that have that have the Herringbone configuration.
And QR: They offer 2-2-2 in J on both the 77W and 77L.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 19, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5343 times:
I will be waiting on the day KL will start using their 777's to CUR. Probably it will be the 772 but who knows. We get the 744 now and if cargo and passenger loads keep justifying a 747 sized aircraft we might see the KL 77W as well
Seemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 955 posts, RR: 7 Reply 20, posted (4 years 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5256 times:
Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 10): I'm still very disappointed that KL decided to put 3-4-3 economy seating on their new B77Ws. Will KL's new economy extra class have 3-4-3 seating as well?
I reckon that maybe KL will have 3x3x3 on these aircraft soon, I remember hearing that they have a lot of left over seats due to its high capacity. 3x3x3 would be better and 2x2x2 in Bus would be better too, plus I hear the middle seat can be annoying to other pax.
Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 14): think that this aircraft might be the first one with the new Premium Economy class installed? Since it's confirmed that KL will introduce this new class during this year to the customer...
I'm looking forward to seeing it, I think that the next B77W coming in August will have this, and as the B744's are getting retrofitted in June or July (I think), they should be getting the new eco+ soon. Will the A330's and MD-11's get the new class?
TGV From France, joined Dec 2004, 869 posts, RR: 22 Reply 21, posted (4 years 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4930 times:
Quoting LACA773 (Reply 17): Unfortunately, this is the norm with the 77Xs. They configure J like they do on the 744s. The only exceptions are NZ, CX, AC (and some of DL's 777 fleet, mainly 77Ls right now.) that have that have the Herringbone configuration.
Quoting AABB777 (Reply 18): And QR: They offer 2-2-2 in J on both the 77W and 77L.
And SQ, BR, 9W, TK.
Not a norm yet.
Avoid 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y ! They are real sardine cans. (AF/KL for example)
KrisYYZ From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1576 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (4 years 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4069 times:
Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 11): I can bet you that 3-4-3 in Y 777 cabins will be the norm in 5-10 years from now, when the 744s become obsolete and need a replacement. Such will beat a 748I any day in terms of economics.
What I also find somewhat interesting is that KL uses one of the narrowest seats on their wide-bodies at only 17.5in wide. Compare that with AC's B777s at 18.5in, DL's B777s at 18.0in and the narrowest is AF's B77Ws at only 17.0in while their B772s are 18.0in. One must also take into consideration that most North American passengers are slightly wider than their European counterparts.
So I guess KL B77Ws must lose a lot of aisle space which would be more annoying for the FA's than the pax.
Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 20): I reckon that maybe KL will have 3x3x3 on these aircraft soon, I remember hearing that they have a lot of left over seats due to its high capacity. 3x3x3 would be better and 2x2x2 in Bus would be better too, plus I hear the middle seat can be annoying to other pax.
Given the current recession that may turn out to be the case. Also the drop in premium class traffic may contribute in changing economy class layout. BA also uses 17.5in seating on their B772s yet their new B77Ws will be in 3-3-3 config, I wonder if they will use 18in seating on those birds.
KL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 4993 posts, RR: 13 Reply 23, posted (4 years 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3872 times:
Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 22): One must also take into consideration that most North American passengers are slightly wider than their European counterparts.
And why should a European carrier care about the unhealthy lifestyle of a few persons in the US?..... Live healthy, live happy and fly happy.... I'm one of those passengers that can become extremely pissed off when i pay for a seat and sit next to a 120 kg guy that takes all the space.....
PHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 3 Reply 24, posted (4 years 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 3868 times:
Quoting KrisYYZ (Reply 10): I'm still very disappointed that KL decided to put 3-4-3 economy seating on their new B77Ws. Will KL's new economy extra class have 3-4-3 seating as well?
Yes. KLM envisions no dedicated cabin/seats for Y+ (unlike AF), so it will be like United Airlines' Y=, just extra pitch. At least this is what I read recently on luchtvaartnieuws.nl
Quoting Mindscape (Reply 13): I thought KLM decided to put more C class seats on their B77W starting with the 3rd frame, and the two first would be retrofitted afterward ?
I reckon that would be the most stupid thing to do these days, add more C seats... KL will likely want to stick to 35C, just like on the 772.
Quoting Airbuseric (Reply 14): I think that this aircraft might be the first one with the new Premium Economy class installed? Since it's confirmed that KL will introduce this new class during this year to the customer...
As far as I know BVA/BVB were already adjusted for Y+, with more pitch in the first rows of economy, but please correct me if I'm wrong.
25 Cba: IIRC KLM ordered the 772 to replace the MD-11. The 77W is for expansion (short term), and eventually to replace the 744. Not sure what the plans for
26 PHKLM: The 772 has replaced the B743 and allowed the airline to grow. Airbus is said to have offered KL a sweet deal if the company would have ordered the A
27 KrisYYZ: I agree. I have been stuck between two large passengers in the past and it was terribly comfortable. However a large portion of TATL pax are from N.
28 A388: Wouldn't the A350-1000XWB be a better option as it is offered as a 777 replacement aircraft (including the 77W) or will the -1000XWB be the same size
29 Hotje: I'll avoid 3-4-3 in a 777 on any route, especially KL's (seat pitch still at 31", which is not enough in any configuration). Just disgusting how they
30 Viscount724: I don't think so. I believe the 772s (and 3 744ERF freighters) were ordered to replace the 743s and 742SUDs.
31 TGV: Because for now AF77W are already with 3-4-3 while AF772 are still with 3-3-3. But the 772 will also be reconfigured with 3-4-3 when Y+ cabin is inst
32 Kappel: The a350-1000 is slightly smaller than the 77W, but does not allow 10 abreast like the 77W. That's why the 77W is more likely as 744 replacement (the
33 Seemyseems: Does KL plan to install the WBC seats from the B77W on to its other aircraft?
34 KrisYYZ: That's unfortunate, AF offered a very nice product in Y. Good tips, thanks for posting. KrisYYZ
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