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B-757 Relaunch As B-757-800ER?  
User currently offlineDelta777Jet From Germany, joined Jun 2000, 1247 posts, RR: 3
Posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 23023 times:

After Boeing stopped producing the B-757-200/300 and the B-737-900ER is not that well suited for the Transatlantic Market and the upcoming B-787-800/900 are quite big for some markets and also the B-757-200 are getting quite old, how about Boeing is launching a new B-757 (then as a -800 Series) for the B-757 replacement?

It could be the basically the same B-757 with B-787 Cockpit and maybe new wings, 787 Cabin Layout etc.!
The Range should be slightly extended so that this new B-758 aircraft could easily do US East coast to anywhere in Europe and/or anywhere from North America to South America (Like NYC to GRU etc.)

I think there is a huge market for it not only for US Carriers (AA/US/UA and for sure CO) also European Customers who ordered the B-787 could use this aircraft for thinner longer routes.

Maybe the aircraft could be build so that pilots could fly both aircraft like 757/767 used to do and still do!

Any other ideas?


Fly easyJet
74 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMIgAiR54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 1659 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 22905 times:



Quoting Delta777Jet (Thread starter):
It could be the basically the same B-757 with B-787 Cockpit and maybe new wings, 787 Cabin Layout etc.!

It will be almost a new plane, and I think that the development cost, certification..............are very high, and the potential market is not so big.

Quoting Delta777Jet (Thread starter):
I think there is a huge market for it not only for US Carriers (AA/US/UA and for sure CO) also European Customers who ordered the B-787 could use this aircraft for thinner longer routes.

I agree with you that the idea is very good, but I don´t see such a big market.


User currently offlineAdam727 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 131 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 22700 times:

I do think that Boeing should open the 757 production line again but just kinda update it. Since the 757 is a hot item right now. Also its a cool plane.

User currently offlineAA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1232 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 22507 times:

Well, as gets said everytime this topic is discussed, the 757 as we know it, will not get relaunched. The tooling and jigs have been dismantled, and it would be cost prohibitive to rebuild them just to produce a 30 year old design.

However, that being said, I have always thought there is another side to that coin, by saying that considering the aircraft was already designed and built to the tune of 1,000 units, it would be far less expensive than it was to develop the aircraft the first time. In my estimation as a business professional (not an engineer) I don't know how it couldn't.

Now all this to say, that if they were going to go ahead and reproduce a new aircraft and spend a few billion smackaroos on design and engineering costs, they might as well integrate some of the new technologies developed in the last 30 years. I think this will simply take the form of the new narrowbody series (probably the 737-replacement, most likely dubbed 797) which will have smaller models like the 73G and 73H with some larger models closer in size to the A321/757 with varying ranges. This would essentially be a new model that would have learned from (rather than just reproduced) the vast success of both the 737 and 757 programs, and how the market has evolved to take advantage of the abilities of these aircraft in a time of new and different challenges than the industry has faced before.

My feeling is that the next narrowbody, which some may say is a 737 replacement, some may say is a shrunk 787, and some may say is a reworked 757, will look like an A32X series aricraft in its proportions with the aesthetics of the 787. This will allow it to cover the lower end of the market (B73G, B73H, A319, A320) but allow for higher gross weight models with longer ranges and capacities (much like a A321ER would be or the former 757).

This is what I envision for the future of the Boeing narrow body program. Again, whether you call it a 737 replacement, reworked 757, shrunk 787, or a composite A320 fighter with GEnx and/or GTF technology, I think it will all culminate with the new narrowbody we"ll call the 797.

[Edited 2009-05-30 06:39:06]


Sic 'em bears
User currently offlineDrerx7 From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5162 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 22482 times:



Quoting Adam727 (Reply 2):
I do think that Boeing should open the 757 production line again but just kinda update it. Since the 757 is a hot item right now. Also its a cool plane.

Is it feasible to reopen the line...wasn't the tooling destroyed once production stopped?



Third Coast born, means I'm Texas raised
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5369 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 22313 times:

There is a market for a 707-320 successor if it's all-inclusive seat-mile/km cost can come close to those of larger aircraft. If not, markets which cannot support the larger aircraft will lose or never get non-stop service. The development driver for such an aircraft might be demand from second-tier airlines with intercontinental aspirations; a couple of Southwest or Ryan style airlines could probably put together a launch order.

My guess: Updating the 757 would probably not achieve the all-in cost targets.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineOwlEye From Netherlands, joined Feb 2006, 957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 22316 times:

Could look like this:

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu63/Owleye1995/Boeing757800ER.jpg


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 7, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 22236 times:



Quoting Delta777Jet (Thread starter):
the B-757-200 are getting quite old

The last ones delivered in 2005. There are a lot of very new 757's out there, more than enough to cover the very few routes that only a 757 can do. The vast majority of 757 routes can be efficiently covered by an A32x or 737.

Quoting Adam727 (Reply 2):
Since the 757 is a hot item right now.

Are you talking after market? 757 sales went absolutely dead prior to shutdown of the line. It wasn't a "hot item" at all in the post 9/11 sales rebound. There was zero business case to keep the line open and, now that the tooling is gone and the space filled with 737 production, no business case to reopen the line.

Tom.


User currently offlineI380North From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 117 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 22202 times:

The 757 is come and gone. Get over it. Our sentiment about "they don't build it as they use to" is not often substantiated.

The B739NG and A321 can do (almost) all the 757 and more!!

The future is composite frame and fly-by-wire design. More attention to efficient interior design and customer comfort. Boy, I do not miss that noisy plane.

Sorry. if I burst your bubble. I did not mean to.


User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 967 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 22081 times:



Quoting OwlEye (Reply 6):
Could look like this:

That is a very good looking imitaion.

A 757 remake would be very good, but who would order it? I could see a lot of the US carriers ordering them maybe a few European carriers.

But I would love to see a 757 remake.



seemyseems
User currently offlinePar13del From Bahamas, joined Dec 2005, 7067 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 22066 times:



Quoting I380North (Reply 8):
The B739NG and A321 can do (almost) all the 757 and more!!

I think in most cases that's the rub, the only thing those frames have over the B-757 is economic numbers and even those are not that far apart. In airplane terminology, they do not fly as far, as fast or with a comparable load. The B-757 is not an uneconomical a/c, the other a/c are just more economical, is there a difference, well the difference between the B-727 and the B-757 is greater than the B-757 and A321 / B-739ER

Does a market exist for the long range niche that the B-757 currently occupies by itself, I think there is, looking at the way the a/c is now used that is definate, that no one realised the potential of the a/c's range before is water under the bridge. Neither OEM wants to invest in a replacement a/c, indeed Airbus lowered the spec on its competitor A321 to remove range and payload, Boeing has since attempted to beef up its B-737 as an alternative, so niether OEM seems willing to offer a replacement only economic alternatives. You either go larger into a twin aisle long haul a/c or smaller with lower range. The B-787-3 could be an alternative if Boeing would rework the range of the a/c it would be able to replace the A300 also.

To it's credit the B-757 will go down as an a/c which opened up some TATL routes in trying economic times that would never have been done, thats also an opinion. All hail CO  Smile


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30600 posts, RR: 84
Reply 11, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 21896 times:
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I would not be surprised if the 757 is opening TATL routes because:

  • a) international is the only segment of the domestic US airlines that is consistently making money

  • b) the 757 is now too large and expensive to effectively deploy domestically compared to the 737-900ER and A321-200, so the operators have to send them somewhere else.

I expect the market for new-build planes is effectively non-existent, just as it was in the early 2000's when airlines started buying A321-200s and pushed Boeing to offer the 737-900ER.


User currently offlineSeemyseems From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 967 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 21836 times:

How come the B737-900ER is so unpopular for TATL uses?


seemyseems
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30600 posts, RR: 84
Reply 13, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 21772 times:
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Quoting Seemyseems (Reply 12):
How come the B737-900ER is so unpopular for TATL uses?

It lacks the payload-range of the 757-200. The same issue affects the A321-200.

The 116t MTOW model 757-200 can fly around 25t 3000nm, A 737-900ER can only carry around 15t that distance and the A321-200 around 16t.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11418 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 21723 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting MIgAiR54 (Reply 1):
It will be almost a new plane, and I think that the development cost, certification..............are very high, and the potential market is not so big

Well, when i think about TATL flights, i also think about the use of a plane like "758ER" to be used in Asia, Africa and some South America-North America/Europe flights. The possible use is a good sign of how popular it could be with airlines.
There's a gap between what we call widebodies and single-aisle aircraft for some usage:
- Entry Plane for a new route
- Medium Range
- Good payload for 140-180 passengers

The 739 is too little and the 787 will be to big (and expensive) for such markets.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 21658 times:



Quoting I380North (Reply 8):
The B739NG and A321 can do (almost) all the 757 and more!!

IOW, the B739NG and A321 can't do as much as the 757, and more!!!????????

Perhaps a better idea for a 757NG would be to replace the wing-box and landing gear of the current 737. Jack it off the ground so make room for larger engines. And with a reworked wing-box, add new wings for efficiency for the task.

Just a thought.


User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2362 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 21606 times:



Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
I would not be surprised if the 757 is opening TATL routes because:


* a) international is the only segment of the domestic US airlines that is consistently making money

More right here.

757 TATL is still disgusting. Bleh  spit  yuck  spit  yuck 



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineRikkus67 From Canada, joined Jun 2000, 1624 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 21547 times:

The one thing I wish Boeing would have retained, was the cockpit and nose design of the 757, and incorporated it into the 73G series. We all know that the basic fuselage (upper lobe) from the 707,727,737,757 is the same... it would have been quite funky to see the big cockpit windows and stubby nose on a 73G...

Bring on the scale down 787... 'cause we will still see plenty of 757's (and 737's) for a while to come.



AC.WA.CP.DL.RW.CO.WG.WJ.WN.KI.FL.SK.ACL.UA.US.F9
User currently offline7324ever From Serbia, joined May 2009, 563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 20568 times:



Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):

Well, when i think about TATL flights, i also think about the use of a plane like "758ER" to be used in Asia, Africa and some South America-North America/Europe flights. The possible use is a good sign of how popular it could be with airlines.

Is there really an African market for a 758ER? Assuming it's using the same technologies as the 787 it would be a little pricey for developing 3rd world nations. (I don't mean all of Africa is poor just some countries' airlines don't seem able to keep up on routes with that type of air craft that would be cost effective with price of it)

I could see it in Asian and South/Central American routes to US and Canada could work. A 757 would look great in Aero Mexico colors!



Anything the US and EU build the Russians do it better! i.e. TU-144 vs Concorde and TU-154 vs The 727...
User currently offlineDfwRevolution From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 962 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 20263 times:



Quoting Rikkus67 (Reply 17):
The one thing I wish Boeing would have retained, was the cockpit and nose design of the 757, and incorporated it into the 73G series

Boeing actually offered to do just that but the 737NG launch customers, especially WN, demanded commonality with the 737 Classics. In the end, commonality was the better selling point anyway.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 11):
I expect the market for new-build planes is effectively non-existent, just as it was in the early 2000's when airlines started buying A321-200s and pushed Boeing to offer the 737-900ER.

I think you are exactly right. Also note the steady stream of 757s leaving passenger service for freighter conversion or parking all together.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 14):
There's a gap between what we call widebodies and single-aisle aircraft for some usage:

A gap on paper does not mean a gap in practice. There is a huge gap between the 350-seat 777-300ER and the 550-seat A380. Yet only a single airline has ordered the 425-seat 747-8.

In the end, when Boeing eventually replaces the 737NG with a model burning up to 20% less fuel, there will be no need for a relaunched 757. The reduction in SFC will provide more than sufficient range extension for the 737-900ER equivalent model.


User currently offlineAstockla From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 20221 times:

Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't the end of the 757 mean that Boeing do not really have a direct competitor to the A321? Or does the 739/787 fill this market?


above us is only sky
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30600 posts, RR: 84
Reply 21, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 20089 times:
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Quoting Astockla (Reply 20):
Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't the end of the 757 mean that Boeing do not really have a direct competitor to the A321?

The 737-900ER offers very similar performance and capacity to the A321-200.


User currently offlineSeaBosDca From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 5316 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 20090 times:



Quoting Astockla (Reply 20):
Correct me if i'm wrong, but doesn't the end of the 757 mean that Boeing do not really have a direct competitor to the A321?

The 737-900ER and A321 directly compete with each other. Compared to either one, the 757 is larger, heavier, more capable, and less efficient.

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 7):
There are a lot of very new 757's out there, more than enough to cover the very few routes that only a 757 can do. The vast majority of 757 routes can be efficiently covered by an A32x or 737.

 checkmark  By themselves, the 757s delivered since 2000 can cover all of the routes that require a 757 rather than a lighter narrowbody.


User currently offlineCatdaddy63 From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 19825 times:
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I believe that when Boeing launches Y1 that they will offer a variant that will replace the 752. A 180-200 seat Y1 with transatlantic range without payload restrictions should do the trick. With a lighter airframe and more efficient engines it would offer a CASM improvement over the 752.

User currently offlineEBJ1248650 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1932 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (5 years 2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 19759 times:

I'm inclined to agree the 737 replacement will be a scaled down 787 or a 787 likeness that has unique qualities of its own. 757 line won't be reopened but then there's little doubt in my mind that Boeing will take all it learned from designing and building the 757 into production of the next narrow body airliner.


Dare to dream; dream big!
25 Luke777 : Look forward to see a 757 replacement when Y1 comes around. I think boeing will design two wings for that model,one to replace 737 line,another to cov
26 DfwRevolution : There are no lessons to be learned. The 757 is old 1970s technology. Since Boeing developed the 757, they have gone through two generations of 737 mo
27 777STL : No, I don't think so. Neither of these carriers is in any hurry to purchase new aircraft and the aggregate 757 fleet amongst these three isn't *that*
28 CFBFrame : A 757 is the worst a/c to fly between 6-8 hours for the passenger. The a/c is really too long for a single isle a/c. Yes it has opened up new markets
29 Manfredj : Not a substantial argument for me. Taking into consideration all the things the 757 can do, payload, range, size, performance, it's not likely to be
30 FlyCaledonian : If Boeing was going to do an upgraded 757 the time to do it would have been after the 737NG was launched. It could have updated the 757 with a lot of
31 Stitch : The 787-3 has been at least suggested as a replacement for the 757-300, seating about 16% more passengers (290 vs. 250 in two classes using a Boeing
32 Scipio : I subscribe to that. As a frequent TATL flier, I will go out of my way to avoid getting stuck on a narrowbody for 8 hours. Done it once, and hope to
33 Stitch : You'd think the 787-3 would have done better, then, since it is a modern short-range, high-capacity widebody design.
34 Flybyguy : Not only that, but many of the drawings and stress/engineering calculations necessary to build this aircraft again may be lost or are in a format tha
35 Par13del : If both opinions are correct, someone somewhere is screwed.
36 PC12Fan : It would be doubtful at best the 757 would be revived, it saddens me as well. If it were, you'd only see two types IMO. The 753 and a new 757LR. Both
37 Ikramerica : As others have pointed out, your statement should read "and less!" These planes can no do what a 757 CAN do, but they do accomplish many of the missi
38 Stitch : I think it comes down to the sense of being "hemmed in" more then physical differences. I mean sitting in a three-abreast seating section of a 747 is
39 Prebennorholm : The 757 was born into an entirely different world. It was made to replace the 727, and to some extent also the 720 and 707. The 737 only existed in it
40 DL767captain : The problem is that by the time you create new wings for a plane you might as well create a whole new plane. What's more likely is we will see a 757 r
41 787kq : Probably not a huge market if the plane is targeted only at the niche. If the airplane is versatile and has low costs for shorter routes also, then i
42 Post contains links and images SXDFC : Its no 757- but I did come up with an Airbus A325 which is Airbus's answer to the 757 Aviation-Design.Net:Design © Bobby CatoneTemplate © RP Abraham
43 Viscount724 : Only a 1 in 7 chance of winding up in a middle Y seat on a 767 vs. 1 in 3 on a 757. Widebodies also have more overhead bin space per passenger than n
44 Post contains images Scipio : Well, I don't understand this mentality. Am I supposed to take pity on that poor narrowbody plane and purchase my ticket on that basis? It is much mo
45 M11Stephen : The 757 is gone and will never be back. (Ok the 757 is widely used but a new one will never be produced as the machinery used to make them was destroy
46 777STL : Not to mention the fact that you'll see very few 380s with 550 or more seats. Of the three operators right now, SQ has the most seats on its 380s and
47 Max Q : Well, they DON'T build them like they used to.
48 Nwarooster : Boeing dropped the 757 as it was beginning to compete with the newer and larger versions of the 737. Boeing was also selling more 737s and the 757s we
49 Kennyk : There are three aircraft at the top end of the narrowbody, low end of the widebody range that have no real replacement available, these being the 757,
50 Ikramerica : It combined with the 767 was made to replace the 707, and yes, the 757 was the model that replaced the 727-200Adv in Boeing's product offering in ter
51 HAWK21M : Currently there is a huge demand for B752Freighters. But since there is no possibility of restrating the B757 production line again.I guess a replace
52 Faro : I am amazed by the 757's enduring mystique appeal; it is probably the single aircraft with the greatest number of resuscitation attempts to its credi
53 Max Q : There simply is no replacement for the mighty 757, and nothing in development, it's a great shame as it fills a vital and very profitable niche.
54 Delta777Jet : Ok guys, I know that the 757 is gone. Thats the reason this topic is about a relaunch of a 757! Its a 758ER !!!! Call it 797 or 7X7 or 7Whatever7. It
55 OyKIE : Inteed it did. But why? That is the 1 million dollar question to ask. Why did it fail in the marked after 9/11? I believe that there are many reasons
56 Stitch : The 757 family enjoyed decent sales right up until 2002, at which point sales dropped off a cliff, selling no more until the 7 to the Chinese in 2003.
57 TylerDurden : Doesn't matter to me...one business class cabin is just about the same as any other--with a few exceptions. I'm TATL twice a month. Privatair has a d
58 777STL : You don't know that an updated 757 would have garnered more orders. If there was a demand for such an airplane, you can bet Boeing's customers would
59 Stitch : I'm inclined to agree with your analysis. Boeing alone could not make the 757 better. They would have required the assistance of Rolls-Royce and Prat
60 787kq : And on many a 777 like Emirates or Air France in economy, the chance of a middle seat is worse 2 in 5. So why all the complaints? The upper deck of t
61 OyKIE : As you said your self. The 757 had no competition, hence why Boeing failed to improve it. To keep a line going for 20 years without doing almost anyt
62 Stitch : You're certainly correct when it comes to First Class pods and suite seating, although LH's seats would fit. However, I don't know if that would be c
63 Stitch : But again, Boeing didn't update because they didn't want to. They didn't update it because the market didn't force them to. Boeing will respond to ma
64 Scipio : Needless to say, I also go out of my way to avoid 10-abreast 777 seating. Why is it that people seem to feel entitled to question passengers' right t
65 OyKIE : My point is that there are not one conclusive reason why the market did not want it. I tried to summarize some points to be made as to why the 757 fa
66 Pellegrine : IMO the 757 line is dead because Boeing oversaturated the market (which you have to worry about when a product is such a success in its niche). Everyo
67 Sirtoby : As the 757 has the 737 diameter, this A/C will be the largest model of the 737RS, hitting the market in the 2025 timeframe.
68 YULWinterSkies : It simply lacks some range. Well, you can add the 747 too. Yet, i think these numbers would only be accurate if everyone on board was traveling by th
69 Stitch : If there had been only one conclusive reason, Boeing could have addressed it and then airlines would have bought it again. I think multiple airlines
70 Viscount724 : Not sure about "most". I've been in many middle seats on full flights when they were the only seats available.
71 SEPilot : This topic is ridiculous; neither Boeing or Airbus is going to introduce any other aircraft until the demand picks up. Their primary worries are to ma
72 Atomsareenough : I don't doubt that a narrowbody is somewhat less comfortable to fly in than a widebody on any particular route, especially as the distances become lo
73 TDubJFK : Wow, OwlEye .. hot looking design!
74 SeaBosDca : The only difference for me between a 757 and a 747 is a lower ceiling. Same seat width, same pitch (in general), and aircraft type is irrelevant to t
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