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AF A332 Missing (F-GZCP) - Part 3  
User currently offlineModerators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 505 posts, RR: 0
Posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 69092 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Continuing the discussion from part 2 here:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4429616/


Please use moderators@airliners.net to contact us.
256 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBA787 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 2596 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 69222 times:

It's not looking good really is it  Sad

Thoughts and prayers with the families of those on board

BA787


User currently offlineStil From Spain, joined Apr 2006, 345 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 69164 times:

Now a new thread part is opened, I'll write again what I think about this tragedy, as nobody gave an opinion about it.
Maybe the 'electrical problem' was something WX radar related. If the aircraft lose the radar in the middle of the intertropical front, with CB reaching FL500, it's as if becoming blind; so blindly flew though one of this huge CB.

Stil



....... Gueropppa! ......
User currently offlineBurner71 From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 69174 times:

If the plane broke up in flight, would the plane still have sent the failure message as the systems started to break apart?

User currently offlineAirthanet From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 68943 times:

This really is a sad day for aviation.........
I can't imagine what those people involved are going through. I hope an answer is found soon.



Recently Flown Airlines: Air Malta (KM), My Travel (MYT), First Choice (FCA), Swiss (LX), Virgin Atlantic (VS), Monarch
User currently offlineAirxliban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4504 posts, RR: 54
Reply 5, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 68942 times:

Does anyone know when the passenger manifest will be made available?


PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2888 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 68985 times:

How far down in the ocean can the black box be before a signal cannot be detected?

User currently offlinePensacolaguy From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 539 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 68970 times:

This is very sad.
I do hope that they are able to find some survivors. And that the aircraft wreckage is located. Lets not let this happen again!

Wasn't the aircraft equipped with a GPS tracking device?


User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 68679 times:

It is finally confirmed by AF the nationalities of pax oboard as follows:

Brazilian: 80
French: 76
German: 18
Italian: 9
US: 6
Chinese: 5
Hungarian: 4
Spanish: 2
UK: 2
Marrocco: 2
Ireland: 2
Angola: 1
Argentina: 1
Austria: 1
Berlgium: 1
Iceland: 1
Phillippines: 1
Norway: 1
Poland: 1
Romenia: 1
Russia: 1
Slovakia: 1
Sweden: 1
Turkey: 1

Rgs,


User currently offlinePhoenix9 From Canada, joined Aug 2007, 2546 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 68660 times:

CNN is reporting that the aircraft went through maintenance routine through April 16, 2009. Can anyone shed some more light on what could have been done?

But like I said in the other thread....let us now jump to conclusions and wait for the official word on what may have caused the crash.



Life only makes sense when you look at it backwards.
User currently offlineSebjacques92 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2007, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 68653 times:



Quoting United Airline (Reply 283):
Why?

Because they don't know exactly where the aircraft is and the Atlantic Ocean is a very big place and with indications the aircraft went down in a storm, who knows how rough the sea might be. Wreckage could be spread out over miles by the time rescue teams locate it. Also most of the wreckage will sink to the bottom of the sea which as someone indicated earlier could be 2-3km deep!

Still hoping this is not the case!


User currently offlineVfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3906 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 68659 times:

Sad indeed that the flight was almost sold out - IIRC, the A330-200s have a C40Y179 configuration, which makes a 98,6% load factor.

User currently offlineB777ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 68676 times:

Based off the link given by the poster at the end of thread #2 which shows the approximate position of the aircraft when lost, coupled with the rough sea state in the area due to the CB's depicted on the NASA image, I would hazard the guess that no wreckage will be found on the surface. It is likely the French Navy with help possibly from the US Navy will be the one to eventually locate the wreckage. I wonder if by then the FDR's will still have anything retrievable.

User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 13, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 68681 times:

Regarding the problem finding the location.

The authorities know approximately where the aircraft was at it's last ATC transmission and it's last ACARS transmission.

That is where they will concentrate their search.

BUT, if the aircraft did not go down immediately, it could have flown a long way as the pilots worked the problem and tried to resolve the problems.

Searches off the coast of Africa, and farther from Brazil than 800nm are probably useless. But until some actual wreckage is found, those searches have to be made on the million and one chance the aircraft was able to fly another hour or more.


User currently offlineGolftango From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 68342 times:

When rafts hit the water, don't they send out a signal? Assuming the AC broke up, I'm sure the rafts/pieces would still float including the trackers?

User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5887 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 68338 times:

Maybe WX and/or manufacturing fault caused something catastrophic to happen.....like rudder snapping off etc.

Not unheard of



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2378 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 68388 times:

I was just watching FOX and those idiots were discussing about how lightning could bring down an aircraft such as this made out of composites. He was stating that most airliners are made of mostly aluminum whereas the A330 may have a problem dispersing lightning because of all the composites. This guy was from the FAA to boot.

My thoughts are with AF447.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineKingFriday013 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1294 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 68047 times:

I mentioned this in the second part to the thread, but this is starting to turn into the situation with the crash of Adam Air 574. If you remember, the black boxes were found more than 7 months after the plane went down. IIRC, no bodies were ever found.
I'm praying we don't see history repeat itself...  pray 

-J.



Tho' I've belted you an' flayed you, By the livin' Gawd that made you, You're a better man than I am, Gunga Din!
User currently offlineBorism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 68041 times:

may I repost my questions from previous part:

There are lots of people outside of aviation who are wondering right now why it takes so long to figure out even approximately where this Airbus is.

And I have to admit, even I, who knows quite a bit of details about stuff like GPS or ACARS, find it amazing that authorities don't quite seem to have figured out whether the flight is near Africa, near Brazil, or somewhere in between.

Obviously pinpointing exact location is very tough due to weather and vastness of the search area, but at least any clue at all?

How long time do they have before darkness? Something like 6 hours in case of African coast perhaps?


User currently offlineAirxliban From Lebanon, joined Oct 2003, 4504 posts, RR: 54
Reply 19, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 68044 times:



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 8):
It is finally confirmed by AF the nationalities of pax oboard as follows:

Is there a source for this? I'm sorry, I'm not doubting you, it's just that there are two passengers who I know who I think are on the flight.

Bless the souls of everyone onboard.



PARIS, FRANCE...THE BEIRUT OF EUROPE.
User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 20, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 67681 times:



Quoting B777ER (Reply 12):
the approximate position of the aircraft when lost,

That is the position when the aircraft last made contact - not when the aircraft was lost.

Even if it was a complete catastrophic breakup at FL350, the wreckage could be a dozen or more miles away.

Or the aircraft could have descended with problems out of communication and flown for a long time after. Very doubtful, but possible.


User currently offlineCaribillo From Spain, joined Jul 2006, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 67669 times:

A spanish surveillance aircraft has joined the french and brazilian S.A.R. team.


Red, orange and yellow...with a big crown!
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4013 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 67721 times:

They are saying that the plane may have flown 3-4 more hours beyond where it was originally thought to have been lost? OMG.

User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 67752 times:



Quoting Vfw614 (Reply 11):
Sad indeed that the flight was almost sold out - IIRC, the A330-200s have a C40Y179 configuration, which makes a 98,6% load factor

According to Brazil media, 2 pax decided not to travel in the last minute, 2h before the flight (1 Brazilian and his US friend, because one noted his passport was expired and decided to stay instead), this would make the flight depart almost 100% load.

Rgs,


User currently offlineJFernandez From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 301 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (4 years 10 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 71063 times:

What's astonishingly weird to me is that this is the first time I can remember a passenger aircraft disappearing and 12 hours later still having no idea what happened to the aircraft or even where it is.

25 TheSonntag : Are there military satellites available in this region which might help in the search? Or any ships?
26 Post contains links Koosi : My post, posted in Pt 2 just 2 seconds after the discussion was moved to Part 3, seems to have disappeared, so I'll post it again: The Slovak Ministry
27 Post contains links Hardiwv : Here is the source: http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/cotidiano/ult95u574807.shtml Pax onboard: Brazilian: 80 French: 76 German: 18 Italian: 9 US: 6
28 RFields5421 : Post 13 above, but to summarize - they know approximately where contact was last made with the aircraft - and that is most likely near the place wher
29 Breiz : According to French President, Brasilian, Spanish and French search teams (boats and planes) are in action. The USA have also been asked by France to
30 PanAm1971 : I see a lot of people are taking the information being spewed by the press as factual. I'd be very skeptical of anything being reported. Remember, wha
31 RFields5421 : Adam Air - two and a half years ago
32 Hardiwv : Brazilian navy sent three ships and Brazilian Air Force sent 2 Hercules aircraft, one from SSA and another from REC. Also French/Senegal Air Force (j
33 NNomad : Apparently one Portuguese pax on board to A.
34 Btblue : Crikey, it's a difficult scenario. We don't really know what has happened to this aircraft.... If the rudder snapped off then I would assume a distres
35 LipeGIG : They already release the full and complete list to families. AF said will not release it to the press while there's hope. The route is a cash cow for
36 Post contains links EGNR : FlightGlobal reporting possible pressurisation problems with the aircraft as well: "Brazil's defence ministry has detailed the last known track of the
37 Airxliban : Oh dear. Thanks...I'm afraid that my worst fears are just about confirmed. Does that website have a link to the passenger names yet? Bless the souls
38 9V-SVC : Besides if this was another aircraft type, the Boeing 777, it could have happen to the aircraft. I am a massive A330 fan and this incident will not st
39 NNomad : One thing WE DO KNOW so far: Something really uncontrolable, very agressive and surprisingly FAST happened..Period A.
40 VirginFlyer : And IIRC Kenya Airways two years ago too... This is a troubling accident, I guess as they all are. Thinking of those involved... V/F
41 Hardiwv : Indeed, if anyone still does not know, yesterday (as is the case everyday) 3 airplanes departed GIG towards CDG: the missing AF A330, plus another AF
42 Snaiks : I know Boeing planes do carry tracking signals on their boats, don´t know bout Airbus. A few years back, workers from the 744 line "borrowed" a life
43 Aloha717200 : My sympathies go out to the families....not knowing..not having that closure has to be worse than if the wreckage were already found. Doubtless some s
44 Post contains links PHKLM : Phone number reserved for relatives and friends, as per http://alphasite.airfrance.com/fligh...neiro-paris-charles-de-gaulle/?L=1 0800 800 812 in Fra
45 HAWK21M : Is there an ELT signal picked up yet & is an explosion ruled out yet? regds MEL.
46 Breiz : It is confirmed just now that none of the 3 beacons placed o/b the A330 has been activated.
47 Mayor : Oh, I'm sure they have a rough idea, but absent a signal from the ELT and any certain signal from the a/c before the incident, it can't be easy. Also
48 JFernandez : Aha, yes, thank you for correcting me.
49 HAJFlyer : I am surprised that no one has yet brought up the A330 autopilot malfunction that forced a PER bound QF flight to make an emergency landing on an air
50 PanAm1971 : IIRC there was a BAW 747-400 that went through a volcanic ash cloud (full nasty static lightening and heavy turb) and didn't lose either pressure or e
51 Hardiwv : No pax name released by AF yet, only media speculation on names based on relatives/friends, some important people from corporate sector in Brazil (in
52 Kelebek : Any kind of terroristic attack was definitely ruled out, right? The lack of any distress call or message makes me believing that this could -but doesn
53 ExSR : As far as I know, I slide/raft combinations carry these emergency transmitters. But I don´t think they would be working after such a crash: they wou
54 Andz : When SAA's Helderberg went down in 1987 the debris field was found at -4,400m but only after a year's search so the pinger was not a factor in the di
55 757GB : Something else that gives me a bad feeling is that this was an aircraft flying at altitude, not one that got lost on approach or takeoff. An aircraft
56 B777a340fan : Not to sound ignorant or insensitive, but what are the likelihood that the plane safely landed somewhere on some island in the Atlantic? Is there any
57 Airxliban : Thanks. What I was fearing seems more or less confirmed. I hope that they didn't suffer much. Thoughts and prayers with the families of those who wer
58 Kelebek : How can they know? Couldn't it be activated but in very deep water not able to transmit?
59 MadameConcorde : Why would the flight commander (Captain or F0) ever decide to venture into a thunderstorm - in first place? This is puzzling...
60 PanAm1971 : That's what they're saying... but I think the reality is that the cause-any cause-is yet to be discovered.
61 NNomad : They have 3h20m more or less....until 8:30PM UTC ...then you have to call it a day A.
62 757GB : It seems like by now they should have checked every possible landing site many times over to make sure the aircraft is not there before declaring its
63 N776AU : From part 2: The same thing happened to me on a Northwest A330 last Wednesday, but it got back up and running again. Damn I fly an A330 for the first
64 UAL747 : Does anyone have a weather map of the atlantic at the time of disappearance. Sorry, I haven't been following until now, so if it has already been post
65 Kelebek : I am not an expert nor a person serverly involved in aviation. But ruling out anything at this stage seems a bit weird to me. Seems that this is just
66 Hardiwv : Nothing has been ruled out "definitely" yet, including possible bomb or terrorism, but I think chances are remote considering the plane departed Braz
67 VirginFlyer : It was mentioned in passing in thread 1 on this issue... V/F
68 Santosdumont : Here's a Brazilian Air Force statement released earlier today (my translation) with some technical info: The Air Force Command reports that it initiat
69 EZEIZA : Wouldn´t that allow them to reach an airport though? Unless of course the crew had lost awareness and did not know where they were exactly. terrible
70 Post contains links Jtamu97 : Looks like Fox news is using a photo from this site. I am pretty sure I have seen this one before: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,523701,00.html
71 Lexy : If the WX radar is malfunctioning, you don't know what you are flying into or how to get around it. Common sense here, it's like flying blind.
72 NEMA : Another sad story developing here and our heartfelt thoughts go out to the friends and relatives of those involved at this time. We hear that the airc
73 PanAm1971 : Indeed. I want investigators to formally comfirm that they did.
74 SQ452 : First of all, bless all those on board this flight and may God be with them. What is particularly unsettling about what appears to have happened is th
75 Seemyseems : This is terrible news, I've been watching the news updates since I came home, very sad.
76 RFields5421 : There is one airport near the location where contact was lost. I'm certain that was checked early. It is a 6,500 ft runway and no ILS, but news repor
77 AmricanShamrok : Confirmed now that 3 Irish were on the plane. Brazilian: 80 French: 76 German: 18 Italian: 9 American: 6 Chinese: 5 Hungarian: 4 Ireland: 3 Spanish: 2
78 Khobar : It would be too early to "rule out" a terrorist attack. One could say it's unlikely. Are there terrorists in Brazil? And would they attack an Air Fra
79 Kelebek : Well but wouldn't they have contacted AF-headquarters if that was an issue? Radio seems to still have worked (though unsure if still at that time) -
80 ExSR : Remember the Air Inter 320 which was lost in the Vogesen, an area between France and Germany? This is in the middle of civilization and they couldn´
81 RFields5421 : Excellent summary. I might add that the weather over the main search area is still stormy and cloud covered today - making satellites even less usefu
82 Hardiwv : Thanks for the revised list increasing the number of Irish pax from 2 to 3. Rgs,
83 Agill : Well I think he meant that no matter what happen he won't be on a Virgin A330, because they don't use them.
84 Lexy : If the electrical system is in the process of failing or has failed, it's doubtful any of their radio transmissions would've made it to base.
85 Post contains links IH8BY : Speaking of speculation, from what I gather Le Figaro is suggesting that a bomb attack could have brought down the plane. I think this is rather irres
86 Post contains links and images DreamsUnited : OMG! It is from this site! look! View Large View MediumPhoto © Nathan Zalcman - AirTeamImages Its been cropped
87 Dougbr2006 : Air France reported that the automatic maintenance transmission took place about 56Nm before their next check point at 4°0'18n, 29°59'24W which if y
88 Post contains images Andybancroft : Another Map from the BBC: If this is right it looks like it went down in the sea around the north west coast of Africa. Andy
89 AirlineCritic : I'm surprised by the press, politician and even a.net speculation presenting probable scenarios and ruling out things before even the wreckage (if any
90 Hardiwv : 3 out of the 9 Italians onboard were connecting from the Southern province of Brazil (Santa Catarina), they flew from NVT to Rio to connect on AF. Th
91 Greenair727 : Furthermore, if the plane was under a large area of thick storm clouds, the view from the satellite may well have been blocked.
92 474218 : The picture not from a.net but from Associated Press (note the AP under the picture).
93 KingFriday013 : I'm sure this idea will sound very far-fetched, but once the storms clear, could Hubble or someone on the space station try to look at the Atlantic an
94 Tjc2 : I've been following this incident and the threads since hearing it on the radio this morning. Just seen the report on the BBC news at 18.00BST. They m
95 Remcor : I'm not arguing that he wasn't an idiot, but composites and lightning coming together isn't a trivial problem. The electrical conductivity of composi
96 SQ452 : Thanks RFields. Good point as well about the weather, so no go on the sat photos. The other thing is currents...the debris could well actually be hun
97 Carls : What about a kidnap? Could be a possibility or not?
98 Phoenix9 : Hubble can't focus on earth...that will be like reading a book using binoculars. As for the astronauts, if there is debris, it will be too small to b
99 LipeGIG : Brazilian Air Force says that probably the plane is located somewhere 770Km from Fernando de Noronha Island. It's an area where helicopters are not a
100 YKM97Y : I think speculation here is fine. This forum is mostly populated by people who have a strong interest in aviation and the speculation so far has been
101 DreamsUnited : Slightly off topic but that picture is from A.net. look at the two, note the northwest in the background, its just been slightly cropped to zoom in o
102 Silver1SWA : Actually, it does appear to be a photo from this site. Check reply 96 to see the photo in question.
103 Pellegrine : Wow that is brazen. BBC News used the same photo but at least they credited the photographer, they detailed the registration too.
104 Khobar : Unless they use IR imaging.
105 757GB : If I might add, it's also very possible that a combination of factors like the ones you listed could have done it. Except in the case of terrorism, u
106 Pellegrine : Or the Lacrosse/Onyx radar.
107 Post contains links and images Tomascubero : I just made this map on our Jeppview: I inserted a 50nm waypoint after TASIL where the electrical fault was reported and then inserted an 850nm circle
108 SQ452 : When was this ExSR? I actually don't remember this. I remember the GOL crash in Brazil. Took them forever, but that was in dense jungle. Adam Air cra
109 Cloudyapple : One thing I think is fair to assume is that it's not an incident but an accident.
110 Sanjet : Does anyone know where we can view radar echo's of the storm in that area around the time of the crash? I'd like to know how high these thunderstorms
111 Venus6971 : Having experianced a lightning strike in the air onboard a USAF E-3(707-320) it felt like a mid air losing all elec. power. I was in the cockpit at th
112 Hardiwv : Provisional non-official list of onboard pax: 1) Eirch Heine, President, Executive Council, ThyssenKrupp - CSA 2) Luís Roberto Anastácio, President
113 Breiz : The centre keeping watch on such emergency beacons only says that no signal is received from them. The reason is not definite (not activated, destroy
114 Hiflyer : What needs to be added/deleted? Also...3 man cockpit...normally at other carriers captain goes for crew rest about 3 hrs in and rests for 4 hrs for ar
115 Post contains links Texan : CNN reporting the flight lost pressure. http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americ...06/01/air.france.brazil/index.html Texan
116 Hardiwv : Correct, Brazil Air Force now states the airplane disappeared 770km off the coast of Fernando de Noronha in the archipelago of Sao Pedro e Sao Paulo,
117 FlyABR : if indeed there are still storm clouds over the area where that plane may have crashed...using IR imagery would not be of any significant help. IR pi
118 AAMDanny : Not sure on that one. I work on the 757 and the crew have to take a ELT with them as they leave the Aircraft in an evac... and litrally turn it on th
119 B707forever : I researched that IB had a GIG-MAD flight 30 mintues after the AF flight with an A340-300. (Forgive me if someone's already written on this, I'm too l
120 Post contains images FX772LRF : From user "dreamliner1408" about the ELT system on the Airbus A330. "an ELT on the A330 can be activated manual or in auto. It is always in auto, when
121 PanHAM : What puzzles me since noontime today ist the fact that this accident was kept quiet for about 4 hours. Thanks, hiflyer for the chronological listing,
122 Hardiwv : In fact 3 flights GIG-CDG departed about the same time yesterday: the missing A332 from AF, one B747 from AF and another A332 from TAM, all of which
123 Morcegoa330 : Confirmed names so far: Adriana Francisco Sluijs, Antonio Gueiros, Christin Pieraerts, Erich Heine, Giovanni Batista Lenzi, Letícia Chem, Luigi Zort
124 AirlineCritic : I didn't mean to imply that speculation is bad. We should speculate, that's why the forum is here. But the quality of speculation matters. We should
125 Hardiwv : 1) Eirch Heine, President, Executive Council, ThyssenKrupp - CSA 2) Luís Roberto Anastácio, President Michelin-South America 3) Antônio Gueiros, I
126 Phoenix9 : Any possibility of explosive decompression? Like what happened with the Qantas last year.
127 PanAm1971 : IMHO this is the correct and balanced way to view that unlikely scenario.
128 Post contains links and images PipoA380 : Such as this one? View Large View MediumPhoto © Nathan Zalcman - AirTeamImages
129 Andz : 0133 last contact to 0214 automated signal sent is a long long time in disaster terms...
130 AVLNative : Wasn't there a post in thread 2 about a bomb threat to another AF flight ?
131 Post contains images Hardiwv : Location, based on Brazil Air Force information: The Brazilian Air Force is searching the area with the following Brazilian airplanes: - 1 Bandeirant
132 MadameConcorde : I would not rely on what a main stream newspaper such as Le Figaro stated about the accident. Translation: "A bomb could very well have blown up the
133 DreamsUnited : hmmm... I think I beat you to the punch... Post 96...
134 TUNisia : Wasn't there a private jet that lost pressure and flew over the entire US for a few hours and then just crashed? That couldn't have happened in this
135 MadameConcorde : Yes, I have been thinking of that too since the accident happened. There had to be other flights, whether commercial or private within tracking possi
136 Timlin88 : Very sad indeed. Definitely hope they pinpoint the location of the wreckage soon enough. Seems like a needle in a haystack situation, with teams from
137 CityhopperNL : Wow thats not too far away from my initial calculation in part 2, well over 4 hours into its flight, it indeed seems to have been far out of the Braz
138 Smcmac32msn : Payne Stewart's private Learjet on the way from Florida (don't remember where in FL) to Houston Texas on Oct 25, 1999. Missed the turn west and ended
139 DreamsUnited : I will third that, I often wonder how the controllers who last handled the aircraft feel too, a strange feeling I bet. I wouldn't be able to sleep fo
140 Post contains links PDXtriple7 : Golfer Payne Stewart in 1999: http://www.airsafe.com/stewart.htm
141 Akhristov : Adam Air refused to pay for the salvage operations, and Air France is a reputable airline. I just found out about this incident, I really hope for a
142 Andybancroft : Surley there are other aircraft still crossing the Southern Atlantic, Could ATC get the Aircraft to look out for the Air France A332 in the sea (or th
143 777jaah : And the Helios 737
144 Yegmaster : Yes, a few years back carrying amongst others PGA tour proffesional Payne Stewart. I beleive it ended up crashing in the Dakota's somewhere. Cheers
145 Andybancroft : Press Conferance on BBC News 24 Now.
146 AF2323 : Ironicaly, the French navy is sending a ship called "la Foudre" (thunder) for the search operations.
147 M11Stephen : NWA A330's have ELT's that activate automatically on contact with water and I'm pretty sure its standard equipment on overwater aircraft so I would im
148 AT777 : If I recall it was Payne Stewart. He was a PGA golfer. I believe it took off from FL somewhere and finally ran out of fuel over SD. I know 2 F16s wer
149 RFields5421 : Not on international transoceanic flights. Once the AF aircraft and the other left VHF range, they move to HF radio. That is not an open broadcast wh
150 Post contains links and images Hardiwv : You are correct, the area has extremely difficult access and is very remote and far away, in the middle of the ocean, again this is the area the resc
151 Dragon6172 : Do those maintenance messages get sent as soon as a fault is detected... or are they "bundled" and sent at certain intervals?
152 Hardiwv : And the ship will only reach the location 2 days from now... Rgs,
153 2H4 : Did the signal indeed come that long after the aircraft disappeared from radar? 2H4
154 RFields5421 : Of course they have been looking. But there area where the AF plane is expected to have gone down is covered with clouds and there are still storms i
155 Post contains links and images UAL747 : Just an image and link explaining the depths in this part of the Atlantic. http://www.meer.org/M8.htm UAL
156 RFields5421 : The aircraft did not disappear from rader. It flew out of range of radar on a normal flight path - yes long before the message was sent.
157 Dragon6172 : The plane disappearing from radar is expected over the ocean. I believe the maintenance message came 30 minutes or so after the last transmission fro
158 Phen : Sadly, BBC News is reporting that 5 Britons were aboard the flight, and not 2 as previously reported.
159 Phollingsworth : You are right, RF transmissions would be no good at any significant depth. However, if you know where to start searching you can drop sonobuoys in th
160 Andybancroft : An 'Expert' on BBC News is saying that the storms forcast over the southern atlantic yesterday night and today are up to FL500
161 Cchan : This incident/accident is not going to deter me from going on an A330. Had about a dozen flights on them before, great aircraft, great experience.
162 Hardiwv : The Brazilian Federal Police checked the list of pax and there were 52 Brazilian (51 pax plus 1 crew). The difference in numbers with AF official not
163 Divemaster08 : I have always wondered with the rules for IFR aircraft that goes RCF In the rules of the air document, if an IFR aircraft goes RCF, there is no means
164 Andz : Just quoting what I read.
165 Jambo293 : My heart goes out to all the families and relatives who may have had loved ones on board this flight. This seems like quite a long route to operate an
166 Post contains links MadameConcorde : PPRuNe post: A Portuguese news organization is reporting that people on the ground received text messages from AF447: http://jn.sapo.pt/PaginaInicial/
167 Idlewild : Which fuel tank does the A330 use first? I ask because it almost sounds like a repeat o TWA 800 in the immediacy of the disappearance. I also thought
168 Garnetpalmetto : Irony aside, Foudre's complement of AS 532 Cougars would be instrumental in a surface search. Being an LPD, I doubt her sonar is sophisticated enough
169 Hardiwv : The location is supposed to have 4,000 meters in depth, this shows the huge task ahead in the rescue operations. Rgs,
170 FCA767 : I at home, listen to the HF of these aircraft, and that is a SELCAL chime which I hear also and then the pilot saying they received the call, so i ca
171 MadameConcorde : Referring to my previous post Would passengers be able to send text messages from a flight in the middle of the Atlantic knowing the aircraft is in tr
172 A318 : Translation of the first paragraph of that article: "I love you" or "I'm afraid" were some of the messages from phone to the passengers of the plane
173 UAL747 : This is well within range of the A332 without payload restrictions and I do believe the aircraft was quite full with 228 passengers. The A332 flights
174 PPVRA : There's a beach on Fernando de Noronha island called "Air France beach." AF used to stop there back in the days of amphibian aircraft, if I recall th
175 Post contains links F9Widebody : http://www.avherald.com/h?article=41a81ef1&opt=0 Check out image #2.
176 SEPilot : I think this highly unlikely due to the lack of any communication from the pilots. The automatic messages about electrical shorts now coupled with de
177 Morcegoa330 : Basically they say that some relatives received text messages saying: "I love you" and "I'm scared" Ronaldo Jenkins (president of Brazilian airlines
178 Borism : Or until the night descends. Which is only in few hours max unfortunately.
179 IH8BY : I read this somewhere else, but I'm not sure how they'd be sending them from the mid-Atlantic...
180 Virgin744 : from Google translator; "I love you" or "I'm afraid" were some of the messages from phone to the passengers of the plane of Air France sent their rela
181 Hardiwv : It is saying the pax onboard AF flight sent text messages "I love you" and "I am afraid" soon after they noticed there was something seriously wrong
182 Post contains links Radarbeam : http://translate.google.com/translat...&sl=pt&tl=en&history_state0=pt|en| This seems unlikely. I dont see how the passengers phones would pick up any
183 Khobar : I assumed since IR at specific wavelengths is used to see through clouds that IR satellites would be no different. I stand corrected.
184 Phen : From the above quoted article and translated from Portuguese on Google: " "I love you" or "I'm afraid" were some of the messages from phone to the pas
185 PHKLM : Impossible. The GSM system does not allow communication between a handset and the network if the distance between those two is more than 35km. I doub
186 AF2323 : She is currently in Portugal, so yes, a long way to go. Hopefully, the Brazilian teams will have localized the plane before. I've just heard on TV th
187 Post contains links F9Widebody : http://translate.google.com/translat...1250367&sl=pt&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
188 PDXtriple7 : How would anyone on AF 447 have had cell phone reception, especially in such a remote area?
189 PPVRA : Based on the article linked, the translations are correct. If they had time to turn on their cell phones (presumably they were off) and type the mess
190 Post contains links ADent : It doesn't have to be a lightning strike to cause massive electrical problems - a Qantas 747 lost 3 of 4 buses (including FO displays and degradation
191 Borism : How does GPS relate to being able to send text messages? Let's repeat al ltogether now, GPS is one-way only system - recieve only, GPS is one-way onl
192 EA772LR : If by the grace of God the plane was able to land in a manner similar to US Airways 320 that went down in the Hudson River, and the passengers were ab
193 LH526 : Realy?? Given they were deep into the Atlantic ocean off any coast cruising at 39.000ft I doubt they had any cellphone signal whatsoever .... is is p
194 Morcegoa330 : No idea. I'm very skeptical about it. Anyway, I just translated as requested by MadameConcorde.
195 LatinAviation : I don't know about that. I flew Air France last week CDG-GRU on an A332 and it was full in both cabins. I returned on Saturday on EZE-CDG on a 773. O
196 777Mike : The story on cell phone text messages are almost certain a hoax. Be reminded of a similar story back in 2005 when a guy in Cyprus claimed he had recei
197 AirlineCritic : No. The phones will be unable to reach any cellular network base stations when they are far from the shore or far from inhabited areas. The maximum r
198 BA84 : What difference does nationality make? BA84
199 Post contains links BuyantUkhaa : Complete BS - they were out of radar coverage but their GSM phone would still work??? AF is not using picocells either. "I love you" or "I'm scared"
200 Jbernie : There might be other instances but the private jet that golfer Payne Stewart had this occur.
201 LH526 : They are sent throughout the flight ... there's a constant online status and OPS in CDG receive plenty of messages from their 100+ flights in the air
202 PHKLM : Impossible. As said, GSM will not allow any communication if you are more than 35km away from the nearest base-station. Without getting too technical
203 Mortyman : I was just thinking... Is there any volcanos in this area ? Over / under water ? Could the plane have been hit by an erruption and flown into it, dama
204 Tommy767 : CNN states that there will be a press conference from brazil in about 20 mins. This is awful. my thoughts and prayers go out to the victims and famili
205 RFields5421 : I understand these are not encrypted and available to folks to listen - but out over the open ocean planes don't listen to other aircraft. I would su
206 Pellegrine : I'm sure he meant satellite phones such as Inmarsat and Iridium. This convoluted mystery is so un-head-wrap-aroundable it's overwhelming.
207 Hardiwv : The next official news conference by AF will take place in Sao Paulo in the next hour and will provide the list of pax and more detailed information.
208 PPVRA : Or possibly Fernando de Noronha.
209 Gothamspotter : No. Far out of the range from from cellular towers. There is an AP credit right under it. While it is possible they filched it, it is also very possi
210 Koosi : Offtopic: What exactly do you mean by "network"? I managed to log into an Albanian network on the Croatian Mljet island with Albania over 140 km away
211 CityhopperNL : Yea this would be most extraordinary, unless some people on the plane were using some genuine satellite telephones, I don't know if they use that a l
212 LH526 : If so, media and science guys would have know by now!
213 UltimateDelta : Well, there's the Mid-Ocean Ridge, but that's a lot further east. And since it's underwater, there is little likelyhood that an eruption would reach
214 Hardiwv : This is now confirmed, second official AF press conference will take place in Sao Paulo in 30min or so, live broadcast on BBC (they are ahead of CNN
215 RFields5421 : A couple reasons come to mind. One is the cutbacks in military spending over the past decade/ two decades has been massive for such efforts unless th
216 Dragon6172 : Thanks. Another question is what powers the system that is sending the messages from the plane? If the message gets sent, would it be safe to assume
217 ExSR : @ SQ452 1/20/1992 A320-111 F-WWDP close to Strasbourg I just double checked the report: it took them eight hours to find the aircraft and survivors
218 PHKLM : OT: Network as in any of Brazil's GSM networks; be it on the mainland or islands. It is no problem "picking up" a signal from a network that is furth
219 Congaboy : Maybe the SMS messages were sent while still in coverage? Time/date stamp and triangulation would confirm this. Being scared and telling folks you lov
220 Radarbeam : Or, would it be possible that AF ran into problems earlier than we thought it did and the passengers knew about it while they were still within a cov
221 PHKLM : I opt for either) made up, or) sent before boarding at GIG.
222 PHKLM : One cannot send an SMS at cruise altitude / cruise speed using a land based network. Go figure; why spend millions of dollars on on-board communicati
223 Post contains links Mortyman : The Norwegian foreign ministery is reporting that 3 Norwegians are confirmed to be onboard the missing plane. Not 1 as stated in the previously posted
224 Koosi : Thanks. So I can actually log into the network, but cannot call/text? And sorry for bothering you with this OT thing.
225 LH526 : Airbus of this type have 3 redundant system .... hydraulic that is, I dunno about electrics ... plus the "rat" .... the last systems to go offline ar
226 Jano : They could have been sent from AVOD system. At least that's how it is possible to text on NWA A330 - I used to text my fiancé upon reaching the coas
227 Hardiwv : BBC World is now live from Sao Paulo's official AF press conference. Rgs,
228 MadameConcorde : PPRuNe post: Just taken from the associated press website Timeline of disappearance of Air France jet By The Associated Press – 15 minutes ago Timel
229 PHKLM : Correct. Correct, but when you have time to write an SMS using AVOD, the crew certainly would have time to send any distress message...
230 FCA767 : Thanks for the clear up
231 Pellegrine : I didn't think about this too. With the talk of satellite imagery/signals, we have to keep in mind most of these satellites are on orbits circling ov
232 LipeGIG : AF just cancel today's GIG-CDG AF447 flight (A332). I don't know at this point if it's just because of the flight number or anything else.
233 Andybancroft : Watching the Brazil Press Conferance they are saying they a/c had been in for maintainance in april. C/D check? Does anyone know about maintainance. A
234 DeltaWings : Exactly, Sorry but this all sounds extremely weired and suspicious the whole thing.
235 SW733 : The problem I see with arguments of sending messages via AVOD are two-fold: 1) If there was time, why didn't the crew have time to send a message, and
236 LH526 : My investigations would focus on the other AF flight as well as other south atlantic crossing during that time along with JJ, LH and BA who all leave
237 YULWinterSkies : Well, he's claiming that it is technically possible that a bomb may have disrupted the airplane, either a big explosion which destroyed it immediatel
238 Jano : Correct. But someone might have started to type the text message upon flying into the storm, because they were scared, while the flight was still pro
239 Hardiwv : Many pax are cancelling AF CDG-GIG/GIG-CDG flights as reported by media in Paris. Correct, AF Director for Brazil said in the press conference that t
240 TP777 : The article says that text messages, as "I Love you" and " I' m affraid" were sente by passangers to their relatives on ground. This information was
241 Radarbeam : I find this puzzling. Why is there a 27 minute gap between AF version and the Brazilian version? Certainly the aircraft ACARS would have recorded the
242 EMA747 : Sorry for speculating and this might have been covered before but.....For someone who might know more about lightining strikes - Would it be possible
243 757GB : That's what makes me doubt that report so much. If there was time to send text messages, how come the pilots did not communicate anything? The only "
244 Dragon6172 : AF is giving the time it left the gate and Brazil is giving the takeoff time? Just a guess.
245 Yellowtail : I send a text message to my wife everytime I get on an airplane...."on my way..I love you"...maybe this helps to put those supposed text messages in c
246 Radarbeam : 1) Because there are simply no checklist that calls for the crew to send SMS via the AVOD in case of comms failure. With the cockpit door locked I am
247 TP777 : Portuguese TV SIC is saying that Air France officials allready have spotted the debris of the plane near the coast of Cabo Verde. They showed a site s
248 BlackBox : Regarding the alleged text messages sent by victims, bear in mind that "I love you" and "I'm scared" are messages that are sent by passengers as a mat
249 Christopherwoo : Dont shoot me out of the water for asking this. But what is Air France's policy about flying through areas of thunderstorms? I remember being very sur
250 Radarbeam : ACARS records 4 differents times when it comes to takeoff and landing. OUT: pushback from the gate OFF: wheels off the ground ON: wheels on the groun
251 Andybancroft : An 'Expert' on BBC News is saying a fire could have been caused by a short circuit which could have been the electrical problem. Andy
252 Hardiwv : This has now been reported as incorrect information, no debris found yet. Rgs,
253 Borism : It's Brazil/Senegal/French Air Force/Navy personnel that are doing SAR mission, AF just relays information from them.
254 Kelebek : Please correct me if I am wrong but as far as i remember physics right the nature of the frequencies HF is operated in is that it is impossible to re
255 LipeGIG : Well and consider also that TP and JJ fly such route with the same plane (A332) before and after AF plane. Plus IB with A343/A346 (not sure the type)
256 RFields5421 : Almost everyday somewhere in the world a long transoceanic flight, or five, loses contact with their home base and / or transoceanic centers for a pe
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