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AF A332 Missing (F-GZCP) - Part 4  
User currently offlineModerators From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 513 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 81098 times:
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Continuing the discussion from Part 3:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4430047/


Please use moderators@airliners.net to contact us.
320 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAndybancroft From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 81158 times:

Did the A/C go in for maintainance - c/d check. As in the brazilian press conferance they said in april it was in for maintainance?

Andy



Equipment: Canon EOS 400D, Canon EF-S 18-55mm, Sigma 70-300mm F4-5.6 DG Macro
User currently offlineDragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 81044 times:



Quote:
ACARS records 4 differents times when it comes to takeoff and landing.

OUT: pushback from the gate
OFF: wheels off the ground
ON: wheels on the ground
IN: aircraft in the gate

That doesnt mean that AF and Brazil will report the same times to the media.



Phrogs Phorever
User currently offlineBreiz From France, joined Mar 2005, 1917 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 80627 times:



Quoting Andybancroft (Reply 1):
Did the A/C go in for maintainance - c/d check. As in the brazilian press conferance they said in april it was in for maintainance?

According to AF, the ac had maintenance recently, level unknown.


User currently offlineEghansen From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 80684 times:

A cell phone can send a signal about 10 miles, sometimes 15 miles if the conditions are perfect. As the aircraft was flying at 35000 feet, that is 7 miles just to the ground, plus the miles from the position of the aircraft to the nearest tower.

The aircraft would have to be within 13 miles horizontal from the nearest tower if the signal was sent 15 miles and the aircraft was flying at 35000 ft.


User currently offlineBaguy From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 546 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 80511 times:

Sorry if this has already been asked, don't want to trawl through 3 threads.

Even if the electrics failed, is there now back up system to control the a/c? Would it have burnt out the whole aircrafts systems? (I am assuming there probably isnt a back as its fly by wire)

Condolences to all families and friends  tombstone 

BAguy  Sad


User currently offlineRadarbeam From Canada, joined Mar 2002, 1310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 80480 times:



Quoting Dragon6172 (Reply 2):
That doesnt mean that AF and Brazil will report the same times to the media.

Why? Only one of the reported time is correct.


User currently offlineAndybancroft From United Kingdom, joined May 2008, 24 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 80493 times:



Quoting Breiz (Reply 3):

According to AF, the ac had maintenance recently, level unknown.


If the maintainance was to do with the electrics and the aircraft was 'shaken up' in the turbulance could a loose connection in the electrics cause the a/c to crash.

Andy



Equipment: Canon EOS 400D, Canon EF-S 18-55mm, Sigma 70-300mm F4-5.6 DG Macro
User currently offlineThegreatRDU From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2310 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 80344 times:

It has to be something immense lightning and turbulence alone can't bring down an A330.....pilot error involved maybe?...they said the flight crew was experience though....I don't know they just have to find this plane though.


Our Returning Champion
User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3011 posts, RR: 47
Reply 9, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 80320 times:
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Quoting Radarbeam (Reply 6):
Why? Only one of the reported time is correct.

I suppose both the "OUT" and "OFF" times are correct, they only mean different things.



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 10, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 80331 times:

New updated list of nationals oboard AF missing flight, 33 nationalities:


- 1 Argentina

- 1 Austria

- 1 Belgium

- 58 Brazil

- 1 Canada

- 9 China

- 1 Croatia

- 1 Denmark

- 5 England

- 1 Estonia

- 61 France

- 1 Gambia

- 26 German

- 1 Holland

- 4 Hungary

- 3 Ireland

- 1 Iceland

- 9 Italy

- 5 Lebanon

- 2 Morrocco

- 3 Norway

- 2 Poland

- 1 Philippines

- 1 Romenia

- 1 Russian Federation

- 3 Slovakia

- 1 South Africa

- 1 Sweden

- 6 Switzerland

- 1 Turkey

- 2 United States

Rgs,

[Edited 2009-06-01 12:57:20]

User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6351 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 80133 times:



Quoting Radarbeam (Reply 6):

Why? Only one of the reported time is correct.

Depends what you define as "correct". An airline is naturally going to always base their departure time on the time they leave the gate, as that determines what an "on-time" flight is. Authorities do not have to please anyone with on-time factors, so they likely go with the more accurate "time their butts were in the air"


User currently offlineBorism From Estonia, joined Oct 2006, 431 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 80132 times:



Quoting Baguy (Reply 5):
Condolences to all families and friends

Don't hang up on them before they have been found, please!

Sure, chances are pretty slim, but don't you want to believe that miracles do happen? We saw one on the Hudson, perhaps we'll see one here.

There are few more evening hours before dawn, let's hope someone is found somewhere!


User currently offlineManuCH From Switzerland, joined Jun 2005, 3011 posts, RR: 47
Reply 13, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 80149 times:
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HEAD MODERATOR



Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 10):
New updated list of nationals oboard AF missing flight, 33 nationalities:

Swiss news sources are quoting there also are 6 Swiss nationals among the passengers. I wonder if there are different sources for passenger lists, or what causes these differences.



Never trust a statistic you didn't fake yourself
User currently offlineEXCOASA1982 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 79940 times:

AF447 doesn't operate daily correct? Is that why it isn't showing up for tonight? I noticed the day light flight from Paris didn't operate today but the night time flight is still on.

User currently offlineDragon6172 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 79942 times:



Quoting SW733 (Reply 11):

Thanks. This is what I was trying to say, did not do a good job of it.



Phrogs Phorever
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 16, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 79725 times:



Quoting ManuCH (Reply 13):
Swiss news sources are quoting there also are 6 Swiss nationals among the passengers. I wonder if there are different sources for passenger lists, or what causes these differences

Apparently the contradiction in the list was due to the fact that many pax had double nationality (as you may know Brazil is a country heavily colonised by European immigrants so it is common for many Brazilians to have double nationality/passport).

Rgs,


User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 79753 times:

Article from Yahoo News :

" A handful of jets have been blown up by lightning, including a Pan American flight in 1963 that killed 83 people. But radar and other improvements in weather forecasting now make thunderstorms - and their lightning - easier to avoid.
In the early 1980s, NASA flew a jet into a thunderstorm on a test. It was hit 72 times in 45 minutes and gave scientists valuable data.
Commercial planes are still hit about once a year, research from the University of Florida has shown. A strike typically starts at a wingtip, nose or tail and courses through the aircraft's skin, which is often made of aluminum-a good conductor. Many strikes are initiated by the plane itself, and most occur during the climb to cruising altitude or descent and when the plane is in a cloud.
The plane's lights might flicker, but most of the energy just heads back into the sky if there are no gaps in the aircraft's skin. "

Personally, i have a LOT of skepticism about the possibility of a single lightning hit can do too much damage to a Wide body aircraft, although can be a problem...maybe they got the lightning + hail of a tennis ball size + heavy turbulence + .......+ (??)...

Anyway.... a sad day really....

Saludos.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 79731 times:

RE the timeline and the 4 hour delay.

Only in 20/20 hindsight can anyone say this is the time when contact was lost.

The maintenance messages which were apparently the last thing sent by the aircraft are not read as they come in by humans. This is an automated maintenance system.

Only when the AF management realized the aircraft might be overdue or introuble would the message logs and detailed messages be reviewed.

That helps to establish a target time and location where the plane MAY have had trouble.

Transoceanic aircraft loose contact almost every day some where in the world. And they restablish contact within a couple hours. Not being in contact is not an immediate emergency.

Also, before sounding an alarm about the aircraft being missing - certain search activities, checks of airports and various ATC centers have to be done.

Another item is that this happened in the middle of the night - the absolute worst time for everyone to pull in people and respond.

Lastly, one thing on Air France management minds may have been the families. If they were sure the aircraft was down, holding a release of the missing aircraft until near arrival time would allow them to gather and break the news to as large a group of families as possible at CDG.


User currently offlineRdwootty From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 904 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 79547 times:

This will make people very wary of flying until the reason is established. There was a spate of aircraft going down in the Bermuda triangle just after the 2nd world war BSSA aircraft. However I cannot remember an aircraft disappearing in the same way recently. In addition there was such a delay between the loss of contact and any reports It does seem very peculiar that the tracking systems did not know where it was. We shall find out next year may be . In the meantime passengers will be very concerned about the possibility of a "" complete" failure of all the aircraft systems.

User currently offlineSW733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6351 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 79548 times:



Quoting EXCOASA1982 (Reply 14):
AF447 doesn't operate daily correct? Is that why it isn't showing up for tonight? I noticed the day light flight from Paris didn't operate today but the night time flight is still on.

An earlier poster in a previous thread mentioned that tonights flight was canceled. I have a bad feeling we will never see an AF0447 again...


User currently offlineNoelg From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 79534 times:



Quoting ThegreatRDU (Reply 8):
pilot error involved maybe?...they said the flight crew was experience though

An experienced crew aren't necessarily any more immune to making mistakes, mistakes can still happen and be deadly.

However, since no facts are still known and there is still a slim chance there are survivors out there somewhere, we shouldn't speculate anything. In the meantime we just hope and pray that a miracle has happened somewhere.


User currently offlineFlaps30 From United States of America, joined May 2009, 288 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 79218 times:

With the huge amount of postings on this topic, forgive me if I am repeating this question but has anyone heard from some of the other aircraft in the same area around the same time to see if they encountered any of the supposedly severe turbulence from this line of thunderstorms and severe weather. One other question I have that sadly may never be known is why didnt the plane deviate from this weather IF their radar was working>


every day is a good day to fly
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11451 posts, RR: 58
Reply 23, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 79204 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR



Quoting Baguy (Reply 5):
Even if the electrics failed, is there now back up system to control the a/c? Would it have burnt out the whole aircrafts systems? (I am assuming there probably isnt a back as its fly by wire)

We don't know what happen but for sure it's strange.

Quoting Breiz (Reply 3):
According to AF, the ac had maintenance recently, level unknown

Exactly, they only mentioned the date: April 19. Seems to be a C check giving the fact the aircraft had just 4 years of service.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 24, posted (5 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 78970 times:

The following quote is from an article - not the words of the person making the post.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 17):
But radar and other improvements in weather forecasting now make thunderstorms - and their lightning - easier to avoid

Unfortunately those improvements are minimal for this flight. That far out in the ocean, the most reliable weather reports are those from other pilots flying in the area at the same time.

The band of storms measures almost 500-600 miles wide by the best I can do on the maps.

The on-board weather rader would have shown a wide band of storms with some cells stronger than other. But there would most likely have been a clear path through the wave front on the radar.

And this occured in the dark of night - not the best chance to see and avoid dangerous cloud formations.


25 MadameConcorde : Poster on FlyerTalk said AF cancelled today's AF447. I wonder if they could have changed the flight number and still do the flight?
26 Post contains links Cchan : Sorry if this has been mentioned before. I was reading the BBC news, and in the column under the correspondent's photo, it says the data message repor
27 TexaSkies : I have been in meetings, all day, and unable to watch news.....what is the latest? Have they spotted any wreckage? What a sad day for AF and most espe
28 RFields5421 : We don't know if they did not deviate. If they did alter their flight path to avoid weather, that would make finding the aircraft much, much harder.
29 SW733 : Not sure the rules but then you might run into a whole slew of problems with it legally being a "schedule change", etc. Not to mention the fact that
30 Post contains links MadameConcorde : PPRuNe post with link: http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL1719357 Reuters reporting 2 flights on the same/similar tracks, one 30 mins a
31 CF-CPI : I had this exact thought. The lightning issue has been covered from every angle, but despite the advances in lightning dissipation on modern aircraft
32 LongHaul67 : Wrt cell phone text messages from passengers of AF447, this is 100% pure hoax. There is just no way there is any mobile phone coverage for the same re
33 Post contains links Gonzalo : Thank you for not making me responsible ...and thank you for your informed post about the weather rad....i post the article just because in many news
34 PHKLM : Human minds, how corrupted they are. Tonight hundreds of passengers will use that same airway en route from Europe to GRU, EZE, SCL and vv, saying to
35 Macc : orf.at now says authorities have narrowed the area the plane went missing to a few dozen nautical miles, halfway between brazil and africa. that might
36 Hardiwv : According to Brazil news AF asked for 20 volunteers on tonight flights to GRU and GIG to accommodate a strong AF team of psychologist, technical exper
37 Borism : Inop WX radar at night? As has been said several times already on this thread.
38 AF1624 : I usually hate speculation and those who speculate but i'm going to give it a go as this case is both extremely strange and scary for me at the same
39 Post contains links and images Hardiwv : I already posted the photo of the area in which the rescue teams are searching, but will do it again, ie. 770 km off the coast of FER (Fernando de No
40 PHKLM : Those "volunteers" will be trained AF employees that can be asked to go, in that sense they "volunteer".
41 Hardiwv : This is complete nonsense. GIG airport is excellent and has the longest runaway in Brazil, AF is very reputable airline, and the route of the missing
42 N318EA : Maybe I was watching FOX at a different time, but one of the "idiots" discussing this terrible incident was Capt. Dennis E. Fitch from United 262.
43 RFields5421 : Remember they are out in a very dark ocean at night, far beyond any detailed coverate by weather professionals. Other pilot reports would be their mo
44 Offloaded : Nothing in the rules about changing a flight number. A lot airlines do it. The airlines send it through the GDS's (Galileo will show TK (time chg) or
45 PHKLM : Hardiwv, most likely not your fault but I definitely did NOT say that, you are quoting someone else.
46 Flaps30 : Has anyone heard if this flight encountered any severe turbulence or had to deviate its flight path around the storm
47 Hardiwv : What I meant by volunteers were pax departing tonight on AF flights to GRU and GIG which were asked to volunteer their seats to accommodate for about
48 757GB : Very interesting theory. As you say, hard to believe, but it fits what's known up to now I think. It could even explain why pilots could not communic
49 Jawed : The automatic message that was transmitted from the plane, how was it sent? Via what frequency (UHF)? And where was it received? In Europe? or in Braz
50 PHKLM : Thanks for the clarification! Interesting piece of information! I recall THY send an A330 to AMS after the TK crash at SPL, though IST-AMS is a bit e
51 BAViscount : I've read in the past that often an airline's sales will increase following a major incident, based on people's psychological beliefs that the airlin
52 JBirdAV8r : Nice try, but no. EXTREMELY unlikely that lightning may crack and cause failure of a multi-paned reinforced cockpit window. Even a weakened one (say
53 Post contains links Hardiwv : Sorry, no worries. No information, but last week a TAM A332 encountered severe turbulence on route MIA-GRU leading to many injured pax and about 10 w
54 Post contains links 2H4 : I wonder how likely it is that this was caused by hazardous cargo, similar to Valujet 592, in which mis-labeled chemical oxygen containers started a f
55 LGA777 : Normally I would think AF would operate at least one flight to bring in their own staff to assist and one for relatives. However in most cases these
56 Aviators99 : Too much attention is being drawn to lightning when discussing catastrophic failure, I assuming because of the electrical failure reported by ACARS. L
57 Post contains links AF1624 : Nice try with what exactly ? And Hail generally comes from ? CB's. Right. Which in more common terms may be referred to as... Thunderstorm. True. But
58 UK_Dispatcher : ,"They have stretched it and stretched it. I am afraid to say that at some stage there had to be this sort of incident. Former BA captain Eric Moody s
59 JBirdAV8r : With a theory. But it's far-fetched and ill-informed. Thanks for the sarcasm. You are the one who mentioned lightning. See? THAT is not possible. Hai
60 RJ111 : What a sad day. You can bet it's going to be a long time until we find out the cause of this crash.
61 Cchan : It would make more sense if he was a VS captain!
62 Khobar : Was the flight running late by chance?
63 UALWN : Another colleague of mine was on last night's IB6024 that left GIG for MAD 10 minutes after AF447. He told me that he didn't notice any abnormal turbu
64 EMA747 : I agree with whoever said that there is too much emphais on the ACARS message and the terbulence. The electircal problems message could have been the
65 Ferengi80 : Just to clarify, it was United 232, not 262. I may be going way off the mark here, but what are the chances that, maybe, just maybe, they managed to
66 UALWN : Last night's TP178 GIG-LIS was a 343. I was on it. On my way there a week ago TP179 was indeed operated with a 332.
67 Zeke : Just need to keep in mind we need to keep physics/meoroligical principles in mind. Whilst lightning can come from the top and side of CBs, it is almo
68 Post contains links Famfflores : According to cnn: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/am...06/01/air.france.brazil/index.html "....The first three hours of what was to have been an 11-
69 SASDC8 : Totally agree. There is no way that these text messages are from pax on AF447 after they reached cruise altitude from their GSM phones. I am sorry to
70 Borism : With much of the area of concern in darkness already I assume they're calling off airborne SAR teams for today without much luck?
71 SEPilot : This is extremely puzzling and shoots my theory about an explosion all to pieces. It is quite strange that the computers can talk over the radio and
72 Post contains links KingFriday013 : I don't think anyone posted this yet, but CNN has an article praising the A330's "impeccable safety record": http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americ...ir
73 Alias1024 : That was where my first thought went to. In-flight fire caused by cargo like Valuejet 592 or the South African 747 that crashed into the Indian Ocean
74 2H4 : Why? Is it unfathomable to think that an explosion of some kind could start fires that instantly disable certain systems (radio communications) but n
75 Khobar : Aren't aircraft now equipped with cargo hold fire suppression equipment, specifically because of the past issues?
76 Flyboy2001 : I'm curious, does anyone know if there are sonobuoy-like listening devices that could be dropped from aircraft, that are capable of picking up the sig
77 CasInterest : The pilots not talking could have been the loss of radio, or perhaps the pressure loss that was reported in the messages. I am sure that while consci
78 VS030 : Apart from a catastrophic break up, as quite a few people suspect: After electrical power is lost, by my knowledge, pilots are still supposed to keep
79 CityhopperNL : now this is indeed very useful information, I would imagine that investigators would want to hear this, I think these flights must have been on the s
80 Mal787 : Sorry but I have not gone through all the threads, But is it possible that due to a weather radar failure, that the crew flew into some CB that was to
81 Jbernie : not completely, if there were to have been some kind of explosion it would depend on where on the aircraft it occured, what systems impacted etc. Dep
82 EMA747 : That was my first thought on reading what was quoted. Would the faults not have been flagged up on the pilots displays? I cannot think that if the me
83 SEPilot : I just find it highly unlikely that the electrical system would be configured so that the pilots' communication radios would ALL be knocked out and y
84 Post contains links IH8BY : " target=_blank>http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americ....html What, "despite only having two engines"? (Sky News, http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wor
85 LHR380 : Have just lost any respect I had for him now. What a totally stupid dumb comment to make!
86 LipeGIG : It's just for a few days. Which means flights continues to be full. Good for AF, they're a very good airline over all. Interesting piece of informati
87 Willd : I heard Moody being interviewed on Sky and what they have quoted him as saying has been taken slightly out of context in his defence. He had prior to
88 Gonzalo : With all due respect, I think both of you are wrong. I like the miracles, and always got a little hope even in the worst situations ( I live in Chile
89 Post contains links 44k : Just to put a period on this: AF reporting the OUT time of the Gate in GIG, while The Brazilian air-force reporting the OFF time, runway departure. A
90 JFernandez : Got to admit that the one thing I'm being reminded of is the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster - a lot of error messages sent from the craft to mission
91 Sebjacques92 : Does anyone know what the procedure for Air France is when there is an accident? Like do they send out a fleet wide message using ACARS telling crews
92 Cchan : Also the reporter, who invented a new airline called "Quantas"
93 2H4 : Not my quote....seems to be another "phantom quote" glitch... 2H4
94 Hardiwv : One flight was cancelled creating overbooking. Many pax also asking for change to KLM. This is natural after the problem. TK also suffered in AMS aft
95 IH8BY : oh and "Ethiad" too, while we're at it.
96 Borism : Why would few survive but most perish? I think you're jumping onto conclusions without having any information. Albeit, many here do the same. I sure
97 Brunopt : I heard in the news, the president of the portuguese union of pilots saying that the Tap flights that passed through the zone ("slightly to the west")
98 LipeGIG : Or something like what happen to Gol flight over the jungle. Something happen during the turbulence and lead to a sequence of events that produced a
99 Aerobalance : Bingo, my thoughts exactly, glad to see someone caught on!
100 Gonzalo : Oooops !!!!.... ( I know for sure I press the correct button, so this is another "phantom glitch" like you said ) . Saludos G.
101 Alias1024 : First, the second quote was mine, not 2H4. It's no glitch. If you use the proper quote button, the one above the post you want to quote, it will attr
102 SEPilot : It is certainly true that violent turbulence can be extremely localized and of short duration, so the fact that other planes did not encounter it doe
103 777jaah : I'm wondering, how long it can take falling from 35.000 feet?? If the aircraft was spinning and desintegrating, maybe that's when the ACARS started se
104 LipeGIG : Welcome to A.Net. This is interesting to know. The first time another crew reports heavy turbulence in the area.
105 Flighty : While I do not consider it likely, what about a bomb?
106 Petertenthije : I am puzzled about the 4 minutes here. Would that mean the "connection" is slow, or that there where several short messages over the course of 4 minu
107 FlyPIJets : Couple of things after reading all of this. Once I read that the ACARS messages were over a four minutes period, this crossed my mind as well. We migh
108 777fan : Don't know if anyone has mentioned this (I don't have time to review 100s of posts) but has anyone given any thought to a computer failure ala the QF
109 SEPilot : I certainly would not rule it out; in fact, it is high on my list of suspects. But that is just my own speculation based on what I have read here.
110 A350 : I think this possibility, although unlikely, needs thorough investigation. It's so far the only (more or less) complete scenario we have. Best wishes
111 B747forever : Yes it has been mentioned already, and it is a possibility
112 Danielb : ....is there any similarity to the Qantas A330 that dropped several hundred feet over the Pacific last year?? (I haven't got time to sift through 400
113 LH648 : I've experienced lightning strike on KLM's 332 - no big deal...
114 Flyboy2001 : I have been wondering the same thing. If the plane was unable to stay aloft but the ACARS was largely intact, could the message have been sent during
115 Gonzalo : Hi ! Like I said in post 100, i'm sure i press the correct button, so calm down, take it easy and smile, it was just a software glitch. About the sec
116 Lowrider : Remember that Capt. Moody was Captain on BA002, which lost all 4 engines near Jakarta due to volcanic ash. So a dual engine failure may not seemed th
117 B747forever : That is possible. Because didnt the ACARS report different parts of the a/c breaking (apart), or something similar?
118 Danielb : ....sorry, that must have been what 777Fan was referring to. ) :
119 Klemmi85 : Going for the 4 minutes of transmission.... I don't know at what speed those msgs are transmitted, BUT in a four minute connection I can transmit hell
120 LipeGIG : Need to be something that prevent pilots to talk and does not destroy the aircraft because you need to remember the computer sent a 4 minutes extensi
121 Springbok747 : What is so frustrating about this is that until any wreckage is found, AF447 can't be listed as crashed and the people can't be listed as dead. I can'
122 Klemmi85 : AFAIK, the RAT deploys on double-flameout only and delivers minimum electricity and hydraulics. If electricity is still delivered by the engines but
123 Brunopt : He refers exactly that point, the turbulence can vary from one point to another. Obrigado LipeGIG!
124 413X3 : but the RAT would deploy and they would at least have enough juice for basic controls and to radio an emergency.
125 Hoppe777 : Oh god, how terrible...... I hope they find something......
126 JCS : VHF radio might be out of coverage and HF may take too long and with too weak signal. SatCom connection takes some time to establish and going throug
127 B747forever : So true. I wonder for how long they will try to look for the wreckage. I mean at one point, if they dont find anything they will have to stop, right?
128 Lowrider : Unless part of the catastrophic failure so affected the electrical system so as to render this impossible. Without more facts it is difficult to say.
129 Pihero : I am still amazed at the amount of speculations this forum can generate, most of them just based on some very uninformed guesses and not a lot on phys
130 Alitis : Totally WAG, but, I'm recalling high school physics here, i remember my physics teacher telling us something to the effect that if things fall from t
131 JetA380 : Local news in Australia is now reporting that the search has been suspended, as it is now nighttime in Brazil.
132 Zeke : I would think this is a likely response to the crew carrying out some ECAM/checklist procedure. For example is they had smoke or fums detected in the
133 Post contains links Incitatus : Good map. It seems the point of lost contact was close to the St Peter and Paul Rocks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Peter_and_Paul_Rocks That's
134 Klemmi85 : Would be something around 3:10min - 3:25min given a little tolerance.
135 B747forever : Yet another night without finding anything. Everything so far have been fruitless.
136 TrnsWrld : Although you are correct this is an aircraft that was travelling around 520knots. Unless this airplane literally disintegrated into millions of piece
137 Aerobalance : Has anybody claimed responsibility for a bomb? Usually somebody does quickly to take advantage of the possible exposure to their plight or reasoning
138 KingFriday013 : If the circuits are fried, any sort of power or electricity still wouldn't be able to get anywhere. The circuits are incapable of transferring electr
139 AirNZ : I would tend to disagree, and noting it was at 35,000 feet.......was a Mayday sent at Lockerbie (a question as I can't remember offhand)?
140 Post contains links Mortyman : French authorities has asked the USA for help in locating the aircraft, using US spysatelites and listningdevices: http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/u
141 JCS : But if the aircraft would be falling apart the messaging would probably not work and if the aircraft was NOT falling apart it would probably take lon
142 LipeGIG : I'm not a specialist, but if AF wants to say just a message, they would say and i will believe should be a package that could be sent in seconds. But
143 SAS-A321 : If you enter severe turbulence you will not have any control of the aircraft.
144 Jbguller : Was just thinking the same thing. Can I make a slight change to your post though: we don't just have zero, we have 4 pages of zero. Unfortunately, th
145 EC001 : This is sad.... I've just got the news minutes ago, and I was in disbelief. I've been reading some of your posts here. Interesting enough. But all I c
146 SEPilot : A plane that has lost aerodynamic control will usually go into some kind of spin. This may fall considerably slower vertically than an object of the
147 Wexfordflyer : A question my Dad asked out of curiosity. I know some (and assume all) aircraft are fitted with emergency locater transmitters which will emit a signa
148 Mir : Airplanes have ELTs which serve that purpose. The FDR and CVR also have locator beacons. I know the FDR/CVR beacons work underwater, and for quite so
149 B747forever : True. For instance when I flew about two months ago from LAX to EWR our 757 was tossed around like crazy because of turbulence. It almost felt like t
150 L1011Lover : No Mayday was sent from PA103 over Lockerbie... it happened too quickly, too sudden... the pilots didn't even have time to grab oxygen masks... the a
151 Post contains links and images KingFriday013 : This photo was just shown on NBC Nightly News View Large View MediumPhoto © Gabriel Widyna Had a very good report in my opinion (reporting-wise).
152 AirNZ : Thanks for that info L1011Lover! As I said, I couldn't remember offhand. Frightening similarity to this tragic incident. I honestly cannot see it bei
153 VC-10 : I don't know if this has already been mentioned,the maintenance messages that Airbus's send out consist of 1 Cockpit effect (what message the crew see
154 ADent : If the SMS proves to be true, then the plane had to be within 35 to 100 km of a cell tower. If the plane was having problems then it would likely turn
155 Gulfstream650 : Sadly this is plane is one for the Lutine Bell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Lutine_(1779)#The_Lutine_Bell) Very sad indeed.
156 Wexfordflyer : Thanks for that.
157 Starlionblue : Incorrect. According to the definition, turbulence means that "aircraft MAY be out of control for short periods." There is still positive control mos
158 Comorin : It's too soon to use the word 'Vanish' for this unfortunate flight. If the aircraft did indeed go down catastrophically in the Atlantic, it would have
159 KingFriday013 : I keep saying this, but no one seems to notice. Does anyone remember Adam Air 574? Took over 7 months to find the black boxes, and the wreckage and bo
160 Mir : This is true for severe turbulence. However there is such a thing as "extreme turbulence", which is where the aircraft is not controllable, and where
161 Trystero : Some late night, a couple years ago there was a doc on TV about some kind of extra strong lightning storms that had something to do with the kind of e
162 Vivavegas : AIR FRANCE FLIGHT 447 -- The aircraft was about 60 miles south of the Cape Verde Islands, according to the Brazilian air force
163 SAS-A321 : Thanks for correcting me... I intended to write in extreme turbulence.
164 Post contains links Hagic : According to (in Portuguese) http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/cotidiano/ult95u574965.shtml a TAM pilot covering the trans-atlantic route has provide
165 Boeing747_600 : One of the BBC reports mentioned "hail stones larger than tennis balls". Assuming that this is true, could the windshield of a modern jetliner like th
166 N6238P : First let me start by saying my thoughts and prayers go out to the families and friends of the passengers and crew. Now onto a question geared towards
167 Tietkej : There are so many scenarios for what could have possibly gone wrong. I do hope light is shed on this tragedy soon enough. I am startled by the apparen
168 CURLYHEADBOY : If for slumping forward on the yokes, you mean falling unconscious on the yoke, it's impossible for airbuses have sidesticks....
169 7324ever : Great one I didn't even think of that that's an awesome point
170 Mir : That possibility is very remote indeed, since it's a 330 and thus has a sidestick instead of a yoke. -Mir
171 Bristolflyer : Hailstones at cruising altitude? Could that really happen?
172 Flashmeister : There is no wreckage. There is no evidence that the thing disintegrated mid-air. None. Thus theorizing about terrorism strikes me as entirely prematu
173 Spacecadet : But if that's true about the hail stones, it is still possible they could have punched in the windshield and left it open to more hail stones coming i
174 Ei2ksea : Reuters is currently reporting that a TAM flight today (Monday) may have spotted debris in the ocean in Senegalese airspace. The Brazillian airforce a
175 Congaboy : I know enough about ACARS and SatCom to injure myself, but I think one possible explanation for the "four minutes" could be the result of the satelli
176 Bristolflyer : There is wreckage, it just hasn't been found yet.
177 TrnsWrld : That is not correct. What you described IS severe turbulence. Not sure where you came up with extreme turbulence. I am an Air Traffic Controller so i
178 Mayor : To us at DL, "OUT" meant out of the gate, while "OFF" meant off the ground.
179 LHR380 : It only took so long because the Adam Air managers did not want to pay for the search and recovery of it. Watched Air Crash investigations the other
180 Boeing747_600 : And quite apparently, neither did I! Well, I would imagine that the ensuing decompression would have created a degree of havoc on the flight deck any
181 KingFriday013 : Oh. Never mind then, I had no idea that was the case. The Adam Air management should have been ashamed of themselves. How inconsiderate. Here's to a
182 Post contains links Hmmmm... : To me, the cause most likely is lightning striking a major non-grounded component. This link describes what some experts have feared for a long time n
183 Flyorski : Inconsiderate? It should have been criminal, refusing to pay for recovery of evidence which might have incriminated the company, or its maintenance s
184 7673mech : Out and off are the same pretty much everywhere. Out means leaving gate - brakes released. Off means off the ground. The reason Brasil and Airfrance m
185 Dz09 : I found out about this minutes before my flight from CDG to EWR took off. I was on AF flight 18 (also an A330) and the mood on that flight was very so
186 Gonzalo : I remember that doc too. They shown some amazing NASA's films of real "rivers of electricity", with a length of dozens of kilometers and the shape of
187 Richierich : Is it too soon to ask for a recap of the facts as we know them? After literally hundreds of posts and dozens of news 'updates', what do we know so far
188 Allegro : First let me too express my condolences and prayers to the passengers and their loved ones and to all AF personnel who I am sure are greiving for the
189 Mirrodie : I just trudged through only Part 4 and have to ask, what are the FACTS so far? THis thread seems like TONS of speculation and chest beating over who h
190 PITrules : Mir is correct, the definition of "Extreme Turbulence" can be found in AIM 7-1-24 (table 7-1-9) I've only ever heard the term used in flight once.
191 Midcon385 : That's the definition I've learned as well. Often on modern aircraft these are automatically sent to company dispatch via ACARS, and the times are de
192 Richierich : I've flown in a hailstorm while overflying the Alps in a B732 some years back, some crazy turbulence. The noise was funny to me at the time (what the
193 Tietkej : Is this verified information? If so it would be astounding.
194 Mayor : We used to roll the 727s about 6 inches off of the gate at departure time if we were still waiting for bags or if there was traffic behind us. That wa
195 LipeGIG : The facts are: - The plane is still missing - AF says a 4 min message has been automatically sent by the plane - No signal of mayday or any contact b
196 Multimark : And another called "Air Transit".
197 Post contains links Asuflyer : A very vague report of debris sightings by a TAM plane http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/cotidiano/ult95u574965.shtml (in portuguese only)
198 F9Animal : I sure hope they are able to locate the debris field, and recover the CVR/FDR. I am really curious as to know what the crew was discussing before the
199 Jetblueguy22 : What maintenance is done on the aircraft during a C check? Also this is coming from an aviation enthusiast but is there anyway that the plane went int
200 Mir : Take a look at AIM 7-1-23 (Table 7-1-8): Severe Turbulence: Turbulence that causes large, abrupt changes in altitude and/or attitude. It usually caus
201 Trystero : Thanks for the complement, but not really. Any way it's nice to know that someone else recall this. I believe that one of the tasks the space shuttle
202 LHR380 : I know its been sorta mentioned somewhere, but have they picked up the ELT's from the CVR and Black Box yet do we know?
203 Airproxx : Hi everyone, I just heard the news about the loss of an AF A330 as I stepped off my plane bringing me back to Orly this morning, after passing 3 days
204 Mestrugo : Dude, that's an urban myth. Regarding the thing about extremely powerful electrical discharges on the higher layers of the atmosphere, they've been d
205 777Mike : From Reuters: "Brazil's air force said it was investigating a report that a jetliner flown by Brazilian carrier TAM had spotted debris in the ocean in
206 AmricanShamrok : Here's an updated list of the deceased: France 61 Brazil 58 Germany 26 China 9 Italy 9 Switzerland 6 Great Britain 5 Lebanon 5 Hungary 4 Norway 3 Slov
207 Mayor : I don't know about that. Ever see the movie "Defending Your Life" with Albert Brooks and Meryl Streep? Earthlings were referred to as "little brains"
208 Post contains links Flyorski : Here is a link: http://www.nssl.noaa.gov/primer/lightning/ltg_tle.html
209 Post contains links Mir : Just out of curiosity, which version of the AIM are you using? Because somehow we're looking at the same table with a different number. For those int
210 EMA747 : How far out does Senegal air space go? The earlier reports if I remember correctly said that the search was much nearer Brazil.
211 Pawsleykat : I've been following this story for 12 hours now and have been hoping and praying all afternoon that by the time I was ready to go to bed we'd have hea
212 Gonzalo : Hahaha OK, no problem, maybe I'm the only one using the 10% of the brain lately Thanks for the info about this Transient Luminous Events, is a very w
213 Allegro : Ok ... we are off topic and I was not going to repsond the first one, but now that others have jumped in ... I am a neuroscientist/bioengineer and ha
214 Viscount724 : No, the FAA definition of severe turbulence (below) says the aircraft may be out of control only momentarily, meaning that it is generally still unde
215 Jbernie : Depends on how the system works and I have no knowledge of how it does, if as an example you have a computer monitoring a network that connects throu
216 Pilotaydin : Some of the posts on here are just...well...wild for lack of a better word... I fly the A330/A340, if anyone wants to talk about the electrical and ai
217 Worldliner : Thoughts are with the families of the missing. But on a more business note - will this affect possible sales of A330s at the paris air show, maybe IB
218 Post contains links Jbguller : It was only so long before local media started comparing AF447 to local airlines. News.com.au is comparing this flight with the QF A333 that had sudde
219 PITrules : Sorry, I grabbed a hard copy off the library shelf; it is dated 2007. Looks like the chart numbers changed, but the data should be the same.
220 FlyPIJets : Regarding hail's ability to shatter a windshield, I believe Southern 242 lost a windshield to hail. So it has happened before. I always think of this
221 Wjcandee : Zeke suggested that some of these maintenance reports could have been transmitted while the pilots were troubleshooting, which is possible; however, g
222 StasisLAX : Senegal government reports finding wreckage in ocean - trying to verify if wreckage is AF447 Source:http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Mundo/0,,MUL1178988-5
223 FlyASAGuy2005 : All the speculation is crazy. It's one thing when we sort of know what happened. I.E. Colgan Q400 or Comair, but another when we haven't even fund th
224 SA006 : First thing that came to my mind this morning when I heard of this crash was Swissair 111 and SA295 "Helderberg" Now heres something I would like to a
225 Flyorski : I really hope so! This is really what is needed, some closure. Of course if they find survivors that would be the best outcome.. not that its likely.
226 RUHFlyer : Very awful news .. may they rest in peace ! and my condolences to their families and friends
227 ORDflier : First off... my thoughts are with those who are touched personally by this event... As this forum is generally about speculation and granted it is way
228 Starlionblue : Hi Pilotaydin. Nice to see you are online. Questions for you and other 330/340 pilots: - How many redundant electrical systems does the aircraft have
229 Post contains images S.p.a.s. : Not exactly Senegalese airspace per se, but Dakar Oceanic FIR extends a lot into the ocean. For those not familiar with this particular area, this im
230 SXDFC : I remember waking up this morning half asleep when I saw the headline on my computer that read "Passenger Plane Missing In Atlantic" with pictures of
231 Peergynt : Airplanes are certainly beautiful and it never ceases to impress me whenever I have an the opportunity to watch them taking of or landing. Magnificent
232 Zeke : That has no been established at all. As I mentioned on one of the previous threads, you need the main AC1 bus operating for these reports to be trans
233 Post contains links RayChuang : I may sound like a "tinfoil hat" person for saying this, but if we find a debris field of aircraft remains spread over a large swath of ocean surface
234 Starlionblue : I don't think you need a tinfoil hat for that one. Since there is no way of knowing right now, bombing cannot be excluded as a cause. It'll be up the
235 Dougbr2006 : That would not not create the reported electrical fault and probably not depressurization. The crew would at least have got a mayday out if it were a
236 787kq : "À tarde o centro de buscas da Aeronáutica entrou em contato com autoridades do Senegal após surgir a informação de que uma equipe de resgate af
237 N314as : I have the feeling that the tail separated in heavy turbulence in a violent yaw. Remember the American A300 over NYC in October 2001. The plane yawed
238 Mir : The longer it goes without someone claiming responsibility, the less likely that looks. -Mir
239 Trex8 : I'm not sure that debris spread over a large area is any more indicative of a bomb than any other catastrophic structural failure if the plane fell f
240 Post contains links Asuflyer : According to Bloomberg the TAM plane saw flashes of light some 800 miles from Fernando de Noronha. If this is right that would place the postion of th
241 FlyPIJets : Thanks for reminding everyone this - I thought the ACARS messages were being escalated in intensity as echos of this technology are being bounced aro
242 Post contains links Tradewinds : Although it's probably been done on here a million times... You have to qualify that statement. Is it less safe than staying in your living room? Sur
243 Jcs17 : SR111 crashed in one hundred or two hundred feet of water and they were able to recover most of the aircraft including the faulty wiring. Helderberg
244 Carls : Well at this point I suspect we have an endless possibilities.Bomb, Electrical failure, Major Structural failure, engine failure, lightning strike, s
245 EMA747 : A few people have said a bomb is a possibility, which I would not like to rule out at this point. On the other hand not much has been discussed about
246 Pilotaydin : Hey there nice to see you too Well here we go, now some versions of the A330 may be slightly different so keep that in mind, some things are company
247 BlueElephant : I see you're new around here, Suggestion: don't say such things around here, especially in threads like this. Flying is safe, MUCH safer then driving
248 Wnbob : It still amazes me every time an incident like this happens, with today instant global telecommunication and teens carrying GPS-awared phones, why the
249 EA772LR : Usually terrorist organizations, namely al qaeda, are happy to claim such tragedies. But there's still a chance that it is an act of terrorism. True.
250 Jcs17 : That's not necessarily true. The Libyans, obviously, never claimed responsibility for PA103. Also, in slightly more recent times, Ramzi Yousef and Al
251 Akhristov : PBS had a news story just now, and the guy they had on talked about how the ACARS message is probably more detailed than what the general public knows
252 Wexfordflyer : Bit of a sweeping statement to make and obviously not thought out. I think people tend to think flying is not safe as when you hear of accidents they
253 AT : I was actually surprised to hear that it was an A330. I thought the media might have gotten it wrong, and it must be an A340 but it turned out it was
254 FlyPIJets : to be sure. and I am sure these messages point to a lot as well.
255 Akhristov : I would guess so, otherwise they wouldn't be using it on the route. The range didn't cause the problem though, this incident occurred during the firs
256 Post contains links and images Dehowie : It has plenty..2xengine gens, APU, Emerg Gen and two batts..the chances of losing all electrics is so small as to not be considered during pilot trai
257 DreamsUnited : That is exactly what I thought, this morning my mom woke me up to tell me the news, I thought, an A330? couldn't have been... maybe she meant an A340
258 Post contains links Springbok747 : Its 228..not 288 thankfully. Aviation safety have already listed the people as 'fatalities'.. Crew: Fatalities: 12 / Occupants: 12 Passengers: Fatali
259 Pilotaydin : what do you mean??
260 Mal787 : Sorry guys Repost of an earlier question, may have got missed as this thread is growing at a rapid rate of knots . mal787
261 RFields5421 : A lot good comments above - but remember when something starts going wrong on a airplane - the crew's first response, first job is to diagnose and tr
262 Akhristov : Your guess is as good as mine at this point.
263 Luvflng : In the airline I work for, if the weather radar becomes inop and the flight is heading to a known line of severe weather it is an automatic divert. O
264 TDubJFK : Why did he fly into a bad storm?
265 Richiemo : Heard an airline analyst on a radio talk show tonight (didn't catch his name).He claims that this plane wouldn't have had the fuel do any kind of seri
266 Antonioavelar : Portuguese TV is reporting that Senegal found some debris that are yet to be confirmed as being part of the A330.
267 JBirdAV8r : For what it's worth, I agree with you. I'm really not all that certain it has to do with the systems on the airplane, either.
268 D L X : That seems like Dakar has control WAY far out into the Atlantic, and it also seems like Brazil really isn't that far from Dakar. Could you cross the
269 Pilotaydin : If it's daytime and you don't have weather radar, you can avoid to some extent if it's not too embedded if it's night and you are without wx radar, t
270 Dehowie : Training for the loss of all electrics..ie engine gens,apu, emerg gen and all batteries is not covered for the obvious reason that there will always
271 RFields5421 : That part of the world is almost always stormy this time of year. Bad is a relative term. An aircraft 30 minutes - 250 miles ahead of the AF bird and
272 Dehowie : Personally as a Captain on a transpost aircraft if my wx radar is U/S then i am diverting to land if confronted with a line of weather at night. The
273 Superfly : My condolences to all aboard and close loved ones of this flight. I just hope that a Hudson River-like landing happened and all aboard are at sea in l
274 Pilotaydin : Well...I'm really sad, that people, lives, and families are stuck looking for a way out or were in terror if they did go down, and just you know...sa
275 Pilotaydin : ahh ok, sorry i mis read your original post, forgive me it's 520 am here ive been up all night tracking this situation...
276 S.p.a.s. : Around 3.5~4 hours, on a Mach.80 aircraft, wind taken in account. More or less from INTOL (or a little before) ahead until Sal FIR, close to POMAT po
277 S.p.a.s. : 2 radar "boxes", right? But one antenna.
278 D L X : I thank you for your candor. We both know you'll be fine. You know it extremely well! And I'd fly with you any day. (Just gotta get to Turkey.) it re
279 Pilotaydin : I didn;t write that, but somehow you quoted me??
280 IADCA : I really hate to speculate much on this, but is it even remotely possible that the order of the error messages might be used to figure out what was w
281 Dehowie : Yea correct..
282 Pilotaydin : I was thinking, and maybe in the future this will be taken into account.... If a search and rescue were to start, they should be able to upload onto a
283 D L X : I asked that, not Pilotaydin. But thanks for the answer! That's not far from what I figured. So, basically about 1:45 out of radar? That's not all th
284 Post contains links Tymnbalewne : Fire spotted? http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wor..._Ocean_Near_Route_Of_Missing_Plane
285 Virgin744 : Aydin abi, I hope you have a nice flight tomorrow and it passes as an uneventful journey. With regards to the AF incident I think if there's anything
286 EXAAUADL : Bin Laden has essentially taken responsibility. He said they didnt expect the towers to completely fall, Only to collapse to the point where impact w
287 B747forever : If that is indeed true, it is a breakthrough, even though it is a sign for something horrible.
288 D L X : You must live near me! God did it suck this morning. Indeed. Your morning mirrored mine.
289 F9Animal : Oh yes it has. In fact, I am sure it has happened a few times. I recall one where the aircraft crashed near Mt. Fuji. I could look it up, but I am on
290 Pilotaydin : Thanks ) Still though, kinda scary to think about it all isn't it?!
291 N314as : Anything can be a possibility...up to total structural failure. These are machines and they are not perfect. Turbulence HAS brought down commercial p
292 Post contains links 9V-SVC : Quote from Skynews http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Wor...tems_Failure,_Says_Aviation_Expert It seems that Airfrance are having a lot of mishaps in re
293 SASD209 : BOAC 707, or am I thinking of a different one?
294 LipeGIG : You said it all. We all know that the terrible situations were landing and take off.... now, up to the time we know what happens with AF447 GIG-CDG !
295 Post contains links B747forever : Here is a crash caused by turbulence http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19660305-1
296 Post contains links StasisLAX : From Bloomberg News: "The plane sent 10 automated distress messages before it vanished, said Air France-KLM Group Chief Executive Officer Pierre Henri
297 ThirtyEcho : Maybe, just maybe, there is somebody down there in the Atlantic, for a second might, still alive. Maybe there is a small inflatable raft with several
298 D L X : Absolutely. I fly a lot, as do many of us here. I was in the air just this week even, and some times, you know, it's a little scary. But I'll tell yo
299 RFields5421 : Remember the weather is still pretty rough and stormy out in that region even 24 hours after the plane is presumed to have gone down.
300 N83SF : Is it just me, or is it strange that there are no specific reports of what the distress signals/ACARS messages included?
301 VTBDflyer : John Nance knows what he's talking about. I believe he was a NTSB investigator, I've read his book. I'd trust his judgment over any news reporter.
302 Pilotaydin : You're right, the difficult part about the crash, is probably the ones left behind...let's face it, if i do crash, and die, im not gonna be around to
303 Pilotaydin : I don't know....i mean what kind of message would the aircraft i fly send, if it were breaking up?? The two worst things i know of are a fire onboard
304 VTBDflyer : I certainly won't second guess your knowledge. I have no idea what the ACARS would say, but I'm inclined to believe John Nance's word.
305 AT777 : When all these messages came up, how does this not bring up a red flag/ alert to someone with AF? I would think that if a plane sends 2-3 messages in
306 Post contains links NAV20 : A bit more information here:- "The official Agencia Brasil news agency on Monday quoted Brazilian Air Force spokesman Col. Jorge Amaral as saying tha
307 RFields5421 : John is very knowledgable, but he still has to play the TV speculation game. At times his suggestions come out very far from the real story. However,
308 EXAAUADL : Dont know about NTSB but he was a pilot for AS even as he was a reporter.
309 Dehowie : I think John Nance may want to talk more objectively rather than sprouting rubbish like that. Most A330's fly for major airlines. Most of those compa
310 RFields5421 : After looking through several stories - it appears the TAM pilot(s) saw the lights sometime between 0235 and 0300 UTC - within an hour of the plane s
311 Post contains links Aerobalance : Agreed, and from just this quote - But about 4:15 a.m. Paris time, Flight 447's automatic system began a four-minute exchange of messages to the comp
312 Klwright69 : Good thread! I watched the Mayday on Southern 242. The windshield was not broken to pieces exposing the flightdeck to the outdoors (at least not on th
313 Post contains links STT757 : The US has highly sensitive underwater listening stations known as "SOSUS" that were used to track Soviet Subs across the Atlantic and the Pacific, s
314 Comorin : Pilotaydin, (slap, slap!) get a grip! It's time for a good night's rest before you report for duty. You're lucky to be in a heroic and extremely safe
315 EXAAUADL : No evidence on SAA 295 but some thing it was transporting weapons for the war in Angola
316 Mir : Good idea, though if I'm not mistaken, most of the SOSUS nets are in the North Atlantic and North Pacific, so I'm not sure how useful they might be.
317 Sparky35805 : The outer pane of Southern 242s windshield was shattered,but the inner pane was ok.This was on the left side. Sparky HSV
318 RFields5421 : Sosus has been declassified for about 18 years, and the locations of the arrays is well known. Even back in 1979-82 when I was stationed at NAVFAC An
319 Post contains links Moderators : Please continue the discussion in part 5 at: http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...eneral_aviation/read.main/4431071/ Note: all posts added to this t
320 YULWinterSkies : Well, since you ask what we think, first, who is Keith Chapman? A random reader? What exactly were these 3 overshoots in YUL? I mean, by seeing this
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