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Delta Air Lines Launching Kenya Today  
User currently offlineJambo From Tanzania, joined Dec 2004, 247 posts, RR: 0
Posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 13664 times:

DELTA AIR LINES first flight to Nairobi Kenya Starts today. DL 34 is to depart Atlanta at 16.10 local and arrive NBO at 17.25 local tommorow. Flights are being operated by Boeing 767-300 and will run 4x weekly flights.

This is a welcome news for the tourism industry in Kenya.

I hear that it will not be long before Delta increase frequency/capacity or make the flights direct (as it is now doing with JNB).

If i am not mistaken, in 2007, there were almost 100,000 american visitors to Kenya. In addition, there is a good number of Americans also visiting Rwanda, Tanzania, Uganda, Zanzibar. Delta and its skyteam associate Kenya Airways will offer americans going to DAR, EBB to connect in NBO instead of going through Dubai or Amsterdam.

Nairobi is the home base of Kenya Airways - one of africa's leading carriers (partly owned by KLM). It is no doubt a very strong airline with decent product. Kenya Airways links following Neigbouring cities with Nairobi: Bujumbura, Moroni(comoros), Kinshasa, Lubumbashi (Congo), Antananarivo (Madagascar), Lilongwe (Malawi), Khartoum (Sudan) + many more.

East Africa is an upcoming tourism hotspot- famous places include: Masai Mara, Serengeti, Ngorongoro (Wildlife), Mombasa, Zanzibar (beaches), Mount Kilimanjaro, Gorrilla trekking (Rwanda, Uganda).

Nairobi is also the regional headquarters of many foreign organisations including UN.

Lets see how DL performs....Anyone can confirm loadfactors? ,,How are the flights doing in during the first 2 months or so?

155 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 13650 times:

I don't think this can be a 763. Great Circle Mapper shows ATL-NBO at 6999nm. Unless they are stopping somewhere like DKR. Anyone?

I'm guessing 77L if they are flying it nonstop.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineTWA902fly From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 3128 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 13636 times:



Quoting Brons2 (Reply 1):
I don't think this can be a 763. Great Circle Mapper shows ATL-NBO at 6999nm. Unless they are stopping somewhere like DKR. Anyone?

I'm guessing 77L if they are flying it nonstop.

It stops in DKR



life wasn't worth the balance, or the crumpled paper it was written on
User currently offlineKaiGywer From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 12251 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 13623 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I am excited to see this. My father has been to Kenya and Tanzania a LOT, and my brother is half Kenyan. I am probably going to NBO and possibly MBA later this month  Smile


911, where is your emergency?
User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 13568 times:

Thanks for the info. I think if they are successful on this route they would want to fly it nonstop with the 77L. How many more does DL have on order?


Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlinePellegrine From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2445 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 13520 times:

Congratulations are in order for DL, I like to see more US carriers moving into Africa. If only UA would get on the ball out of Washington-IAD.

Quoting TWA902fly (Reply 2):
Quoting Brons2 (Reply 1):
I don't think this can be a 763. Great Circle Mapper shows ATL-NBO at 6999nm. Unless they are stopping somewhere like DKR. Anyone?

I'm guessing 77L if they are flying it nonstop.

It stops in DKR

I almost dropped my heart! If they wanted a nonstop on this it would be carrying 1 passenger!

Do they have 5th freedom rights DKR-NBO-DKR????

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 4):
Thanks for the info. I think if they are successful on this route they would want to fly it nonstop with the 77L.

I don't know if there is enough demand for 777 aircraft, we need to see how well DL is received by the market. IMO.



oh boy!!!
User currently offlineTwolz2rn From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 450 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 13353 times:



Quoting Jambo (Thread starter):
If i am not mistaken, in 2007, there were almost 100,000 american visitors to Kenya

What percentage of that comes directly from the US? When I went in April (from CAI), I met a lot of Americans who were working/studying in various European/African countries.

When are they going to upgrade/replace the NBO airport??? That place is terrible!


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9423 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 13347 times:



Quoting Brons2 (Reply 4):
Thanks for the info. I think if they are successful on this route they would want to fly it nonstop with the 77L.

They will like first bring it to daily. Then upgrade to a 764 then take it n/s. Jst like they did with JNB.

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 4):
How many more does DL have on order?

for now 2. (ok 3 but 7108 should be on her way to Atlanta soon) 7109 and 7110 come early 2010. Expect Delta to order more 77Ls here soon.



yep.
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1882 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13128 times:
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Todays flight has been cancelled as Kenyan government has not approved flight.


The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineJambo293 From Kenya, joined Apr 2009, 12 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12931 times:

There's definitely more to this cancellation than meets the eye - "Govt. approval".... Don't see how DL officials would have waited until "D" day to get approval... with time the truth will be uneartherd.

User currently offlinePhollingsworth From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 825 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12823 times:



Quoting Jambo293 (Reply 9):
There's definitely more to this cancellation than meets the eye - "Govt. approval".... Don't see how DL officials would have waited until "D" day to get approval... with time the truth will be uneartherd.

Haven't there been issues with DL getting approval for this flight? DL probably applied quite a while back, but has yet to receive approval. Since the flight is loaded and approval could come at any point it is often best to only cancel flights as they would become live, i.e. within a day or so of scheduled departure, and accommodate the passengers as in IROP.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17504 posts, RR: 45
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12777 times:



Quoting Phollingsworth (Reply 10):
Since the flight is loaded and approval could come at any point it is often best to only cancel flights as they would become live, i.e. within a day or so of scheduled departure, and accommodate the passengers as in IROP.

The flight has been zeroed out through July



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12688 times:

Good lord. Maybe the Kenyan government was not happy with Delta's choice of aircraft for the route like Nigeria.  sarcastic 

User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4531 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12666 times:



Quoting Pellegrine (Reply 5):
Congratulations are in order for DL, I like to see more US carriers moving into Africa. If only UA would get on the ball out of Washington-IAD.

 checkmark 

Same applies to CO through EWR as well... DL seems to be the only airline starting new international service. Given CO and UA connections and O&D at EWR and IAD respectively either flight could work. I would think that it would be an easier flight to run from EWR however.


User currently offlineCO58 From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 51 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12628 times:



Quoting Cba (Reply 13):
I would think that it would be an easier flight to run from EWR however.

With what spare planes should CO be running these flights with? Maybe once the 787 comes online, but for now there really is no spare aircraft for CO.


User currently offlineJambo From Tanzania, joined Dec 2004, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 12613 times:

This is very sad news.
How can it be that the Kenyan Government has not given approval when the Tourism Minister was so much pushing for the flights to start. Sometime back it was in the news that Nairobi airport was not yet certified for flights to US.. then the minister came out with the comments that it could be big loss for his country.

Could Kenya Airways be behind this???

(I know everybody will pointing fingers at KQ ).
Anybody with more insight?


User currently offlineJfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8375 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12546 times:
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First USA airline to Kenya since Pan Am gave up the route to in 1991.

User currently offlineStar_world From Ireland, joined Jun 2001, 1234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12520 times:



Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 12):
Good lord. Maybe the Kenyan government was not happy with Delta's choice of aircraft for the route like Nigeria. sarcastic

You based this on what, the fact that they are both countries in the same continent?  Yeah sure Do you have the slightest knowledge of the Kenyan govt or their policies?


User currently offlinePhollingsworth From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 825 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 12465 times:



Quoting Star_world (Reply 17):
You based this on what, the fact that they are both countries in the same continent?   Do you have the slightest knowledge of the Kenyan govt or their policies?

I think he was responding to my statement, where I had gotten the Kenyan and Nigerian issues confused. I have no idea if there are issues between Kenya and DL. Sorry about that.


User currently offlineCokePopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1184 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 12271 times:

Looks like it was because of the US government not Kenya.


NAIROBI, June 2 (Reuters) - U.S. carrier Delta Air Lines (DAL.N) postponed indefinitely on Tuesday flights to Kenya after failing to get U.S. government approval to fly to east Africa's biggest economy

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSL2101904120090602


User currently offlinePhollingsworth From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 825 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 12262 times:



Quoting CokePopper (Reply 19):
Looks like it was because of the US government not Kenya.


NAIROBI, June 2 (Reuters) - U.S. carrier Delta Air Lines (DAL.N) postponed indefinitely on Tuesday flights to Kenya after failing to get U.S. government approval to fly to east Africa's biggest economy

http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...90602

Oh dear, does anyone have any insight as to why? I haven't seen any other airlines contesting DL's application. Does the US have a liberal bi-lateral with Kenya? Is it a security issue?


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 12160 times:

Says it was the Dept. of Homeland Security.

Wanna bet there will be a head or two roll in Washington for this? When a US airline cannot get approval to fly to the family home of a US President because it requires "more study" something is wrong.


User currently offlineBA744PHX From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 337 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 12137 times:

Thats really irresponsible of DL to wait this long to cancel the flight without approval to fly it. I don’t believe this is the first time DL tried to operate a flight without government approval correct?

User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 12091 times:



Quoting CokePopper (Reply 19):
Looks like it was because of the US government not Kenya.


NAIROBI, June 2 (Reuters) - U.S. carrier Delta Air Lines (DAL.N) postponed indefinitely on Tuesday flights to Kenya after failing to get U.S. government approval to fly to east Africa's biggest economy

http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...90602

I see DHS is up to their old tricks again. What a shame. Here's hoping to see a DL bird grace NBO later this summer.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineMayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10427 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 12075 times:

Looks like it was very much a last minute decison, too, as dignitaries were all set to meet the flight on Wednesday afternoon. Leave it to the gov't. to study and study it and then at the last moment, make their decision. I'm guessing that it had already been approved by other gov't. agencies and this DHS decision came out of the blue.


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
25 Flying Belgian : Not the first time they put a "veto" on a US-Kenya operation. NBO's airport FAA security ranking, KQ's project to MIA denial and now DL to NBO... Seem
26 Mayor : Like I said before, it looks to me that DL actually had the approval but the DHS stuck there noses into it at the last moment.
27 Gilesdavies : Shame to see such a route being postponed at such short , Kenya is definately one of the forward looking African states and deserves such a route to t
28 Star_world : It's not a non-stop flight - it stops in Dakar. DL doesn't really have a lot of alternative aircraft lying around that it can use... 763s form the ba
29 Mayor : And the fact that there are not alot of spare 777s in the fleet. They're spread a little thin right now.
30 Gilesdavies : Well that doesn't make it any better their still likely to be on the aircraft for 14hrs+ with the stop in Dakar... Even though the 763 maybe a suitab
31 USAIRWAYS321 : Nobody is being forced to fly Delta. There is always a trade-off in life. If you want to fly on the newest plane with PTVs in every seat, go connect
32 Mayor : Be patient....give them time. IIRC they ARE working on getting the 763s up to par with new seats in business and possibly new ones in coach. It just
33 CokePopper : Your kidding right? Some might believe you. LOL.... As far as the DHS "Not approving". Maybe they know something we don't?
34 Post contains links CokePopper : More going on here then we know: "The safety of Delta's passengers and crew is Delta's number one priority," said Delta Air Lines, one of the world's
35 MaverickM11 : Why? Those passengers won't pay for those comforts. I'm not so sure--the fleet has almost doubled in the last year but the routes haven't kept pace.
36 Star_world : Your logic falls down here - by that measure DL, flying one of the worst quality products (I'm comparing them with BA, VS, KL, KQ - all of whom are a
37 Mayor : As soon as LAX-SYD starts, they'll be spread thin, again.
38 MaverickM11 : Uh...you just proved my case. You want to maybe reword that? I included LAXSYD. What's the total 777 fleetcount in July 2009?
39 Star_world : Not in the slightest. If the excuse is that "those passengers" - whoever "those" are, I don't know, won't pay for an upgraded, high-quality, wonderfu
40 Cubsrule : It's 15 now (8 ER, 7 LR). I don't know when the last time you flew DL was, but they are hardly "dramatically" (your word) worse than KL.
41 MaverickM11 : Shouldn't they be offering a noticeably higher price than DL if people are willing to pay a premium for the "dramatically" better product?
42 MPDPilot : There is a lot of talk of the quality of hard product on this flight. The first thing that came to mind for me was, what about before this technology
43 Star_world : I've flown KL 4 times in the last 3 months (once to NBO actually) and DL 6 or 7. There's a huge difference, seriously. AVOD that doesn't have half th
44 Cubsrule : It's not a question of "managing." If people are willing to pay DL fares for DL service, what's the problem? Neither DL nor KL offers AVOD (or PTVs,
45 Atlwest1 : It could possibly have to do with the fact that DL has the planes with the uprated product on some of there proven and most successful routes. I do no
46 MaverickM11 : If people are willing to pay extra for a PTV on KLM, then KLM should have a fare premium to DL on the same route. In fact DL should have the lowest f
47 MaverickM11 : The route is similar to ATLCPT in terms of demand and fare, so I don't think it's going to be upgraded or become nonstop any time soon.
48 Star_world : Don't get ahead of yourself - let's see them operate the first flight first KL most definitely do have AVOD (and PTVs, surprisingly) to NBO on the da
49 Jambo293 : Could Kenya Airways be behind this??? (I know everybody will pointing fingers at KQ ). Anybody with more insight? I very much doubt that KQ has anythi
50 Yellowtail : Yet my BA LHR-NBO next month was downgraded to a 772 from a 744
51 RwSEA : DL is actually the lowest fare in most of their markets, often lower than European airlines with longer routings. DL is not typically able to command
52 MAH4546 : Delta has also canceled the start of flights to Monrovia. So of all the new African routes that Delta announced - Abuja, Luanda, Malabao, Monrovia, Na
53 Jambo293 : I'd be very much surprised to see BA making a comeback to NBO with the 744... don't think its even foreseen in the near future.... But again.... the w
54 SeaBosDca : Who appointed you to be in charge of deciding for everyone what suitable amenities are? DL will fly the route (once DHS gets their sorry butts out of
55 Steex : I think you're looking at this the wrong way around. It's not about whether or not DL can manage to operate the route with a higher level of service,
56 Airbuske : This is very sad. I was so excited. Couldn't wait to get onto this route as it cuts travel time quite significantly. IIRC, BA will be flying the 744 t
57 Dlphoenix : 1) I would chose a DL 767 with a broken IFE over a brand new 10 abreast KL 777 every time I can make the choice. 2) DL can afford to serve most of th
58 Klwright69 : This is hysterical. Something tells me Obama could not care less about this. He has more important matters to tend to. Or is this your way of implyin
59 KQ787 : klm operates 744/744m daily morning flights on the ams-nbo route for the summer and winter schedule. the kq overnight flights have the PTVs. i am sch
60 Mayor : If DL is truly your last choice "every time" then you sure used them much more than you did KL, according to your own figures. Also, I think you owe
61 Cubsrule : On which days is that? The KL online schedule shows it as a 747 every day. It sort of begs the question-- which I don't have the answer to-- of wheth
62 Steex : I agree, but to take it a step further, it makes me wonder if DL should use greater discretion in marketing/selling flights to Africa before they rec
63 787KQ : Maybe the US government was not happy with Delta's choice of aircraft for the route to Atlanta. Yes. I fly Star and am sick of the crappy Swiss busin
64 AirNZ : On what logical basis are you seeing this as relevant? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but when did President Obama ever live in Kenya......thus 'fam
65 DeltaCTO : Very good point. It all depends on your priorities. Another excellent point. Question: before any airline OR any aircraft offered PTV's and AVOD - ho
66 Post contains links and images Star_world : Please count - KL was using the 777-200 on the AMS-NBO route when I flew them last: http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/KLM/KLM_Boeing_777-200.php Ok I
67 MasseyBrown : This is the argument Microsoft used to make in the 80's and 90's. Any feature that only the competition had was pure flash, unnecessary for the serio
68 Mayor : Except it is.....it's not NON-STOP but it is "direct" with a stop in Dakar.
69 MaverickM11 : LH has been one of the most profitable airlines for years, and it only recently decided to upgrade its IFE. Would you make an expensive upgrade if yo
70 Klwright69 : Thank you, my point exactly.. As if Obama would ever take this flight anyway?? LMAO
71 LipeGIG : For sure it makes the trip to other places of Africa not so convenient. But i'm sure, if this flight performs well, it could be upgraded to a 772 As
72 Cubsrule : They're using the 747 every day, now, though, which (at least in terms of the hard product) is equivalent or maybe slightly inferior to the 763.
73 DeltaCTO : Surely you dont mean that all DIRECT flights are not NONSTOP???? I know this is off-topic - I never had the courage to do this: A customer - who is b
74 DeltaL1011man : Delta wont run the fleet as tight as they did last time. When they just had the ERs they had to stop flights when HMVs came up. ICN and DXB saw cuts
75 LipeGIG : I have to say, very soon a 763 without PTV will be a very good way to have the people that want to pay higher fares (high yield) out of their aircraf
76 Cubsrule : Is there any evidence that entertainment options affect yield? I can believe that some other aspects of hard product (i.e. pitch) might, but I'm skep
77 SeaBosDca : If all else were equal, maybe. But Delta is offering unique routings that should substantially cut flight time for many passengers. I am sure plenty
78 Alitalia744 : By your logic, BA shouldn't be able to fly 763s around either right? BA should cancel all routes where they operate a 763? C'mon get real.
79 Gaystudpilot : Umm,,, wouldn't AF need to upgrade their own IFE first?? SFO-CDG, J class, four films playing continuous loop. Far from a world class experience. Tha
80 Cubsrule : Surprisingly, that's not the case. ATL-NBO was blocked, with the stop, at 18:15. ORD-NBO is 19:30 via LHR (BA) 18:50 via AMS (KL) 19:05 via CDG (AF/K
81 Viscount724 : As someone else mentioned, everything is a tradeoff. I expect many people would prefer DL's direct flight even with the stop, rather than the hassles
82 Ssublyme : Wouldn't be suprised if the fear by DHS is in part related to the Somali Pirates. They not too long ago vowed to attack U.S interests.
83 OA412 : There is next to no correlation between yield and IFE. In fact, there isn't really correlation between pitch and yield. Take for example AA who was u
84 Micstatic : Then why do you keep flying them so much? Vote with your wallet bud.
85 Pellegrine : Kenya and Somalia are far different. Kenya doesn't want much to do with Somali problems. Anyway those are problems of the sea not the air. The securi
86 Luckyone : And frankly better than LH, and equal to AF and KL. I haven't flown any other American carrier long haul but from a hard-product I can't see much of
87 OA412 : Based on what though? DOT data or just perusing online booking engines? Second, the "old" equipment you refere to is no older than (and sometimes you
88 Post contains links JM079 : Well, according to this article in flightglobal.com the new flights scheduled for launch this month by Delta Air Lines to Kenya and Liberia have been
89 Mayor : No, but in DL's terminology, I would know that all nonstop flights are direct but all direct flights are not nonstop. We used direct to signify fligh
90 Tu154m : Word on the street is Homeland Security/TSA has questions about the security about the African airports DL wants to serve. RIDICULOUS. The TSA lets DL
91 Mayor : That's why I think that DL was "ambushed" at the last minute by the DHS. They had the approvals they needed and went ahead with plans, but for some r
92 Post contains links FlyPNS1 : True, but I don't think a U.S. carrier is as big of a target in CCS as in African nations where many of the most extreme terror groups are well estab
93 RwSEA : True, although LH offers comfortable seats (with headrest and without slick vinyl), respectable food offerings, and pleasant service. Their planes ar
94 BMI727 : So why can't DL just rescreen all NBO originating pax in DKR on the way back?
95 Star_world : That's the definition of a last resort Less than 1% of my flights in the last 5 years have been on DL.
96 DeltaCTO : If my options are: A)763 with 2-3-2 configuration and NO PTV's and NO AVOD B)757 or 777 (3-4-3) with state of the art IFE and PTV and AVOD I will choo
97 OA412 : We've been through this about a million times. The seats are leather. You clearly want to believe otherwise. That's fine but it doesn't make the fact
98 102IAHexpress : In its search to find new places to fly Delta made big bets in Africa and Delta lost big. I guess you live and learn.
99 Post contains links and images Gilesdavies : Why should BA cancel all their 763 routes, they already have a good product... Unlike DL they chose to upgrade their long haul product on the aircraf
100 Cubsrule : But, again, why? If people will purchase what you term a "non-modern" product, what's the problem?
101 RwSEA : On this particular JFK-FCO flight, there was some sort of liquid dried to the seat in front of me as well as to my seat. The window shade opened, but
102 LipeGIG : In my view yes Cubsrule. For who the PTV matters ? People that travel frequently and focus on getting FF miles, upgrades. People that doesn't know ev
103 CODCAIAH : That's really an interesting analysis -- thanks for posting that. I was thinking something similar myself. I looked at Great Circle Mapper and saw th
104 SLCPDXATL : It fills a gap in US-Africa service because no other US carrier offers service to Africa.
105 CODCAIAH : That's a beautifully circular statement. "It fills the gap because it fills the gap." I get that much. No one else offers service from the US to NBO.
106 Pellegrine : Well I still hope Delta starts the route. US carriers have ignored Africa for far too long. I'm sure they'd undercut KL in price, that's the only edge
107 NorthstarBoy : First point, i somehow doubt that Caracas would be a viable transit point for people with possible foul intentions coming from certain middle east co
108 Lufthansa411 : It may be faster when actually calculated, but it does not mean it seems faster or more logical. If given an itinerary on BA to NBO, I'm sure many pe
109 Cubsrule : What you've said makes some sense. I'm wondering about hard evidence, though. For quite some time, I maintained elite status on a carrier that had ZE
110 Post contains links CokePopper : How about you guys start a thread of "I hate DL763's and here is why" and leave this one for info about Delta's canceled flights to Kenya. Back to the
111 Post contains links Airbuske : From one of our local papers - http://www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/...printVersion/-/fqsqgm/-/index.html DHS says Kenya is unsafe for Americans, the U
112 787KQ : If it is screening cost, the airline pays. If there are some offsite airport security issues, then the government pays. But if this is the case, then
113 Mayor : ??? Would you care to clarify this statement? There have been some snags along the way, but nothing that can't be fixed or hasn't been fixed.
114 MaverickM11 : I'm not really sure, because if you live in a city other than ATL with service to AMS, CDG, or LHR, it's probably faster to go via Europe. IAH-AMS-NB
115 Post contains links 787KQ : "Foreign Affairs minister Moses Wetang’ula summoned US ambassador Michael Ranneberger Wednesday to demand an explanation to the abrupt cancellation
116 Mayor : Here's part of a statement by DL, which would indicate to me that DL wasn't exactly irresponsible about this, as some on here have indicated. "Delta n
117 DeltaL1011man : ol as in 12-16 years? Jeesh......the NW 744s which are 20 years must be like gradmas to you. And 747 at that. takes money(read bad econmoy) and tryin
118 Steex : I agree, I don't think Delta was acting irresponsible (obviously impossible to know without all the facts). I am curious if the government indication
119 Post contains links Airbuske : Apparently US intelligence learnt of a possible attack by terrorists using RPG's. http://www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/606540/-/ujrakf/-/index.html Man
120 WorldTraveler : As with alot of situations, all of the facts were not known when the first flight was cancelled on very short notice. There has been some indication t
121 CokePopper : Yes Welcome to America, Because as a crew member, I am glad someone is looking out for me, my fellow crew members and our customers.
122 Airbuske : With all due respect, they aren't "looking out" for you. They're just playing Big Brother. If anyone is "looking out" for you, it would be the airlin
123 Cubsrule : It's actually faster to go via Europe from a lot of cities with zero (or very little) TATL service as well. Heck, ATL-DKR-NBO is only 1:10 faster tha
124 102IAHexpress : President Obama will not publicly show any favoritism towards Kenya or Kenyans. E.g. just ask Obama's aunt who got deported.
125 WorldTraveler : He can't break the law but he can and should expedite the improvement of diplomatic relations between the US and other countries - a priority for his
126 Cubsrule : Improving diplomatic relations (which I agree is a worthwhile goal, by the way) =/= permitting US air carriers to fly routes which are unsafe.
127 WorldTraveler : I didn't say it did. But there are clear differences between the understanding the Kenyan government has about their situation and what the US sees. D
128 Cubsrule : Why do you assume that this is not happening?
129 Brons2 : Yeah I live in AUS and doing a single stop trip AUS-ATL-LOS makes lots of sense, but when you have to make 2 stops to NBO I'd just rather go through
130 FLFlyGuy : And you would be mistaken. Conviasa and Iran Air offer weekly Caracas-Damascus-Tehran service. With an A340. Making it just as easy, if not easier, f
131 Cubsrule : I hate to be pedantic, but that's quite a bit harder-- not only is it longer, but it's also only weekly. Possible doesn't necessarily mean easy.
132 DeltaCTO : A lot of people prefer to have their connections early in their journey - so when they board the Delta 763ER in Atlanta, they know that plane is goin
133 MAH4546 : That's not an advantage. Connecting in the U.S. from international-->domestic sucks. In Europe, you don't have to reclaim baggage.
134 WorldTraveler : How different is the weather inside ATL and CDG? If you are connecting, you aren't going to experience the weather outside ATL. (please don't tell me
135 Cubsrule : Is that true even when the single-carrier service is markedly less convenient?
136 CALPSAFltSkeds : Based on this comments, it sounds like JV or virtual JV service between DL/AF/KL, CO/UA/:H and AA/BA may not be all its cracked up to be.
137 Brons2 : I think MAH4546 summed this up pretty well: Yeah reclaiming baggage makes it a bit of an ordeal. You don't have to go to NBO or LOS to answer the que
138 WorldTraveler : But again, this applies only to cities that have nonstop service to the US. Out of the cities in the US that have commercial service, a very small nu
139 Cubsrule : But what percentage of demand to NBO/East Africa comes from those cities that do have TATL service?
140 MAH4546 : I doubt its much less than 95%.
141 Klwright69 : In terms of international affairs, airport security, and diplomatic relations with Kenya, no one here has identified themselves as someone that intim
142 Mayor : You think it might make a difference to Obama's relatives, who still live in Kenya??
143 Post contains links Ssublyme : Looks like others are on the same line of thinking. I do expect the route to be approved and flown. Probably by the end of the year. http://www.globa
144 WorldTraveler : We consistenly hear people on a.net underestimate the size of small markets to foreign cities only to see DOT data show that there is a significant a
145 102IAHexpress : I'm not sure relations with Africa will improve much with an Obama administration, if anything relations may get worse than the previous administrati
146 757ops : Working in this 'market' I can assure you that the East African - North American traffic is mainly Canadian but in US terms the majority of the traffi
147 Post contains images Flying Belgian : Being used to African Airports, I'd be FAR more concerned about DKR's airport "porousness" than NBO's for instance. And DL routes a lot of traffic thr
148 Mayor : Well, then, you know more than DL does......................
149 DLDTW1962 : Ok... I read something a few days ago that DL was going to suspend some of its flights to Africa. They were forced to do so by TSA and the State Depar
150 Mayor : Well, Kenya, Monrovia, Liberia were at least three of them. I believe their spelled out somewhere earlier in this thread.
151 Panamair : Monrovia is in Liberia...so it's just two: Kenya and Liberia. Abuja, Nigeria is still going ahead from JFK via DKR. Malabo and Luanda were pushed off
152 Mayor : Oops, time to go back to remedial geography for me!!!
153 AirNZ : How, or why, do you see that? Are you aware that the majority of the traffic are not US-bound? Or, alternatively, more than DL is saying.
154 Mayor : Well, as much as anyone might mistrust DL or think that some of the things they do is stupid, I think it would be really stupid of them to have had e
155 Cubsrule : Of course, that does not answer the question...
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