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Mesaba (XJ) To Park 10 Saab 340s  
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3941 posts, RR: 28
Posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5886 times:

Mesaba announced today that Delta has decided to remove 10 saab 340s from the fleet starting this fall. 2 a/c per month starting in September will be returned to Saab. Mesaba cites a surplus in regional a/c with the merged airline, weak economy and decreasing demand as the reasons DL is taking these steps. This brings the saab fleet down to 39 and the total fleet to 99. No word on any job losses, but this just might put us over the edge as far as pilot staffing goes.

[Edited 2009-06-03 15:09:01]

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJA From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5725 times:

This would explain why XJ withdrew their EAS bid for HOT, ELD, JBR, HRO, OWB, and MKL. They would have won the whole thing. That was six aircraft right there.

User currently offlineToltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3295 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5679 times:



Quoting JA (Reply 1):
This would explain why XJ withdrew their EAS bid for HOT, ELD, JBR, HRO, OWB, and MKL.

Looks like all of those would have been served from MEM? Saab flying is going to have to be cut someplace. I wonder if MEM will feel the pain? A lot of the flying there has an ATL alternative.

This was probably the easiest place for DL to get rid of regional capacity. It would be too costly to dump planes at a non-wholly owned. The Saabs have the lowest operating cost, but probably cost the least to turn back. Are any other wholly-owned regionals (i.e. Comair) getting planes pulled?


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3817 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5547 times:



Quoting Toltommy (Reply 2):
Are any other wholly-owned regionals (i.e. Comair) getting planes pulled?

Doesn't Comair have ramps full of RJ's not flying? I remember DL switched some of their CVG flying to Freedom in May.


User currently offlineTinpusher007 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5543 times:



Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 3):
Doesn't Comair have ramps full of RJ's not flying? I remember DL switched some of their CVG flying to Freedom in May.

DL switched ALOT of their flying to Freedom in CVG and shifted OH out to JFK to replace Freedom there.

Regarding Mesaba, if the Saabs were too much capacity for DL, why not keep them and fly the EAS? Isn't that like free money from subsidies?



"Flying isn't inherently dangerous...but very unforgiving of carelessness, incapacity or neglect."
User currently offlineATWZW170 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 904 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5515 times:

Just another dumb decision by DL. Pulling out of Columbus, MO, flight that were full just about every time...seems more like DL just does not like the SAAB. No on can say the CRJ is going to replace the SAAB on these routes, it does not make sense.

It seems DL is making the move to combine the DL connection carriers. A simple fleet should mean a simple integration.

Guess time will tell. I would not feel safe as a Mesaba, Comair, or Compass employee.



Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
User currently offlineToltommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3295 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5489 times:



Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 5):
Pulling out of Columbus, MO, flight that were full just about every time

I'm assuming you mean COLUMBIA, MO (COU). I hadn't heard DL was ending that service. Source?

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 3):

Doesn't Comair have ramps full of RJ's not flying?

Parked CRJs are different from rejected leases. Those planes could come back. Has DL rejected the leases on the parked CRJ's?

Quoting Tinpusher007 (Reply 4):
Regarding Mesaba, if the Saabs were too much capacity for DL, why not keep them and fly the EAS? Isn't that like free money from subsidies?

I'm wondering the same. Especially if the ground handling is getting spun off to a new subsidiary. That would remove the ground handling costs from Mesaba as well.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5439 times:

It seems like Delta had been slowly moving away from flying turbo-props for whatever reason. One would think this type of a/c would be perfect for some of the smaller markets served throughout the system ran by CR2 and 145s as those might be a bit expensive. For years they had been saying that they were pulling the ATR fleet and they finally did late last year.

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 5):
Just another dumb decision by DL.

I suppose you have information that they don't...



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5350 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Thread starter):
Mesaba announced today

I'm not saying I don't believe you...but where exactly is this announcement?


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3941 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5317 times:

Pilotboi - the announcement is on our company intranet. I'm not going to post the memo, but I've summarized the announcement.

Rumor has it that there is a major shift of saab flying SOUTH from the north. As they rationalize the use of DTW and CVG there are many markets that don't need the saab service. where CRJs can get the job done. Markets like ERI, ITH, CRW, CHO, TRI and many more that used to have regular saab service are seeing reductions and/or total elimination. Some other cities like TOL are seeing increases.

All the saab leases were renegotiated in bankruptcy and the first 10 must come off lease soon and DL no longer sees the need for 49 turbo props. Seems odd that they're getting rid of money making potential, but I have a feeling there is more to this story.

The worst part about this whole bit of news... is that XJ wasn't quick enough to get the news out to the employees. Many figured it out when simple research was done to learn we pulled out of the EAS bids and a DL spokeswoman was quoted as saying the reason is that the saab fleet is being reduced this fall. Once that hit at least the pilot group or anyone who frequents aviation blogs it spread like wild fire. I think the company had to hastily prepare an announcement. It appears that they weren't quite ready to share this news with the rest of us. More of that DL not talking to the rest of the parties involved. I blame DL, not XJ mgmt.


User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3817 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5282 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 9):
Rumor has it that there is a major shift of saab flying SOUTH from the north. As they rationalize the use of DTW and CVG there are many markets that don't need the saab service. where CRJs can get the job done. Markets like ERI, ITH, CRW, CHO, TRI and many more that used to have regular saab service are seeing reductions and/or total elimination.

I noticed CRW-DTW goes down to 1x in August. Is this the beginning of the end of the route?


User currently offlinePilotboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 2366 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5260 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 9):
Pilotboi - the announcement is on our company intranet. I'm not going to post the memo, but I've summarized the announcement

Thanks


User currently offlineCrjfixer From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5261 times:



Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 3):
Doesn't Comair have ramps full of RJ's not flying?

I have heard rumors of these a/c being split between XJ and 9E. Just a rumor but have heard it from more than one person.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5261 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 9):
Rumor has it that there is a major shift of saab flying SOUTH from the north. As they rationalize the use of DTW and CVG there are many markets that don't need the saab service. where CRJs can get the job done. Markets like ERI, ITH, CRW, CHO, TRI and many more that used to have regular saab service are seeing reductions and/or total elimination. Some other cities like TOL are seeing increases.

There are about 20 markets, including the ones you mentioned above that are getting rebalanced between DTW, CVG, and ATL. They are moving some more frequencies to DTW from CVG for some of the closer to DTW markets, and moving some over to CVG that are closer to CVG.

Cruise through the Sept/Oct. schedule and you will notice there are a ton of cuts out of DTW, across the board, not just Saab flying. Routes like DTW-FNT, DTW-YYZ, DTW-PIT that used to see a mix of CRJ, 76-seaters, and DC-9s are going all-CRJ. BUF is losing 45% of the seats in the market.

Remember that DL is cutting DTW-LBE, DTW-YKF, DTW-TRI, no more Saabs on DTW-CRW, DTW-CAK, DTW-ERI, DTW-CHO, DTW-ROA.

There is also Saab service being cut/moved from MEM. Like TUP.

Essentially, there will no Saab flying south or east of DTW after this fall. Essentially the only Saab service to remain in DTW is going to be to Northern Michigan.

Not sure what all is going on in the route planning department these days. I haven't spent the time to check out the MEM or MSP schedules.

I guess I'm not really surprised that they are getting rid of some Saabs, DL/NW has an absolute glut of RJ's that are going to be really difficult to return the lessor anytime soon. Plus, it saves the expense of repainting and new interiors for these 10 aircraft.

Too bad, the Saab is a good aircraft and once again here come the f-word.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5244 times:



Quoting Crjfixer (Reply 12):
I have heard rumors of these a/c being split between XJ and 9E. Just a rumor but have heard it from more than one person.

There are 2 Comair CRJ's being operated by Mesaba currently.


User currently offlineCrjfixer From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5218 times:



Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 14):
Quoting Crjfixer (Reply 12):
I have heard rumors of these a/c being split between XJ and 9E. Just a rumor but have heard it from more than one person.

There are 2 Comair CRJ's being operated by Mesaba currently.

200's ? How long have they been there? mabye not as much of a rumor as i thought.


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3941 posts, RR: 28
Reply 16, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5211 times:

I believe some of the Comair "spares" have also gone to 9E, ASA and Skywest. When I was in recurrent ground school mgmt was saying our a/c utilization was near 12 hours a day and basically no spares system-wide. At Comair... it was barely 5 hours a day because they had SO MANY spares with DL having shrunk them so much. It only made sense to send some of those planes to some of the other DCI carriers.

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 17, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5190 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 16):
it was barely 5 hours a day because they had SO MANY spares with DL having shrunk them so much. It only made sense to send some of those planes to some of the other DCI carriers.

The amount of Comair CRJ's sitting around CVG is mind-boggling.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9449 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5177 times:



Quoting Toltommy (Reply 6):
Parked CRJs are different from rejected leases. Those planes could come back. Has DL rejected the leases on the parked CRJ's?

Most of the OH (and EV) CRJs are owned by Delta and in the case of EV leased to them. Thats why they are parked.

Quoting DTW.SCE" class=quote target=_blank>PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 13):
Cruise through the Sept/Oct. schedule and you will notice there are a ton of cuts out of DTW, across the board, not just Saab flying. Routes like DTW-FNT, DTW-YYZ, DTW-PIT that used to see a mix of CRJ, 76-seaters, and DC-9s are going all-CRJ. BUF is losing 45% of the seats in the market.

I read on a form that the DALPA was told DTW was going to get alot more RJs. "its going to look like CVG a few years ago". I was hopeing it wasn't true.

Quoting Crjfixer (Reply 15):

200's ? How long have they been there? mabye not as much of a rumor as i thought.

2. Check widgetheads.net there were pics of the only XJ ever to be int eh wavy gray.

Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 16):
I believe some of the Comair "spares" have also gone to 9E, ASA and Skywest. When I was in recurrent ground school mgmt was saying our a/c utilization was near 12 hours a day and basically no spares system-wide. At Comair... it was barely 5 hours a day because they had SO MANY spares with DL having shrunk them so much. It only made sense to send some of those planes to some of the other DCI carriers.

DL has alot got a few EV and OO CRJs with OH now to. Its like they just switch them all around a few years.

Sad to hear the news. good luck to all the XJ folks. Azjub. Hope you turn out ok from this.



yep.
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3941 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5169 times:

CRJfixer -

We started flying the ex-Comair 200s in late March or early April. They're painted in the wavy gravy DL paint scheme, have new DL interiors and are ships 640 and 641. They appear to be flying more than just the "spare" role they were announced as. No ACARS on these birds easier, making getting performance/wt. balance somewhat of a PITA.


User currently offlineAirbusaddict From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 415 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5115 times:

This might answer my question. I was looking at flights out of FSD to the east coast, and the one daily Saab flight (the other six are either CRJ's, Airbuses, or Diesel 9's), is now a CRJ-900. Unless that is just for the 4th of July time period, it looked like it was going to be the replacment aircraft for that flight.


Finally F9! FSD-DEN 7-4-2011
User currently offlineCrjfixer From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5056 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 19):
CRJfixer -

We started flying the ex-Comair 200s in late March or early April. They're painted in the wavy gravy DL paint scheme, have new DL interiors and are ships 640 and 641. They appear to be flying more than just the "spare" role they were announced as. No ACARS on these birds easier, making getting performance/wt. balance somewhat of a PITA.

Thanks!

We could sure use at least 2 spares while we have 2 in the paint shop at all times....But no ACARS? yeah that would be a pain.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5026 times:



Quoting Airbusaddict (Reply 20):
This might answer my question. I was looking at flights out of FSD to the east coast, and the one daily Saab flight (the other six are either CRJ's, Airbuses, or Diesel 9's), is now a CRJ-900. Unless that is just for the 4th of July time period, it looked like it was going to be the replacment aircraft for that flight.

NW (and DL) has always swapped frequencies and aircraft gauge from schedule to schedule. Its always been common to see switches from Saab, CRJ, CR9, E75, DC-9, A319/A320 from schedule to schedule.

As AZJ said, the 10 Saabs aren't leaving until Sept, at a rate of 2 per month.
If you look at the fall schedule, you will notice a lot of fundamental changes that appear to be a lot more than just the usual seasonal frequency/gauge changes. It includes wholesale capacity cuts, and rebalancing between hubs.


User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2004 posts, RR: 13
Reply 23, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4905 times:



Quoting Azjubilee (Reply 9):
Some other cities like TOL are seeing increases.

Actually, TOL does lose a frequency in the fall schedule. I honestly like the schedule on the books they have right now. I would like to see a 22:00 arrival with an 08:00 departure but as long as we stay at 5 Saabs I'll be happy.


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3941 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (5 years 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4811 times:

My comment regarding TOL was based on the June/July schedule. I believe we go from 5 to 6 flights.

25 RB211 : It's a double edged sword. In a way glad to see the turbo props go, but now the problem is finding a ERJ135 type to fill the void.
26 FlyPNS1 : You won't find one. The economics of the ERJ135 don't work anymore. Many markets will have to fill a 50 seater or eventually face elimination. And if
27 RB211 : LOL Glad to see Gulf Coast family members. Who do you work for in Pensacola? If those routes don't work for the 135's then they just don't work. Think
28 KingAir200 : Sad to see the ten Saabs go, though hopefully the remaining 39 will stick for the foreseeable future. Always a fun airplane to ride on. Even in July t
29 KarlB737 : Any thoughts on what will happen with London, Ontario since it is "east of DTW".
30 FlyASAGuy2005 : There out there. Plenty actually...sitting in the desert in storage. I honestly don't see sub 50 seaters returning.
31 PSU.DTW.SCE : I made a sweeping generalization. YXU is safe for now. YKF is being cut though. There will still be some Saab flying to points East and South out of
32 Fghtngsiouxatc : I'm flying MSP-HIB-TVF on June 22nd and by the looks of the seat map so far, it's me and one or two other people. Pretty dead...but I don't think the
33 KaiGywer : Pick a seat in row 9 or 10 Otherwise you'll get moved at the gate anyways
34 Steex : Just a quick note, MLI has been all-CRJ for quite some time, they no longer receive the Saab from any of the hubs. I believe this summer MLI is mostl
35 Toltommy : Currently 4 saab. 2 crj. Goes to 6 saabs in July, back to 5 in August.
36 BatonOps : Looking at nwa.com in late September it shows ITH as all CRJ.
37 WESTERN737800 : I was surprised by this. I was hoping if anything that XJ would add some more Saabs. I'm concerned about the markets that get 2 Saabs per day. I have
38 Treebeard787 : There are quite a few markets that can't support multiple CRJs but that can support Saabs or other turboprops that I think NW/DL would be unwise to ju
39 Katwspotter : lol right? we got one last night along with a 9E Delta plane then obviously ASA had one in from ATL so there wasnt a single NW colored aircraft at AT
40 Azjubilee : Just an update to this development... the company has announced today that it will look to eliminate 100-110 pilot positions starting in August. These
41 Doug_or : Just heard the same from a friend who will be one of the early displacements. I suspect a lot of these cuts are coming not because DL specifically wa
42 Azjubilee : Not really... we've been overstaffed for 6 months, since 10 of the 15 DL 900s were sent to ASA instead. Then, they announce 10 saabs are getting parke
43 Doug_or : If the above was directed at me, sorry, I wasn't really clear. The second half of my post was in regards to DL choosing to get rid of SAABs (which ot
44 Toltommy : I'm pretty sure the original press release said "no MAINLINE front line employees would lose their jobs". But the word MAINLINE got pulled. The wholl
45 DAirbus : EV has two Comair aircraft in their fleet right now, ships 447 and 451, with no ACARS. They are only supposed to be in the fleet for one year so they
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